motor

mindgam3 · 10-12-2004, 08:34 AM

[quote="dons5"]like i said before the Enzo was tested as bein the only car ever that could not lap quicker with the tc fully off thats how advanced it is, it all comes from F1,
[quote]

That was one test and says more about the driver than the car. Im sure they didnt set the fastest nordschleife lap in the CGT with traction control on.....

The CGT uses F1 technology too, just because porsche isnt in F1 doesent mean it can make use of its technology.

and exactly, Ferrari could of made the Enzo go way over 400 compared to Macs 370 or as some seem to think 390 on the stock version.

If the could have done without compromising the enzo then they would have done. Bottom line is, it wont go as fast....

Common the Mac was built from the ground up as a "lets beat the top speed record car" u can tell by no rear wing but mostly by looking at its dimensions, its sooo small, its so skinny and its frontal area which is very important for drag is absolutely tiny! I saw a pic of it with a 355 side by side, i think it was only from the rear but it looked even smaller then the 355!!

?

Firstly, it wasn't designed primarily to be the fastest production car ever, it was designed to be the best road car ever, the top speed was just a bi product.

Its so small becuse it was designed for the road.... The enzo doesent have a rear wing either, at least not fixed, it has a movable one like the macca F1.

Ok Ferrari dominates F1 where every millimetre and every millisecond count soo much, u think they couldnt have absolutely destroyed the Mac F1 if they wanted too?? do u think there is some secret about the Mac F1 which makes it so fast and Ferrari cant figure out what it is?? of course not Ferrari knows what to do and what they're doing

If they could've beaten the F1's top speed without compromising on other factors then they would have.....

BMW make just as good engines as ferrari, and their F1 engine is debatably the most powerful in F1

McLaren Group, not just F1 have some of the best aerodynamicists in the world. Ferrari's are not neccesarily any "better" although this is a subjective area

If Ferrari wanted to, do you not think they could build a car with less drag, less weight and more power then the Mac F1 obviosuly they can, but with Ferrari its not about numbers its about the whole driving experience and passion of that Prancing Horse badge

If this if that, fact is they didnt. The enzo is meant to be a track biased thoroughbred and that it is. The F1 was designed for the road....

You dont think McLaren have passion and driving the McLaren isnt an experience???

and one more thing the Mac F1 was around 1 Million U.S. to buy which if it was nowadays would probably be even more like 1.5 - 2 million, well if Ferrari actually spent 1.5 - 2 Million to make a supercar dont u think it would be just absolutely insane obviosuly, but then they would have to sell it for 3 Million, or keep it at the same price that it cost to produce, like the Maclaren did and then make no Profit jus like Maclaren did, the Enzo prob only actually costs 3 - 4 hundred thousand and then sold for 650 and dont forget about all these wayy more tougher laws which are makin it harder to lose weight and harder to get more power

If this if that, probably this probably that, where are your facts?

The enzo is faster on track, the F1 is a better road car, performance in a straight line is fairly similar. The F1 has the highest top speed of any production car.

The McLaren is a 10 YEAR OLD CAR, and the fact that you're comparing the enzo to it in the first place says something.

Lets see if in 10 years the enzo can still hold its head against newer supercars. To be honest, i think not.

bmagni · 10-12-2004, 02:38 PM

Lets see if in 10 years the enzo can still hold its head against newer supercars. To be honest, i think not

we just have to wait and see... the only reason to compare the enzo with the mclaren f1 is the top speed, not anything else. its the only thing that makes it suitable for comparisson. if it wasnt for the top speed the f1 would be long forgotten by now... i know it isnt. but its not the great car many people think it is just for the top speed...

mindgam3 · 10-12-2004, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by bmagni

Lets see if in 10 years the enzo can still hold its head against newer supercars. To be honest, i think not

we just have to wait and see... the only reason to compare the enzo with the mclaren f1 is the top speed, not anything else. its the only thing that makes it suitable for comparisson. if it wasnt for the top speed the f1 would be long forgotten by now... i know it isnt. but its not the great car many people think it is just for the top speed...

yeah we'll just have to wait and see

Although i doubt it would have been forgotten if it didnt have the top speed. I mean look at the F50 - doesent have the top speed, but still is quite a car

dons5 · 10-12-2004, 03:41 PM

bmagni Finally someone who knows what hes talking about, thats soooo true, everyone knows if the Mac F1 never had world top speed record do you think it would of ever been as popular as it is now??? not even close!!!!! thats the only thing that made it so famous everyone knows it, the worlds fastest supercar (in a straight line) thats all the Mac has goin for it

and lets compare the Enzo when its 10 yeas old? well we do that with the F50 and according to certain tests it still laps faster then a Murcielago and crazy modified gemballa porsche

And i can almost garantee u the tc on the cgt is not even close to Enzo's it prob is really really good but not compared to the Enzo, but i could be wrong i aint no Ferrari/Porsche engineer/race car driver, yet

mindgam3 · 10-12-2004, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by dons5

bmagni Finally someone who knows what hes talking about, thats soooo true, everyone knows if the Mac F1 never had world top speed record do you think it would of ever been as popular as it is now??? not even close!!!!! thats the only thing that made it so famous everyone knows it, the worlds fastest supercar (in a straight line) thats all the Mac has goin for it

and lets compare the Enzo when its 10 yeas old? well we do that with the F50 and according to certain tests it still laps faster then a Murcielago and crazy modified gemballa porsche

