motor

SFDMALEX · 12-21-2005, 08:06 PM

I really dont undersand how Galgenkopf exit speed is the F430 is slower then the Modenas, and the CS is even slower then that....I mean really...... :roll:

HOnestly with the information you gave above I will no longer take anything SA seriously.

SFDMALEX · 12-21-2005, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by dani_d_mas

The Nürburgring is a very variable racetrack... may be there was some humidity, or it was dry and sunny when the Modena was tested, I don't know. For sure makes you wonder...

Indeed, if all of the above have such a major impact on times then are all of the Nordscheleife times even relivant?

Withouht consitancy its pointless if you ask me. Its one thing on a short track, but a long one?....

ice · 12-21-2005, 10:45 PM

Im with you. The 'Ring, in my eyes, has always been just far too big with far too many variables each run to ever provide a solid standard between cars. Also, on a track like the Ring, neutral AWD handling (ie:Gallardo, 911 turbo) will be better suited than the RWD F430.

JoeHahn · 12-21-2005, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by SFDMALEX

I really dont undersand how Galgenkopf exit speed is the F430 is slower then the Modenas, and the CS is even slower then that....I mean really...... :roll:

HOnestly with the information you gave above I will no longer take anything SA seriously.

Obviously it was a typo - maybe 120kph instead of 140kph?

coloradosilver · 12-22-2005, 01:26 AM

Hahaha! What a POS. The looks are there (IMO) and the sound is there, but the car is a slug around the track (for what it is, or what it's supposed to be).

I'm sticking with my assment that the new Z06 is still the way to go for the performance orientated entheuisast. Paying 100K more for a ferrari that can't keep up is something that someone might do just so they can say "Hey, I own an f430".

For the biggest performance value in the maret, the new z06 can't be beat.

F-430, What a joke.

bmagni · 12-22-2005, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by coloradosilver

Hahaha! What a POS. The looks are there (IMO) and the sound is there, but the car is a slug around the track (for what it is, or what it's supposed to be).

I'm sticking with my assment that the new Z06 is still the way to go for the performance orientated entheuisast. Paying 100K more for a ferrari that can't keep up is something that someone might do just so they can say "Hey, I own an f430".

For the biggest performance value in the maret, the new z06 can't be beat.

F-430, What a joke.

fanboy

you're based in just a lap around the ring...
i bet if the z06 comes to be slower in the supertest u'll start saying lots of different stuff

nthfinity · 12-22-2005, 02:01 AM

fanboy
you're based in just a lap around the ring...
i bet if the z06 comes to be slower in the supertest u'll start saying lots of different stuff

concider this:
nobody else has run the ring hard in a F430 with the CCB, and sticky tires... HvS was the first... and Ferrari didnt test (at least much?) there

the C6, and new Z06 was tested on multiple race tracks around the world, including several weeks at NS... and they published thier results for 7:42.9 hot lap. HvS im nearly 100% sure is going to try to come close to that time (mabey without getting so out of hand-jumping lol)

Im with you. The 'Ring, in my eyes, has always been just far too big with far too many variables each run to ever provide a solid standard between cars. Also, on a track like the Ring, neutral AWD handling (ie:Gallardo, 911 turbo) will be better suited than the RWD F430.

also, the GT 3 in 996 trim is nearly faster then the new F430 with RWD and 100 less hp on tap... cars tuned on F1 race tracks alone wont performn nearly as well on a bumpy track like NS.

|Nuno| · 12-22-2005, 09:20 AM

Obviously it was a typo - maybe 120kph instead of 140kph?

No typo. Check www.track-challenge.com (all the tests there are from Sport Auto) if you still have any doubts, and the scans section for the F430 test.

the C6, and new Z06 was tested on multiple race tracks around the world, including several weeks at NS... and they published thier results for 7:42.9 hot lap. HvS im nearly 100% sure is going to try to come close to that time (mabey without getting so out of hand-jumping lol)

Will it? I doubt it mate.

Since you mentioned the C6, wasn't GM claiming it'd do a 7:59 lap...? And what did it do when SA tested it? 8:15, right? That's a 16 seconds difference. So, either GM was bullshitting and the C6 is a "POS", as someone eloquentely put it, or HVS wasn't trying too hard. I'll leave it for you to decide...

