Graywolf624 vs. SFDMALEX Fight Fight Fight!

[SFDMALEX]

Sopranos is on, gotta go.

[graywolf624]

hope you realize that K1 is a kickboxing league, maybe you meant pride. There is no wrestling in K1.

I meant pride. From my understanding they are owned by K1.

If you take me to the ground Ill still try to punch my way out. You as a wrestler are taught in to wrestle with wrestlers, not someone who is going to throw elbows, to your head or punch you. How many times you see in UFC that one gets thrown to the ground and still throws a ton of punches on the wrester, whilst the other has prolly as much an idea about wrestiling as myself.

If its hurting the wrestler he controls the hands so it cant happen. Its really quite simple.

I bet I can go to a wrestling school/gym and in a week combined with what I already know about striking have enough to beat a good wrestler...

Wow.. Just wow.. .. lets just put it like this.. NO.. Not even close. As a former wrestling coach as well as wrestler Im going to tell you straight up its going to take you a lot more then a week to get up to speed. Maybe a few months you can make it a fight.. but then I could say the same about the wrestler with kick boxing.

[graywolf624]

Yea Drij showed you a vid to counter that few posts above.

A vid of a kick boxer that used one wrestling move versus a jiu jitsu guy.. What does that have in relevance?

[SFDMALEX]

Forget it man, I agree to disagree.

I honestly believe that most wrestlers would be destroyed in a bare knuckle fight against any heavyweight champ.

[nthfinity]

one punch is literally a 1/10th to 2/10th of a second..... its hard for anybody to dodge them, even if you know what to look for in body movement.

How fast is the fastest takedown? 3-4 10ths ? Not every boxer is George Foreman who has a granite chin, and isn't the fastest movements... but people like the Klitchko's... light on thier feet would make a lot tougher takedown IMHO, let alone coming in close enough without a punch on your temple while you are doing something like a fireman's carry...

Wrestling doesn't have a counter to blunt attacks mate, that is why they aren't mixed up together.

[ZfrkS62]

UFC can go either way. Really depends on the fight. Last night's bout between Diego Sanchez and Josh Koscheck was so gay i thought the Houston Fire Dept. was going to need to be called out.

But you watch the blood bath between Stephan Bonnar and Forrest Griffin a couple years back, and good fucking lord....

Most of Chuck Liddel's fights have been awesome.

granted it's not as brutal as Pride (which has just been bought out by UFC) and IFL but it has it's moments.

Then again i'm not a huge fighting fan :bah:

[bmagni]

that pride shit seems insane and out of mind...

[graywolf624]

How fast is the fastest takedown? 3-4 10ths ? Not every boxer is George Foreman who has a granite chin, and isn't the fastest movements... but people like the Klitchko's... light on thier feet would make a lot tougher takedown IMHO, let alone coming in close enough without a punch on your temple while you are doing something like a fireman's carry... Wrestling doesn't have a counter to blunt attacks mate, that is why they aren't mixed up together.

In neither case are you responding to the actual movement.. At 3-4 10ths or 2 10ths.. In neither case can anyone actually respond to the thrown punch. Once its thrown its already too late. Same with a shot. You look for visual clues to whats going to happen. A twitch, a movement of the feet. Something that gives a tell. Thats how its done. Phyically at a high level no ones going to block a punch or shot strictly by the movement.

The firemans carry isnt a throw. Im actually thinking very much the throws would be extremely effective versus a boxer. Almost every throw involves immobilizing the hands, and getting into them is extremely easy.. Getting out is damn near impossible. Thats why a wrestler can compete on his feet for a period of time. He isnt going to stand toe to toe.. but matches have shown (in the early days of mwa) that wrestlers beat the crap out of the kick boxers till they learn grappling. After that its all on the individual.

vovchanchyn vs dan bobish

A fat out of shape blob versus a good in shape person that clearly has been trained in grappling. The one guys shots are painful to watch... And the other guy is doing a fantastic job of whats called sprawling. He has clearly had a significant amount of wrestling training.

How about we pull out the vid of the beloved crocroc getting his ass beat by a wrestler. Randleman. Ironically who he beat using a grappling move in the rematch.

Coleman also comes to mind. Absolutely fantastic demonstration that crocroc has received months of grappling training. He wouldnt be able to block those moves if he didnt. They arent easy things to block.

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 In neither case are you responding to the actual movement.. At 3-4 10ths or 2 10ths.. In neither case can anyone actually respond to the thrown punch. Once its thrown its already too late. Same with a shot. You look for visual clues to whats going to happen. A twitch, a movement of the feet. Something that gives a tell. Thats how its done. Phyically at a high level no ones going to block a punch or shot strictly by the movement.

actually, professional athletes often have reaction times from .1 to .3 seconds... sometimes even less with such levels of sport.

not to say that .1 is enough to react...

