Best compact 4 Zylinder engine?

[Sm@ck]

Hello everyone,


A few friends and I are looking into constructing our own "fun car" for racing on track days, especially on the Nürbergring (maybe even getting a street license)

We are currently looking at several options. At the moment we are seriously toying with the idea of taking a "Smart Roadster Coupe" and upgrading the car.

We already have searched all the big (and known small) Smart tuners, and their current solutions for the smart simply suck! Even Brabus latest release (commercial release of Smart Brabus Coupe with 101hp) simply wont do. The claimed results are to be taken with a grain of salt, and to be honest I could overlook the power problem, if it where not for the crappiest automobile gearbox solution of the last decade.
The closest to our "ideal solution" would be that brabus V6 1.4 liter (made of 2 smart engines combined). However there are many problems with this thing!
1) One cannot buy it (and its not a money issue)
2) Even if we could buy it, I would doubt that this engine is any good. It would probably be a pain in the ass to maintain, and be hugely expensive, since it is not mass produced.
3) I dont believe any of the numbers Brabus released with the car. "those are theoretic numbers, imo" and I wonder how good the motor, dont want to repair/maintain the thing every day.
4) as far as I know, the gearbox is still shit and a similiar solution to the standard smart roadsters
5) I dont think in Daimler Chrysler they had a good inhouse solution thats why they resorted to fusing 2 engines!
6) The idea of this project is to get our hands dirty and learn about cars, engines, turbos, transmissions, track setup (and not drive finished products)

So the only viable option is to put in a "small" 4 cylinder.
Probably looking at 1.4 liters - 2.0 Litres (max) depends on the compactness of the engine. Our biggest problems will be fitting/finding the "gearbox". An "SMG" would be nice!

SO in lamens terms I want the 4 cylinder equivalent of the R26-DETT.
I need an engine that is widely available (mass produced), and has lots of tuning options availabe. So most likely I am looking at JApanese engines, because these also have extensive after market tuning available for there smaller cars.
Offcourse I will be looking at VW engines too, and natrually I have to consider engines of current available MR cars as the one in the MG-tf (from 115, 160) or toyota solutions. However ideally we want a different solution than the ones available in current MR cars. OTherwise we might as well not bother with our project and just buy one of those cars.

Anyway I would be greatful if people had any suggestions, especially regarding JApanese engines! and maybe even some American or UK engines that I am overlooking! I already am familiar with the product line of VW and Opel, and have made a small database with the essential facts, weight, dimensions, output, tuning products available etc..

There are many factors which will be important, right now we are just brainstorming. We are greatful for any input, links would be nice! Ideally offcourse wa database with all the worlds 4 Zylinders! .


P.S I realize that a project like this will cost somewhere around 40,000-70,000 Euros per car ( maybe even more), and I am not saying I will do it! I am toying with the idea, I can always buy a Porsche GT-3 later

[stracing]

4A-GE very compact little 1.6 litre
B16A or B, the civic type-r one. another 1.6 litre

or how bout the F20C? the king of 4 cylinders

how bout some bike engines? a few kit cars uses the hayabusa engine.

[Sm@ck]

Originally Posted by stracing 4A-GE very compact little 1.6 litre B16A or B, the civic type-r one. another 1.6 litre or how bout the F20C? the king of 4 cylinders how bout some bike engines? a few kit cars uses the hayabusa engine.

F20C, excellent idea we overlooked that one! That would be definetly intresting, and definetly goes at the top of the list! Of "ideal engines", then again building in a tranverse engine would make life alot easier. + F20C are difficult to tune. Maybe to be attempted at a later stage, when we have some expierence building in engines, for teh Smart Roadster Coupe

The bike engines, would be too noisy I think! I am not sure I can find enough sufficient information on that material. Then again that would be cool, hehe, but the car might be too heavy for it!

4A-GE link: http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20t...ne%20Block.htm

[Sm@ck]

http://www.smartsrus.com/evil_twin_z-cars.htm

Smart roadster with motorbike engine!

