Just drove the M5

[RC45]

Originally Posted by brembo Originally Posted by Sir_GT *sigh* Bimmer bashing again... Even though Mercedes, Audi, and Daewoo rank far worse in the reliability and customer satisfaction scale... LOL and since when did stating facts become bashing?? didnt the previous M3 have engine troubble??? and now the new M5 got engine troubble??? It aint that far fetched that they will screw it up again..... I know you like to pose in a bimmer dude, but you cant blame me for making that remark, with the track record they got of late with their M engines.... :roll:

brembo - such a level headed guy

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by Sir_GT *sigh* Bimmer bashing again... Even though Mercedes, Audi, and Daewoo rank far worse in the reliability and customer satisfaction scale...

since when does Daewoo belong in the same sentence as Mercedes, and Audi... in a topic about a BMW

:shock: :roll:

[dutchmasterflex]

^^^ hahha, i didnt even notice that...

bmw, benz, audi.... daewoo?!?!?

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by brembo Originally Posted by nthfinity Originally Posted by Sir_GT *sigh* Bimmer bashing again... Even though Mercedes, Audi, and Daewoo rank far worse in the reliability and customer satisfaction scale... since when does Daewoo belong in the same sentence as Mercedes, and Audi... in a topic about a BMW :shock: :roll: Well considering the look of the new 3 series the tail lights resemble something from Daewoo, maybe thats why he mix them up in a BMW topic.....

nonetheless... a korean car doesn't even come close to being anywhere near as good as a beamer in anybody's mind, except mabey looks... and thats just a subjective opinion

the 3 series may blend in with every other car out there.. .but at least they are sitll doing something with the Z4... something i like... and the coupe concept even more

honestly, there is no longer an Audi that is a direct competitor to the M5/M6 so i see no reason to bash it since the new RS6 is going directly after mercedes in terms of power, and retaining its BMW-ish handling... and winter surviving... also, the price bracket is going to be something else entirely.

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by insane Hahaha, that must have been fun. You should have cheked tho if he has the limiter moved by trying to take it over 250kph...

in the words of RC... "oh no, not the infamous BMW speedometer again" lol

[Sir_GT]

Originally Posted by nthfinity Originally Posted by Sir_GT *sigh* Bimmer bashing again... Even though Mercedes, Audi, and Daewoo rank far worse in the reliability and customer satisfaction scale... since when does Daewoo belong in the same sentence as Mercedes, and Audi... in a topic about a BMW :shock: :roll:

Why Daewoo? Ask RC45, he drives one

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Sir_GT Originally Posted by nthfinity Originally Posted by Sir_GT *sigh* Bimmer bashing again... Even though Mercedes, Audi, and Daewoo rank far worse in the reliability and customer satisfaction scale... since when does Daewoo belong in the same sentence as Mercedes, and Audi... in a topic about a BMW :shock: :roll: Why Daewoo? Ask RC45, he drives one

...and Daewoo is on a par with Benz and Beemer then? Or are you implying Benz and Beemer are now as low as Daewoo...

[Sir_GT]

Originally Posted by brembo Originally Posted by Sir_GT *sigh* Bimmer bashing again... Even though Mercedes, Audi, and Daewoo rank far worse in the reliability and customer satisfaction scale... LOL and since when did stating facts become bashing?? didnt the previous M3 have engine troubble??? and now the new M5 got engine troubble??? It aint that far fetched that they will screw it up again..... I know you like to pose in a bimmer dude, but you cant blame me for making that remark, with the track record they got of late with their M engines.... :roll:

Autoexpress actually did a little study in one of their issues with regards to reliability. They said that normally, magazines just count the number of complaints reported against a manufacturer, and then the one with the most complaints is ranked as number 1.

In that survey, BMW, Mercedes, and Audi were all part of the top 10.

Now, what Autoexpress did was compare the number of complaints against the number of cars actually sold. Basically how it should be done.

And guess what? BMW disappeared from the list completely, Mercedes stayed in the same spot (number 10) and Audi rose to number 4 (from somewhere around number 7 or 8) and Ford who was around number 2 in the first list actually disappeared from it completely.

So lo and behold... Mercedes and Audi were less reliable than Fords... and Bimmers.

Besides, if I wanted to pose, I wouldn't go for a 1-series, because it's too much of a family car. If I wanted to pose, I would've bought an Audi TT.

Don't get me wrong, I love the RS Audi's, but if you really want to state the facts, then here you go. Audi's aren't as reliable as Ford's, and that's seriously saying something.

[nthfinity]

well, sorry Sir gt... but complaints about a car means squat...

real reliability data is held internally and often shared with among the automotive world...

have you ever heard of TGW reports, or R1000's ?? or FMEA, or QS9000 or Six Sigma... all that has direct relations to reliability, and not only in the automotive world. i never.... not ever read a single thing into magazine reports of reliaibility, as they dont know squat... and base thier data of rubbish. JD Powers is nearly the same... the one thing they do somewhat correctly is 'initial quality' but even that you cant read much into.

in R1000's, and TGW's, Mercedes ranks best in performance (AMG/RS/R/M etc.) luxery brands in both catagories, regardless to what people read in magazines... on the 2006 models, time will tell.... but they definately have it together... oh, and Audi is ahead of BMW

[RC45]

^^ All I know is I have had a 1990 Lincoln Continental, not too bad for reliability - but had a large number of very expensive failures fixed under warranty - a 1998 Lincoln Towncar that was pretty reliable, but again - a numer of expensive warranty repairs.

