[SPOILER] 2008 Belgian GP

[faustini]

i think that was a though call to make, but i don't agree with the decision, i would probably make the rule more especific so it be easier to judge future sitiuations, and give hamilton and all the other drivers a warning to be careful in similar situations.

but worse than that i think was in the GP2 race where B.Senna was taken away a probable victory in the feature race.

it's just bad for the sport and fans, see the stewards become more "important" than the race, on the decision for the winner.

[mts6800]

Originally Posted by DeMoN Appeal will be heard after the next GP (if at all!!!) yes IF AT ALL. Regulations seem to say that they cannot appeal drive-through penalties. Since this is a drive through penalty awarded AFTER the race, mclaren stands optimistic though no one knows.

The Sporting Regulations:

16.3 The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident :

a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping ;
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds and then re-join the race.
c) a drop of ten grid positions at the driver’s next Event.

However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 25 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concerned.

Personally I hope they hear the appeal as it will serve to settle the issue; however, reading the Sporting Regulations would indicate that McLaren's optimism may be a bit 'optimistic'.

Article 16.4b) talks about serving the penalty, i.e. within 3 laps, no work on the car while the penalty is served, etc.

The stewards would have discounted Lewis' position when he left the track since his position is why he left the track. I have no idea what data was available to the stewards to arrive at their conclusion, we may never know but we do know that the stewards decided that Lewis gained an advangtage. With such a close call the smart thing would have been to let Kimi have the next corner and then attack.

[mts6800]

Originally Posted by faustini it's just bad for the sport and fans, see the stewards become more "important" than the race, on the decision for the winner.

The stewards aren't more important than the race and they don't "decide" the winner. They enforce the rules. There has long been a call for having "professional stewards" that go to all the races and are more knowledgeable than the host country's stewards. Penalties or disqualifications after the end of the race are unavoidable.

[SHIZL]

The FIA’s International Court of Appeal has thrown out McLaren’s case against Lewis Hamilton’s recent Belgian Grand Prix penalty on the grounds that their appeal was inadmissible.

Hamilton had 25 seconds added to his Spa race time for gaining an advantage by cutting a chicane whilst fighting Ferrari’s Kimi Raikkonen for the lead. This was given in place of a drive-through penalty, as the incident occurred late in the race, and drive-throughs are not susceptible to appeal under the International Sporting Code.

McLaren had appealed the stewards' decision, which saw Hamilton drop from first to third in the Belgian results, on the grounds that their driver had relinquished the lead back to Raikkonen immediately following the incident in order to negate any advantage. They also cited the fact that on two occasions race control had told the team that Hamilton’s conduct appeared to be within the rules.

However, the Court rejected McLaren’s right to appeal, citing Paragraph 5 of Article 152 of the International Sporting Code, which states: “Penalties of driving through or stopping in pit lanes together with certain penalties specified in FIA Championship regulations where this is expressly stated, are not susceptible to appeal.”

The Court's decision means Hamilton’s championship lead remains at just a single point over Ferrari’s Felipe Massa, who inherited the victory at Spa.
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/9/8417.html

[Mattk]

To be honest, I think it would have been a good idea to have held the appeal to quell disputes. But the rules are the rules.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

Now just how much did Ferrari have to pay for this "decision"..? Took a full day to get to it, so they must have negotiated hard.

Same when the penalty was initially handed out - two hours AFTER THE RACE??? During a race this happens within 10 minutes..... Lewis wouldn't have been on the top podium spot when everything would have gone right.

But again, i guess Ferrari needed to negotiate for the penalty (hence an "undisputable" drive-through).

F1 seems rigged like the Thai government lottery used to be. I seriously hope for a Ferrari double-engine-failure in Singapore, and Lewis winning it. Gosh and i used to be a Ferrari fan.........

Thanh

[Mattk]

1. If the race is over, you can afford to take your time. The trophy presentation is for TV and Ecclestone would not have wanted any stewards' inquiries to cause any delay.
2. Things take time to process. This is not the weekly short appeals court for summary convictions. Besides, the news report was only a day after the hearing. Seems pretty pretty efficient to me.
3. Where is the evidence Ferrari was even involved in this whole process? From start to finish, it has been McLaren v FIA.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

Of course it was McLaren vs. FIA.... but has anyone seen the back-end? How come the move (short-cutting the chicane, then letting Raikkonen overtake again) is OK'ed TWICE at first and then, suddenly and two hours later, Lewis is penalized with an "undisputable" drive-through?