My guess is that when SA tests the Z06, it'll do somewhere between 7:51 and 8:00 minutes. But for the 997 Turbo, I'm thinking somewhere between 7:49 and 7:44... But by then people will probably "remember" all of a sudden that the results can't be compared because the 'Ring is a huge track with such variable conditions, and the cars weren't tested at the same time, etc...

I could be wrong, obviously, but judging from previous tests, I doubt it.

cars tuned on F1 race tracks alone wont performn nearly as well on a bumpy track like NS.

Now this I don't understand. If you were talking about the Enzo or even the Stradale, then ok, but the F430? Really, I don't know where the idea that Ferraris are tuned on F1 tracks comes from... Save a few exceptions, the cars are tuned mainly on the street, NOT on Fiorano. Why do you think the hills around Modena are so famous?

Fiorano, Monza, Muggelo, etc are just a part of the testing.

Just ask anyone who owns both a Ferrari and a (rear engined) Porsche which is faster, or more stable in the bumps. (Hint: the answer doesn't start with a "P").

So, in theory, the Porsche (because of the rear engine setup) shouldn't be that fast in a bumpy track like the 'Ring? But it is - how come?

Maybe the bumps aren't THAT important. Imagine that...

SFDMALEX · 12-22-2005, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by coloradosilver

F-430, What a joke.

I'm sorry but I cant think no differnt of YOU as a joke when you jump to such conclusions based on.....what ever the heck you base it on...Here is every single car mag proclaiming the F430 to be "the best card in the world" and then you call it a joke.

It's ok if you like to hug the Z06 nuts but give credit where its due. Calling your self an enthusiast and then calling the F-430 a joke is well....a joke

By the way I bet the Z06 will do better just cause this lap of full of bullshit and doesnt make any sense.

coloradosilver · 12-22-2005, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by SFDMALEX

Originally Posted by coloradosilver

F-430, What a joke.

I'm sorry but I cant think no differnt of YOU as a joke when you jump to such conclusions based on.....what ever the heck you base it on...Here is every single car mag proclaiming the F430 to be "the best card in the world" and then you call it a joke.

It's ok if you like to hug the Z06 nuts but give credit where its due. Calling your self an enthusiast and then calling the F-430 a joke is well....a joke

By the way I bet the Z06 will do better just cause this lap of full of bullshit and doesnt make any sense.

Easy there. I said that I thought that the F430 was a joke and your remark is that I am a joke? That doesn't say much for your level of intellectual ability here. Personal attacks I don't think are warranted or appreciated.

My whole point is that you can have a car that is 1/3 the price of the ferrari and get better performance. So far the Z06 has the ferrari beat in every performance test done. I don't think your remark about "every car mag says the f430 is the best car in the world" is anywhere near the truth. I can think of plenty of cars that have been built that are better. In my opinion, the Z06 is one of them.

If you can justify your point in how the Ferrari is better (performance wise) or give me a list of every car mag saying with quotes about the ferrari being the best car in the world, your claim may be validated, but I seriously doubt that you can do that.

I have already conceded in my previous post that the ferrari may sound and look better, even the build quality is better than the Z06. But where performance is the issue...the ferrari looses to many other cars. If we now factor price into that equation, the Z06 is the way to go.

RAMMIUS · 12-23-2005, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by coloradosilver

Hahaha! What a POS. The looks are there (IMO) and the sound is there, but the car is a slug around the track (for what it is, or what it's supposed to be).

I'm sticking with my assment that the new Z06 is still the way to go for the performance orientated entheuisast. Paying 100K more for a ferrari that can't keep up is something that someone might do just so they can say "Hey, I own an f430".

For the biggest performance value in the maret, the new z06 can't be beat.

F-430, What a joke.

The direct competitor of the Z06 it`s gonna be the Ferrari 600 , due to appear in 2006.

They have the same layout : big dispalcement, front mounted engines with RWD.

How can you compare a high displacement engine like Vette`s 7 litre with a 4.3 litre .
A little detail : 7 it`s wayyyy bigger that 4.3 , remember ?

I really like to see what you`ll say when Ferrari`s 600 will make the Z06 look slow and badly engineered

About performance numbers , take a look at Road&Track

Vette :

http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...data_panel.pdf

and :

http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...data_panel.pdf

wooooow , superior figures for the Ferrari , what do you know , hmmmmm definetly a conspiration .