[Garretts_turbo]

one engine to look into is mitsubishi's 4G63 (turbo). stock, it puts out about 210 horespower. its been around for more than 14 years, lots of people have tuned them and they are reliable....

[jorge]

The engine in the Celica seems to be a very good one, and if you know well the VW range, maybe you want to try the 1.8 T, i think its a very reliable engine.

[nthfinity]

hmm.... used Saabs turbo of course, and tons of track-able performance. id highly recomend the 9000t from 88-91 with the 2.0. i used to have one, and i can only imagine how fast i could've been had it not seen the light of Detroit

IMO, its my favorite 4 cyl. FWD, and it handles predictable as well. there is a huge aftermarket for these cars

[Igorionia]

SR20DET
4G63
B16A
and maybe S2000 Engine

[Sm@ck]

The s2000 is not an option, way too expensive, and too difficult to built into the car. And Size and weight will still be an issue...
But the engine response of the s2000 is great! And thats what I would want! The only other issue is Torque, and I would have added a small turbo to the s2000 to increase the torque with out sacrifing durability too much, and engine response.

hmm the Saab, I am sceptical I will look into it, I know they are good, but the engine might be too big in dimensions. + Are there really that many Saab tuners?

Lotus announced the new Elise with a toyota engine, (and whats good enough for Lotus is good enough for us too)

[ae86_16v]

Originally Posted by Sm@ck 4A-GE link: http://www.club4ag.com/faq%20and%20t...ne%20Block.htm

Originally Posted by stracing 4A-GE very compact little 1.6 litre

Yes 4A-GE is great .

No, you might consider the 20v version. That isn't too expensive and has all the new stuff such as variable valve timing and lift control.

[brijoel]

wow no one suggested the 3sgte? amazing, these engines are right up there with the 4g63 in terms of ability to take big power. not only that, but the crank is forged and good to 600hp on its own and the rods are good for 450 hp for a goood while.... something the 4g63 cant come close to in terms of the crank at least. the 4g63, on the other hand, has HUGE head ports that allows for crazy boost on pump gas. the 3sgte has very well sorted ports and will the head will supposedly end up being able to be good for bigger hp once race ported.

4age's are always fun and can make decent hp, but you will be very limited in power production. if you want a super high revving motor that will still have some left in it, along with not totally gutless torque characteristics either, stick with the 2zzge. although, tuning engines that run on OBDIII is a PAIN IN THE A$$!!!

my final suggestion is to go with a honda b18c type r motor. crazy revs, almost 200 hp, OBDII ecu, and honda reliability......and im not one to normally endorse honda either. :shock:

[Caplax40]

Originally Posted by HardcoreSRT4 one engine to look into is mitsubishi's 4G63 (turbo). stock, it puts out about 210 horespower. its been around for more than 14 years, lots of people have tuned them and they are reliable....

Totally agree on that one. Do you know if they still have that crankwalk problem? Or was that just on the 2G Eclipse talon. This kid I work with had a talon after his VR4 got hit and he said he had a lot of problems with the crankwalk issue.

Other engines I would checkout (in no particular order):

1.) SR20DET (came in the Silvia and Pulsar/Sunny GTI-R)
2.) 3sgte (MR2 turbo of course and in the phenominal Top Secret Supra)
3.) And since you guys are in Europe what about the new Civic Type-R's engine? Don't know a whole lot about it but the old type r engine that was in the Integra (USDM) was pretty good with plenty of flexibility in the power band plus the ability to be turbo'd or supercharged was a big plus as well. Not a bad engine IMO. The US Integra Type-R is a great car just dissapointing that it's FWD!!!!! :cry:

[dutchmasterflex]

20V 4AGE!

[AMG E55]

The new Evo 8 4 banger

[caneswell]

Originally Posted by Sm@ck http://www.smartsrus.com/evil_twin_z-cars.htm Smart roadster with motorbike engine!

Yep would be my choice. Light weight fast and sequential gearbox! Then when you get bored fit a turbo kit!