Then came the 2000 Lincoln Towncar - again, never left me stranded so was pretty reliable, but a number of quite expensive warranty repairs werer done.

The 1998 Ford Contour has been prety good - but had the water pump failure, fan set failure and a couple other "normal" Contour failures.

The only Ford I had that wa bullet proof apart from some headlight bulbs was my 1973 Ford LTD Brougham.

3 spped column shift, 400ci land yacht.

Then came the Chevy Malibu, I mean Corvette Z06 - left me stranded a couple times because of the farging electronic column lock - but all the other failures have been just expensive warranty repairs.

So overall they have all been failry relaible - but fucking great big money pits with many, many expensive eletronic and system failures.

But the cheap enrty price more than made up for it - why pay Benz or Audi prices just so you can pretend to be a yuppy

I would rather spend the money on other shit around the house than a "status" car.

P.S. Oh - and the Open Kadett I had in South Africa was an extremely reliable, robust well built car that never faultered - ever.

P.P.S. - the Toyota Corollas were also super reliable - but the number one reliable car was the Datsun Pulsar Hatch - bullet prof.

[nthfinity]

^^^^^^
oh, i wasnt comparing Ford in the mix at all.... just strictly a comparison of Jags' R badged cars, BMW's M's, Audis RS and S's, and Mercedes AMG cars...

the numbers change quite a bit when you start talking the normal variants...

then adding Ford and Toyota in the mix... well, warentee work rarely strands more then a few thousand people

well... back in the mid 90's toyota had HUGE MASSIVE problems in terms of reliability... but not every toyota.

the 2005 taurus will prolly be Fords most reliable car for last year... at least = as good as the 2004 Mustang, and the 2006 focus... but well, thats for other reasons

those land yacht's had fewer things to go wrong... Six Sigma in action right there

[Sir_GT]

Originally Posted by nthfinity well, sorry Sir gt... but complaints about a car means squat... real reliability data is held internally and often shared with among the automotive world... have you ever heard of TGW reports, or R1000's ?? or FMEA, or QS9000 or Six Sigma... all that has direct relations to reliability, and not only in the automotive world. i never.... not ever read a single thing into magazine reports of reliaibility, as they dont know squat... and base thier data of rubbish. JD Powers is nearly the same... the one thing they do somewhat correctly is 'initial quality' but even that you cant read much into. in R1000's, and TGW's, Mercedes ranks best in performance (AMG/RS/R/M etc.) luxery brands in both catagories, regardless to what people read in magazines... on the 2006 models, time will tell.... but they definately have it together... oh, and Audi is ahead of BMW

I'm more than happy to admit I'm unaware of these R1000's and what not.

Do elaborate. I am genuinely, seriously, curious.

[ZfrkS62]

Originally Posted by brembo Originally Posted by Sir_GT *sigh* Bimmer bashing again... Even though Mercedes, Audi, and Daewoo rank far worse in the reliability and customer satisfaction scale... LOL and since when did stating facts become bashing?? didnt the previous M3 have engine troubble??? and now the new M5 got engine troubble??? It aint that far fetched that they will screw it up again..... I know you like to pose in a bimmer dude, but you cant blame me for making that remark, with the track record they got of late with their M engines.... :roll:

actually, this isn't really an engine problem. What happened was that high pressure line from the Vanos Accumulator, at the bottom of the engine starts to leak because of a poorly crimped steel braided flex hose connection. The line carries 140BAR (iirc from the conversation with my shop foreman) of oil pressure to the Vanos units. There is a 6 inch section of the line at the accumulator that is a flexible steel braid. The ends of which are crimped to the line. It is those crimps which are in question.

So unlike the S54 motors, with their con rod recall, this is not truly a motor issue.

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by Sir_GT Originally Posted by nthfinity well, sorry Sir gt... but complaints about a car means squat... real reliability data is held internally and often shared with among the automotive world... have you ever heard of TGW reports, or R1000's ?? or FMEA, or QS9000 or Six Sigma... all that has direct relations to reliability, and not only in the automotive world. i never.... not ever read a single thing into magazine reports of reliaibility, as they dont know squat... and base thier data of rubbish. JD Powers is nearly the same... the one thing they do somewhat correctly is 'initial quality' but even that you cant read much into. in R1000's, and TGW's, Mercedes ranks best in performance (AMG/RS/R/M etc.) luxery brands in both catagories, regardless to what people read in magazines... on the 2006 models, time will tell.... but they definately have it together... oh, and Audi is ahead of BMW I'm more than happy to admit I'm unaware of these R1000's and what not. Do elaborate. I am genuinely, seriously, curious.

i'll get you some more information by monday, or tuesday 8)

oh, and i wasnt trying to slam you... its just generally accepted that reliability is what various magazines say it is.

[callen]

what a great experience that would be! The m5 is such a great car I would die at the chance to get out and open it up! congrats dude sounds like the best day @ work ever!