RAMMIUS · 12-23-2005, 09:05 AM

The new Ferrari 600 will be bigger, heavier... and probably slower around a track

Would you like to bet that it`s gonna be faster than the Z 06 ?

since they have the same spirit

What`s the same spirit ?

Central mounted engine vs front , high revv (F430 490 @ 8500rpm) vs medium revv (505 @ 6300rpm) and way bigger displacement .
And let`s not forget the different transmissions.

BTW , did somebody knows how much downforce the Z06 generates at 300km/h ?

I really don`t see the same spirit.

LotusGT1 · 12-23-2005, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by SFDMALEX

Look mate, what is there to argue? I have every single BM vid that ever hit the net in my collection. Prolly about 50 cds, of full episodes. I love BM, but it doesnt take a genious to see that their driving is far from what a proper drive around the track should be.

It is good intertainment and a vague indicator of cars performance but thats about it.

However its not as bad as Top Gear.

As a reference for comparing cars based on performance both formats equally suck as they both are "vague" at best. Discussing which format is "vaguer" or suck more is a moot point. Both suck for objective comparing. It doesn't take a scientist to figure that out. And that was the initial point of discussion.

Originally Posted by coloradosilver

Hahaha! What a POS. The looks are there (IMO) and the sound is there, but the car is a slug around the track (for what it is, or what it's supposed to be).

I'm sticking with my assment that the new Z06 is still the way to go for the performance orientated entheuisast. Paying 100K more for a ferrari that can't keep up is something that someone might do just so they can say "Hey, I own an f430".

For the biggest performance value in the maret, the new z06 can't be beat.

F-430, What a joke.

Load of BS. The F430 does perfectly what it's supposed to do. It offers great performance and gives you an awe-inspiring vibe. It also gives you the pleasure of driving a Ferrari with all luxuries included. The package is great if you want to pay for it.

Z06 is a totally different car. New it's hard to beat on price/performance, but it does offer totally different experiences. Just as cool, but different. For arguments sake you could say it's a special version of the C6 whereas it should be compared to the upcoming F430 CS, but there's no point really.

If you want true performance go buy a second hand base car tuning the shit out of it. Built a track car if you want hardcore performance. For a quarter of the price it will slap the F430, Z06 or whatever you want to bring on in its face like there's no tomorrow.

There's no point in comparing a $75k Corvette with a $200k Ferrari. Different strokes for different folks. Few people will actually decide between the 2 and most people with those budgets will buy another car for daily commuting.

Silly discussion really.

Originally Posted by RAMMIUS

The direct competitor of the Z06 it`s gonna be the Ferrari 600 , due to appear in 2006.

They have the same layout : big dispalcement, front mounted engines with RWD.

How can you compare a high displacement engine like Vette`s 7 litre with a 4.3 litre .
A little detail : 7 it`s wayyyy bigger that 4.3 , remember ?

I really like to see what you`ll say when Ferrari`s 600 will make the Z06 look slow and badly engineered

Besides the flawed logic with comparing a big Ferrari GT to a more hardcore american sportscar the last sentence of your post really baffles me.
It would be quite a fucking disgrace when a $300k would be engineered worse than a $75k car.

That's like pointing and laughing how an Clio suckes because an S-class Mercedes offers more ride quality. Totally fucking pointless and a nice display of stupidity.

RAMMIUS · 12-23-2005, 04:29 PM

^^^ mate you really have an attitude problem

I strongly recommend a girl

BTW , next time try to bring some real argumnets , leave the rethorics aside.

Cheers

coloradosilver · 12-23-2005, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by LotusGT1

Load of BS. The F430 does perfectly what it's supposed to do. It offers great performance and gives you an awe-inspiring vibe. It also gives you the pleasure of driving a Ferrari with all luxuries included. The package is great if you want to pay for it.

You're totally missing my point here. I'm not saying that the Z06 is the better car. I'm saying that if you're strictly concerned with performance, why would someone pay an extra $150K for a car that can't keep up with the Z06. The only reason I can think of is so they can say that they have a ferrari.

I already conceided that ferrari has better build quality and, um, well, thats about all it has better of. But the point is that if the only requirement an entheusiast has is performance, they'd be a fool to pay that much more for a car that isn't as good in that respect.