Q&A Porsche discussion

[nthfinity]

hmm...
well, the ECU would control Fuel/Air ratios, and control the wastegate

and being chipped, im assuming that it would run a more rich mixutre, and allow for higher turbo RPM's higher in the rev range, which would cause more friction; and potentially more dangerous under top speed runs for prolonged use.

but as we know, Porsche ALWAYS leaves some room in its powerplants... but say the chip-tuning is off, and the mixture is too lean; thats where the damage would be more realistic...

basically, i think that if he's 50 or so more hp with the stock turbos, he ought to be fine; and the dealer is just out to push parts.... not to mention, most ecu's are made that they can be re-tuned on the spot, rather then have a replacement chip... im not perfectly sure on the 911 tho

[Wutputt]

RUF CTR 'Yellowbird'

I've some questions about this amazing car regarding a discussion in the WYST section.

• Was there a regular CTR and a Yellowbird version? And if so, what's the difference.
• How many of these cars were built?
• Some CTR's have air ducts on the rear 'shoulders'. What's the reason behind this, and why don't all CTR's have this feature?

[st-anger]

Originally Posted by Wutputt RUF CTR 'Yellowbird' I've some questions about this amazing car regarding a discussion in the WYST section. Was there a regular CTR and a Yellowbird version? And if so, what's the difference. How many of these cars were built? Some CTR's have air ducts on the rear 'shoulders'. What's the reason behind this, and why don't all CTR's have this feature?

i think lakatu can name u endless details on anything RUF

[Wutputt]

Than I'll wait until he comes online.

Happy new year

[Cigarette1]

Is it possible to import a 996GT3RS and drive it on public roads? I thought they weren't able to get them because homologation rules (same with the mk1) ?

[nthfinity]

Is it possible to import a 996GT3RS and drive it on public roads? I thought they weren't able to get them because homologation rules (same with the mk1) ?

are you speaking of the GT3 RSR, and GT3 cup cars?

the 996 GT3 mk I was a road car, as was the GT3 RS... plates and all. not to mention something about Clubsport models...

its all in PC index... just look up the model.

[Cigarette1]

Originally Posted by nthfinity Is it possible to import a 996GT3RS and drive it on public roads? I thought they weren't able to get them because homologation rules (same with the mk1) ? are you speaking of the GT3 RSR, and GT3 cup cars? the 996 GT3 mk I was a road car, as was the GT3 RS... plates and all. not to mention something about Clubsport models... its all in PC index... just look up the model.

I'm talking about the 996 GT3RS streetcar (carrra white + guardsred/riviera blue), Porsche didn't sell them in the US. I'd like to know why, I think it's got something to do with homologation rules for streetcar in the US ? Same with the 996 mk1GT3,they couldn't have that one either. And the mk2 GT3 Clubsport models, they also aren't allowed I think ? They all have order the rollcage and recaro clubsport seats seperatly, which still doesn't make it a real Clubsport...

I checked the central index and modeloverview but didn't find an explenation ops: ?

[nthfinity]

I'm talking about the 996 GT3RS streetcar (carrra white + guardsred/riviera blue), Porsche didn't sell them in the US. I'd like to know why, I think it's got something to do with homologation rules for streetcar in the US ? Same with the 996 mk1GT3,they couldn't have that one either. And the mk2 GT3 Clubsport models, they also aren't allowed I think ? They all have order the rollcage and recaro clubsport seats seperatly, which still doesn't make it a real Clubsport... I checked the central index and modeloverview but didn't find an explenation ?

ah, the US question... there are often several reasons...
1rst being marketing... its not as profitable to sell a low volume car in some marketsl. 2nd, crash and emssions regulations in the US are different then across the high seas.... and developemental costs to bring the product to standards across the boards when its only on the drawing board in one location can be deemed too high.

my guess is that a roll cage is not suitable for a crumple structure, and further engine tuning may not have flown for all 50 states at those points for those cars.