And i can almost garantee u the tc on the cgt is not even close to Enzo's it prob is really really good but not compared to the Enzo, but i could be wrong i aint no Ferrari/Porsche engineer/race car driver, yet

Bullshit if the McLaren wasnt the fasest car in the world it wouldnt be known. Any self confessed petrolhead would know what an amazing uncompromised road car it is. It was never developed with 240mph in mind, it was designed to be a complete drivers car, for the road thats why the drivers seat is in the middle and there are no servos for the brakes, gear change or steering, all is directly connected. They could've put a semi automatic in it, and they did consider this even way back then it would've been the first in a production car but they decieded to go for a manual because thats what a drivers car should have. IMO it IS the ultimate drivers car and nothings gonna beat it for a long long time.

And as you said your no ferrari/porsches engineer (yet?) so i dont think anyone but the people who designed it will know. And even then they dont know how sophisticated the oppositions are....

SnakeBitten · 10-12-2004, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by dons5

umm Ferrari doesnt tweak and make different versions of F40 F50 and Enzo what are you talking about,

and why do you and some other people think the Mac F1 is the greatest car ever?? just because its top speed and acceleration are so fast because thats all it was made to do from the start with barely any regard for grip, handling, dynamics etc and especially price? like they even used i think it was 24 karot gold for better heat dissipation, u think Ferrari couldnt of done that if they wanted to,

and u dont think for 1 tiny tiny millisecond that if Ferrari made a 6.1 litre engine for F50 and a proper closed car it wouldnt absolutely rape the Mac? common even in its standard form with such a tiny engine and not a proper roof it beats the Mac on many if not most proper racing circuits, i bet it can still take on some supercars to this day ( i saw it kill a merci and gemballa porsche on that asian show thats really popular, but then again there results many times are really messed up cant trust them)

so in the End the Mac F1 in a way did win, it won in the game called "Lets Build a Car for Top Speed and Accel Who Cares about Price and all other Forms of Vehicle Dynamics", well good job Mac u did it u won too bad noone else to this day played such a stupid game, except Veyron if it ever comes out and to a certain extent Koenigsegg

You need to take a chill pill....This is just a car disscussion not life and death...Jezuz...I can just picture you like this

lol....

Didnt they make the F-40 LM???550 Maranello turned into the 575 Maranello.....The Testarossa turned into the Testarossa M...360 Modena and hipo version Stradale...Gee to me that sounds like an improved version of the same models.......Just remember the Enzo and other are barely beating or approaching some of the Mclaren F1 numbers it did on old tires, brakes, tech etc..."IF" the Mac F1 had current tires and brakes, which could easily be done by an owner, do you not see
what would happen??The Enzo beat it in the 0-100-0 by .7... Do the math...

I'll leave you to your "IF" game and Mclaren hate because its obvious you dont respect or like the car so it doesnt matter what facts or senarios are posted in its favor..Its just a one dimentional piece of overpriced shit....You win...please take it easy dont pop a blood vessel

Just_me · 10-12-2004, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by numerouno

Originally Posted by Just_me

.... The car havent been tested there, therefore CGT faster than Enzo on the ring. End of discussion

Let's wait until Enzo is tested on the Ring officially, hence you can't conclude anything about CGT being faster or slower based on above

as long we dont now the ring time for a F1 car, CGT is also faster than a F1 car on the ring

HoboPie · 10-12-2004, 04:45 PM

SnakeBitten, the 0-100-0 time is for the LM. With proper tires I could certainly see it competing, but the standard F1 is probably a ways behind the LM in a 0-100-0 test.

Also the 0-150mph times of 12.8 seconds for the Mclaren is from the Autocar test. There is no way a car that does the quarter mile in 11.6 @126 mph is going to pull a sub 15 second 150mph run let alone a sub 13 second time.

dons5 · 10-12-2004, 04:54 PM

about updating i was talking about updating there limited edition supercars f40 f50 and Enzo, i wasnt talkin about the regular line of cars, and F40 LM? umm thats a race car u fuckin idiot not a street car, u think just becuase it sais "LM" like the Mac F1 lm thats its road legal also? lol and about upadting the 550 and 360 and 456 well those were after like5+ years, instead of making a new model they improved hugely on the current one, and then after another couple more years build a newer model, makin a 575m after like 6 or 7 years is not the same thing as say a car being out for a year or 2 and then going wow its not fast enough lets add more power, the 360 had the same power from 99 till now 04 , same with the 355's line, same with 550 line, and same with 456 and 456m

SnakeBitten · 10-12-2004, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by HoboPie

SnakeBitten, the 0-100-0 time is for the LM. With proper tires I could certainly see it competing, but the standard F1 is probably a ways behind the LM in a 0-100-0 test.