[graywolf624]

actually, professional athletes often have reaction times from .1 to .3 seconds... sometimes even less with such levels of sport. not to say that .1 is enough to react...

It isn't in either case.. In very much similarities to Clarksons speed series where they talk about a driver reading the road before the car reacts. The same process goes through to a professional athlete. Clarkson actually tested Schumacher in that video if I remember.. and beat him in slapsys. It really is a case of reading the movements before they happen.. Otherwise unless your fighting joe blow your screwed. If it takes .4 seconds to shoot it takes .4 secs to block.. if it takes .2 secs to punch it takes .2 secs to block. If you start when the other person swings its too late. I didn't master that until right near the end of my career.. ITs the difference between a good wrestler and the people at the upper echelon. The same holds true for any other sport.

[gucom]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 actually, professional athletes often have reaction times from .1 to .3 seconds... sometimes even less with such levels of sport. not to say that .1 is enough to react... It isn't in either case.. In very much similarities to Clarksons speed series where they talk about a driver reading the road before the car reacts. The same process goes through to a professional athlete. Clarkson actually tested Schumacher in that video if I remember.. and beat him in slapsys. It really is a case of reading the movements before they happen.. Otherwise unless your fighting joe blow your screwed. If it takes .4 seconds to shoot it takes .4 secs to block.. if it takes .2 secs to punch it takes .2 secs to block. If you start when the other person swings its too late. I didn't master that until right near the end of my career.. ITs the difference between a good wrestler and the people at the upper echelon. The same holds true for any other sport.

makes plenty of sense... downside is, im completely wank at reading my opponent good thing im not in a competition sports

[SFDMALEX]

Sorry man, if you really believe that wrestling ability alone will grant you a win against a pure striker then I have to refer back to your own words and say that you are living in a dream world.

If what Vovchanchyn shows you call wrestling experiance then I know that much wrestling myself, I would do the same things as he did never having had any formal wrestling experiance...Its kinda common sense...Unless somehow wrestling is all about some higher learning ability :roll:

If thats your opinion, thats your opinion and I respect that...however I dont see this argument going any further, since we clearly have opposite ideas of what it takes to beat the fuck outta someone.

[SFDMALEX]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 It isn't in either case.. In very much similarities to Clarksons speed series where they talk about a driver reading the road before the car reacts. The same process goes through to a professional athlete. Clarkson actually tested Schumacher in that video if I remember.. and beat him in slapsys. It really is a case of reading the movements before they happen.. Otherwise unless your fighting joe blow your screwed. If it takes .4 seconds to shoot it takes .4 secs to block.. if it takes .2 secs to punch it takes .2 secs to block. If you start when the other person swings its too late. I didn't master that until right near the end of my career.. ITs the difference between a good wrestler and the people at the upper echelon. The same holds true for any other sport.

You gotta get rid of the idea that Im a dumb fucking monkey

What makes you think I dont know how to read a man? Shit Ive been in the ring enough times to figure out what one is going to do by looking him in the eyes

[nthfinity]

actually....

anybody in the zone can react in .1 seconds... there are tests to prove it even... but in a casual experience, of course Schui will have a slow reaction time... try again after a quali session, and i doubt he's out of the zone.

[graywolf624]

Sorry man, if you really believe that wrestling ability alone will grant you a win against a pure striker then I have to refer back to your own words and say that you are living in a dream world.

It has.. many a time.. in UFC and Pride. You continue to avoid talking about the early days of both groups when the strikers got their asses kicked by wrestlers. Selective memory maybe?
In every example youve shown so far Ive seen a wrestler more then hold their own on their feet. I've then seen the striker use wrestling moves to avoid getting their ass beat. If I train a striker for 6 months in grappling.. it will be greater then a wrestler alone. If a professional trains a wrestler in striking for 6 months it goes the other way. No one ever argued that one.. Mixed> all.

If what Vovchanchyn shows you call wrestling experiance then I know that much wrestling myself, I would do the same things as he did never having had any formal wrestling experiance...Its kinda common sense...Unless somehow wrestling is all about some higher learning ability

Its alot more difficult and no it isnt common sense. It takes hours of practice.. And yes it is some higher learned ability, just like any martial art. If it was that easy anyone could do it. 6 months will allow someone whos great at another thing to get away just long enough to do what they are good at.. They still wont win in the thing theyve practiced. National wrestling champions start when they are under 5, like national martial arts champions.. It isnt learned in a week, a month, or even a year. I wrestled for more then a decade and I still was learning things when I retired.