as far as marketing... well, it wouldn't be the first mistake a marketing devision has made

[lakatu]

Originally Posted by nthfinity I'm talking about the 996 GT3RS streetcar (carrra white + guardsred/riviera blue), Porsche didn't sell them in the US. I'd like to know why, I think it's got something to do with homologation rules for streetcar in the US ? Same with the 996 mk1GT3,they couldn't have that one either. And the mk2 GT3 Clubsport models, they also aren't allowed I think ? They all have order the rollcage and recaro clubsport seats seperatly, which still doesn't make it a real Clubsport... I checked the central index and modeloverview but didn't find an explenation ? ah, the US question... there are often several reasons... 1rst being marketing... its not as profitable to sell a low volume car in some marketsl. 2nd, crash and emssions regulations in the US are different then across the high seas.... and developemental costs to bring the product to standards across the boards when its only on the drawing board in one location can be deemed too high. my guess is that a roll cage is not suitable for a crumple structure, and further engine tuning may not have flown for all 50 states at those points for those cars. as far as marketing... well, it wouldn't be the first mistake a marketing devision has made

I agree with what you said nthfinity but would like to add a little to it.

Obviously the U.S. is Porsche's most important market. In the past they have sold half of all their cars in the U.S. and I'm sure that is the current situation. Since Porsche made the standard GT3 MKII available to the U.S. market it makes me wonder why they didn't do so for the GT3 RS. Certainly they could have found enough U.S. buyers that would have paid a premium to purchase the GT3 RS. So I don’t think that it is a matter of a perceived lack of market demand in the U.S. for such a car.

There really isn't too much difference between the engine and suspension setups on the GT3 vs. the GT3 RS. Therefore, I think that Porsche could have met U.S. emission standards and other requirements with the RS. The biggest difference as I see it is in the use of carbon fiber in the various structural body panels. The U.S. has some of the strictest crash safety requirements and it is therefore very costly to certify a car for the U.S.

My guess is that Porsche felt that due to their desire to keep the RS very low volume that they would not have been able to recoup the additional crash certification cost of the RS to allow it's sale in the U.S. and that the GT3 MKII would satisfy most U.S. Porsche owners. Remember that the 996 C4 is the highest volume 911 sold in the U.S. which to me indicates that the typical U.S. Porsche customer is not as interested in pure performance as other customers worldwide.

It’s too bad the 996 GT3 RS isn’t available in the U.S. as it currently has to be one of the most desirable Porsches to own.

[yg60m]

Just a question for st-anger : do you think that the X51 option (engine "tuned" to 381 bhp on the Carrera S ) is worth the buy ?? On several magazines I read that it is too expensive for what it brings

[st-anger]

Originally Posted by yg60m Just a question for st-anger : do you think that the X51 option (engine "tuned" to 381 bhp on the Carrera S ) is worth the buy ?? On several magazines I read that it is too expensive for what it brings

the 997S X51 is - when speaking of lap times and pure performance - as fast as a 996TT
imho a MUST HAVE for the "S" when u´re a sporty driver, of course also because of the PSE
and i think i can tell - ALL X51 engines are running at +/- 400hp and not 381

[Cigarette1]