Also the 0-150mph times of 12.8 seconds for the Mclaren is from the Autocar test. There is no way a car that does the quarter mile in 11.6 @126 mph is going to pull a sub 15 second 150mph run let alone a sub 13 second time.

Thanks for clearing that up Hobopie...That is impressive on the Enzo's part...Didnt know it beat the LM in that catagory...Hmmm..That is very telling....Time for an update to the tires and brake Mr. Murray

Im glad you see the disparity between the Mclaren F1's we get here in the States and what Europeans get...BIIIIGG difference...Thats why I disregard the Ameritech versions numbers that Don5 keep using...That versions comparatively pathetic performance is singlehandedly responsible for people thinking that the Enzo, CGT etc can destroy it...The .86 g and all those weak numbers were from the Ameritech version....

sentra_dude · 10-12-2004, 05:03 PM

Ok...I didn't take time to read all of the posts in this thread, because there's a shitload of hard to read writing from dons5. I'm sorry for criticizing you if English isn't for first language, but its really hard to read posts with no puncuation.

There is A LOT of mis-information coming from dons5...

Number one, the topspeed record. That was done with a completely stock mclaren F1, the XP5, which had the same specs as the customer cars. It had stock gearing, and stock tires. The only thing they did was raise the limiter from 7500 to 8500rpm. Just so you know, they ran the car both directions and averaged the speed to get 240.1mph...

The F1 that hit 231mph was at Nardo, and that was an early prototype, which had an early version of the BMW S/70 V12 which was at least 50-60hp down from the production car version.

As has been explained...the times that R&T set for the McLaren aren't really even worthwhile mentioning. They tested the car in 100 F heat, they tested a car ~500lb heavier than the European version, R&T sucks at getting good numbers, and they burnt up the clutch because they can't drive at R&T...:roll:

Common the Mac was built from the ground up as a "lets beat the top speed record car" u can tell by no rear wing but mostly by looking at its dimensions, its sooo small, its so skinny and its frontal area which is very important for drag is absolutely tiny! I saw a pic of it with a 355 side by side, i think it was only from the rear but it looked even smaller then the 355!!

I don't even know if I want to waste my time addressing this. All you do is spout out numbers and assumptions about the cars that have no basis...its just what you are thinking at the time. You obviously know absolutely nothing about the F1 if you think that's what its purpose was.

bmagni · 10-12-2004, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by mindgam3

IMO it IS the ultimate drivers car and nothings gonna beat it for a long long time.

why is it the ultimate supercar ??? cause it can make 391 km/h ????
i which way nothing is gonna beat it ??? cause in everything but top speed the enzo has beaten it...

SnakeBitten · 10-12-2004, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by dons5

about updating i was talking about updating there limited edition supercars f40 f50 and Enzo, i wasnt talkin about the regular line of cars, and F40 LM? umm thats a race car u fuckin idiot not a street car, u think just becuase it sais "LM" like the Mac F1 lm thats its road legal also? lol and about upadting the 550 and 360 and 456 well those were after like5+ years, instead of making a new model they improved hugely on the current one, and then after another couple more years build a newer model, makin a 575m after like 6 or 7 years is not the same thing as say a car being out for a year or 2 and then going wow its not fast enough lets add more power, the 360 had the same power from 99 till now 04 , same with the 355's line, same with 550 line, and same with 456 and 456m

Try this out...read with understanding.....Notice the ? after the F-40 in my post...That means, say it with me now, come on you can do it......I vaguely remember someone saying they saw a guy driving a F-40 LM on another board I was on so as the ? indicated I wasnt sure.

You know what after rereading your post, you really really have no idea what you are talking about...How old are you. I can tell by how easily you lose your cool your're probably still in puberty dealing with zits and braces and coming to terms with getting a woody around guys. Your reasoning is 3rd grade level at best...Sorry to insult the 3rd graders....They didnt make the F1 LM because the reg F1 wasnt fast enough..The regular Mc F1 was faster then the LM in a straight line because of the downforce on the LM. The F1 LM was made to celebrate the Le Mans wins...

mindgam3 · 10-12-2004, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by HoboPie

SnakeBitten, the 0-100-0 time is for the LM. With proper tires I could certainly see it competing, but the standard F1 is probably a ways behind the LM in a 0-100-0 test.

Also the 0-150mph times of 12.8 seconds for the Mclaren is from the Autocar test. There is no way a car that does the quarter mile in 11.6 @126 mph is going to pull a sub 15 second 150mph run let alone a sub 13 second time.

official mclaren numbers are a 1/4 of a mile @ 11.1s @ 138mph. So could be possible for a sub 13 second 0-150mph - i wouldnt be suprised.

SnakeBitten · 10-12-2004, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by sentra_dude

The only thing they did was raise the limiter from 7500 to 8500rpm. Just so you know, they ran the car both directions and averaged the speed to get 240.1mph...

The F1 that hit 231mph was at Nardo, and that was an early prototype,

Thank you ...Now that makes sence...Didnt understand how a lowly 300rpm is gonna make a car overcome that drag at 231 and mystically gain close to 10mph.....That 7500 to 8500 makes much more sence..The Mclaren hater wont ever see the truth...