Could it not be that Ferrari complained loud and long enough (or simply handed over enough cash) at FIA to have them change their mind (see previous "OK" for the move), now that Raikkonen did not finish and they surely didn't want Lewis to get too big a points advantage?

Someone said "FIA" stands for "Ferrari Instant Assistance". Not my words, but the more you look a tthings, the more it appears tro be true.

Don't get me wrong - i like Lewis for a couple of reasons (bloody good race driver, handsome as heck and first black driver on top of it all) but i watch F1 to see the best RACER win. Not to hear in the news for whom some judge has decided. I don't mind that bes RACER to sit in a McLaren, a Ferrari or a Force India car, as long as he won by driving his distance faster than anyone else.

Best regards....

Thanh

[Thanh-BKK]

And here we got it..... according to German newspaper "Bild":

"In einem irren Finale gewinnt Lewis Hamilton zunächst den Großen Preis von Belgien. Doch nach einem Protest von Ferrari wird ihm der Sieg später aberkannt"

"At first, Lewis Hamilton wins the Belgian Grand Prix in a crazy final. BUT AFTER A PROTEST FROM FERRARI HIS VICTORY IS DENIED LATER"

........

Thanh

[styla21]

Thanh, what's your beef? Of course Ferrari were going to protest - they felt Kimi had been hard-done by Lewis's move.
The FIA has the dispute with Mclaren, which is ultimately resolved in court yesterday.

Are you male or female? Commenting on Lewis Hamilton being "handsome" is... strange?

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

I replied to Mattk's question "where is the evidence that Ferrari was even involved in the whole process". Until now i didn't have such evidence - but suddenly there it is in the German news. So FIA first said "the move was ok as per the rules", then Ferrari protests, and of course Ferrari gets their way and now we see what happened.

Michael Schumacher pulling a similar stunt (and NOT letting his opponent pass again!) and NOT getting any form of penalty says it all, doesn't it?

I am male and gay. Any other questions about why i find Lewis to be the most handsome of all F1 drivers? If Narain would still be driving he'd be "the one".

Regards....

Thanh

[styla21]

Originally Posted by Thanh-BKK Hi I replied to Mattk's question "where is the evidence that Ferrari was even involved in the whole process". Until now i didn't have such evidence - but suddenly there it is in the German news. So FIA first said "the move was ok as per the rules", then Ferrari protests, and of course Ferrari gets their way and now we see what happened. Michael Schumacher pulling a similar stunt (and NOT letting his opponent pass again!) and NOT getting any form of penalty says it all, doesn't it? I am male and gay. Any other questions about why i find Lewis to be the most handsome of all F1 drivers? If Narain would still be driving he'd be "the one". Regards.... Thanh

Haha. Well that explains it.
On topic: I find the Ferrari hating old and tiresome. There is no benefit for the FIA to extend privilege or exception to Ferrari. They do not control F1, the FIA, nor do they have relations to CVC the majority owner of the commercial rights of F1.

Using examples from years ago is irrelevant. As long as there is continuum throughout each season, which there has been, there is little room for outcry.

Btw: Pokiou got banned? I wondered why the Mclaren fan-boy team had died down a little. Is he to be resurrected?

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello again.

I am NOT a McLaren fanboy. I am a Lewis fanboy. My favourite TEAM is still, believe it or not, Ferrari. Still i don't like any team, and be it my favourite, to be favoured by FIA. I rather have an underdog win than my favourite "bumped" to top spot.

And it all started with Michael Schumacher, by the way - i'm German and when this "new German sensation" appeared in F1, i started watching the races. That was when he drove for Benetton still. And when he switched to Ferrari, that first disastrous season.... oh my, ask my ex-BF about me getting up in the middle of the night to watch the overseas races, Schu being out in the first couple of laps with yet another engine blowing up on him and me still glued to the screen...... cheering the OTHER Ferrari

Personally i think Schu is an arrogant a-hole but he's a superb driver, in any car. Stick him in a Force India and they will be world champion in a couple of seasons. Which by the way i would welcome - i like small teams winning, bravo Sebastian!

But right now, Lewis is "my boy" (best driver on the grid AND a cutie!) and i can't stand him being penalized in order to push another team to the top. Let's see - my prediction is that he (Lewis) will lose the chamionship by a point or two again due to some BS decision by some race "officials".

Best regards.....

Thanh

[SHIZL]

ferrari lawyers were there the last two days

[styla21]

Originally Posted by SHIZL ferrari lawyers were there the last two days

Proof? I wasn't aware of that.