Originally Posted by lakatu Originally Posted by nthfinity I'm talking about the 996 GT3RS streetcar (carrra white + guardsred/riviera blue), Porsche didn't sell them in the US. I'd like to know why, I think it's got something to do with homologation rules for streetcar in the US ? Same with the 996 mk1GT3,they couldn't have that one either. And the mk2 GT3 Clubsport models, they also aren't allowed I think ? They all have order the rollcage and recaro clubsport seats seperatly, which still doesn't make it a real Clubsport... I checked the central index and modeloverview but didn't find an explenation ? ah, the US question... there are often several reasons... 1rst being marketing... its not as profitable to sell a low volume car in some marketsl. 2nd, crash and emssions regulations in the US are different then across the high seas.... and developemental costs to bring the product to standards across the boards when its only on the drawing board in one location can be deemed too high. my guess is that a roll cage is not suitable for a crumple structure, and further engine tuning may not have flown for all 50 states at those points for those cars. as far as marketing... well, it wouldn't be the first mistake a marketing devision has made I agree with what you said nthfinity but would like to add a little to it. Obviously the U.S. is Porsche's most important market. In the past they have sold half of all their cars in the U.S. and I'm sure that is the current situation. Since Porsche made the standard GT3 MKII available to the U.S. market it makes me wonder why they didn't do so for the GT3 RS. Certainly they could have found enough U.S. buyers that would have paid a premium to purchase the GT3 RS. So I don’t think that it is a matter of a perceived lack of market demand in the U.S. for such a car. There really isn't too much difference between the engine and suspension setups on the GT3 vs. the GT3 RS. Therefore, I think that Porsche could have met U.S. emission standards and other requirements with the RS. The biggest difference as I see it is in the use of carbon fiber in the various structural body panels. The U.S. has some of the strictest crash safety requirements and it is therefore very costly to certify a car for the U.S. My guess is that Porsche felt that due to their desire to keep the RS very low volume that they would not have been able to recoup the additional crash certification cost of the RS to allow it's sale in the U.S. and that the GT3 MKII would satisfy most U.S. Porsche owners. Remember that the 996 C4 is the highest volume 911 sold in the U.S. which to me indicates that the typical U.S. Porsche customer is not as interested in pure performance as other customers worldwide. It’s too bad the 996 GT3 RS isn’t available in the U.S. as it currently has to be one of the most desirable Porsches to own.

So someone telling he has a GT3RS imported in the US and driving it on public roads = bullshit ?

[lakatu]

Originally Posted by st-anger Originally Posted by Wutputt RUF CTR 'Yellowbird' I've some questions about this amazing car regarding a discussion in the WYST section. Was there a regular CTR and a Yellowbird version? And if so, what's the difference. How many of these cars were built? Some CTR's have air ducts on the rear 'shoulders'. What's the reason behind this, and why don't all CTR's have this feature? i think lakatu can name u endless details on anything RUF

I think you are giving me too much credit here st-anger but I’ll try and address most of these issues.

First I went and reviewed the discussion in the WYST and most of it is correct as I understand it but let me add a little detail.

Was there a regular CTR and a Yellowbird version? And if so, what's the difference.

Well the term Yellowbird was given at the infamous R&T test by Paul Frere and the name just kind of stuck. The term is used in two ways, which makes it kind of confusing. First it refers to the original Ruf that Alois brought to the R&T test. That car is a one of a kind and is still occasionally brought out to show. The second way it is used is to refer to the G-series bodied CTR. I guess if you were to ask Alois he might say that the original is the Yellowbird and all others are CTR's.

Both the Yellowbird and the CTR are twin-turbo and they used the 4 valve heads used in Porsche's racing versions of the 911. I have heard that the production models of the CTR were different than the Yellowbird but I couldn't tell you exactly how that is. I have also heard differing accounts as to the extent of the lighting of the Yellowbird. Some reports say the bonnet and doors were made of aluminum and that the interior was stripped out. Others have indicated that the quarter panels were also made of aluminum and that the fit and finish on these panels was not very good…and so when production CTR’s were made they didn’t have aluminum quarter panels.

How many of these cars were built?

Sorry but I just don't have the time to research that but I had read it somewhere and 20 full CTR's sounds about right. Surprisingly to me since the Yellowbird has received so much attention.

Some CTR's have air ducts on the rear 'shoulders'. What's the reason behind this, and why don't all CTR's have this feature?

These ducts are referred to as NACA ducts. The original Yellowbird had them to increase cooling to the oil and intercoolers. However, they actually didn't work. ops: It was later discovered that the air from inside the engine bay actually was forced out through those ducts and so they didn't feed any air into the engine compartment. Therefore, customer models where created without the ducts. Instead on the customers CTR the angle of the intercoolers was changed and the slots in the rear bumper were added. I believe that the air flows in through the rear spoiler vents to the new angled intercoolers and out the rear bumper slots. If you have a copy of the old R&T test you will notice that the Yellowbird doesn't have all those slots but has a few slots under the license plate. IMO the CTR looks better without the NACA ducts. The same is true for the 996 Ruf you can order the car with or without rear panel NACA ducts. For me the simpler the look the better, I don’t like ducts, wings ect.

If you are interested in more details st-anger posted an excellent article from GT Purely Porsche on the Yellowbird. The title is Absolute Power and can be found at this link http://www.motorworld.net/forum/show...=261025#261025

Also check out this wonderful index that st-anger has spent so much time creating and maintaining. 8) There are a lot of other articles about the CTR there.
http://www.motorworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16472

[st-anger]

I think you are giving me too much credit here st-anger

....no i don´t, definitely not, i think we all know - at least I KNOW - that ur general knowledge on Porsche is up to mine

[lakatu]

Originally Posted by Cigarette1 Originally Posted by lakatu Originally Posted by nthfinity I'm talking about the 996 GT3RS streetcar (carrra white + guardsred/riviera blue), Porsche didn't sell them in the US. I'd like to know why, I think it's got something to do with homologation rules for streetcar in the US ? Same with the 996 mk1GT3,they couldn't have that one either. And the mk2 GT3 Clubsport models, they also aren't allowed I think ? They all have order the rollcage and recaro clubsport seats seperatly, which still doesn't make it a real Clubsport... I checked the central index and modeloverview but didn't find an explenation ? ah, the US question... there are often several reasons... 1rst being marketing... its not as profitable to sell a low volume car in some marketsl. 2nd, crash and emssions regulations in the US are different then across the high seas.... and developemental costs to bring the product to standards across the boards when its only on the drawing board in one location can be deemed too high. my guess is that a roll cage is not suitable for a crumple structure, and further engine tuning may not have flown for all 50 states at those points for those cars. as far as marketing... well, it wouldn't be the first mistake a marketing devision has made I agree with what you said nthfinity but would like to add a little to it. Obviously the U.S. is Porsche's most important market. In the past they have sold half of all their cars in the U.S. and I'm sure that is the current situation. Since Porsche made the standard GT3 MKII available to the U.S. market it makes me wonder why they didn't do so for the GT3 RS. Certainly they could have found enough U.S. buyers that would have paid a premium to purchase the GT3 RS. So I don’t think that it is a matter of a perceived lack of market demand in the U.S. for such a car. There really isn't too much difference between the engine and suspension setups on the GT3 vs. the GT3 RS. Therefore, I think that Porsche could have met U.S. emission standards and other requirements with the RS. The biggest difference as I see it is in the use of carbon fiber in the various structural body panels. The U.S. has some of the strictest crash safety requirements and it is therefore very costly to certify a car for the U.S. My guess is that Porsche felt that due to their desire to keep the RS very low volume that they would not have been able to recoup the additional crash certification cost of the RS to allow it's sale in the U.S. and that the GT3 MKII would satisfy most U.S. Porsche owners. Remember that the 996 C4 is the highest volume 911 sold in the U.S. which to me indicates that the typical U.S. Porsche customer is not as interested in pure performance as other customers worldwide. It’s too bad the 996 GT3 RS isn’t available in the U.S. as it currently has to be one of the most desirable Porsches to own. So someone telling he has a GT3RS imported in the US and driving it on public roads = bullshit ?

Anything is possible if you have enough money. I know the 959 wasn't sold in the U.S. for similar reasons as it wasn't crash certified. Bill Gates I believe owns a 959 that is here in the U.S. but I don't know if it is street legal.

It is possible to import "grey market" cars and get them certified to drive on the streets. So I guess I don't know enough to say either way. Sorry.