Corvette C6 Topgear Track time.

[graywolf624]

Im in no way saying its a bad car. And if i had the choice of having a ferrari or a porsche, id take the ferrari every time, even though i know that the porsche will almost definately be faster. But thats not really the same arguement, ferrari and porsche are two marques i admire. I could never bring myself to by a corvette, however fast it may be....

See and here we are with my point about paying for the badge.

[Max Power]

Don't think in terms of performance numbers, (0.5 sec quicker), boo hoo, think in terms of sales, Porsche can live with losing out to a Vette in performance for money, but as long as they outsell it by 1000:1 in every market other than North America it will keep them satisfied. Because in the end, sales is what matters.

[T-Bird]

yes sales are what matters but what's the ratio of GT3:Corvette...
Corvettes sell like crazy in the markets they are available because they are such great machines and they are driveable if you put up all of Porsche to all of GM, GM rapes the shit out of Porsche in sales numbers in almost every market.

[mindgam3]

Originally Posted by T-Bird yes sales are what matters but what's the ratio of GT3:Corvette... Corvettes sell like crazy in the markets they are available because they are such great machines and they are driveable if you put up all of Porsche to all of GM, GM rapes the shit out of Porsche in sales numbers in almost every market.

lol, fair enough for comparing the C6 to a GT3 RS, but i don't think you can compare GM to Porsche....

And Plus, Porsche sell a hell of a lot more 911's in europe than they do corvettes....

[T-Bird]

well no shit they sell more 911's than Corvette's but that's too broad of a statement that's like saying BMW sells more 3 series then Audi sells S4's it's not a fair comparison by any means.

You have to compare direct compitition and in that sense the GT3 (not RS) sells alot less than Corvettes

[AlienDB7]

Just one comment on the "primitive" argument. Haven't you heard about the K.I.S.S. principle? Sometimes simplicity is the way to go. A more complex technology doesn't mean it's better, it just means you'll have to shell out a bigger pile of cash when things do go wrong, and they do eventually.

Just look at the GT40, it had a huge engine and it was reliable/powerful enough to beat the ferraris at le mans.

[mindgam3]

Originally Posted by T-Bird well no shit they sell more 911's than Corvette's but that's too broad of a statement that's like saying BMW sells more 3 series then Audi sells S4's it's not a fair comparison by any means. You have to compare direct compitition and in that sense the GT3 (not RS) sells alot less than Corvettes

Ok then, if you compare say the Z06 and the GT3, theres still more GT3's than z06's in europe.

Even so i don't think the original point is valid... GM is a mass producer, porsche only produce 3 different cars (4 if u include the CGT) with a few different variants, all of which are high performance exotics. GM is hardly renowned for high performance exotics...

[T-Bird]

since when are SUV's exotics? no matter who makes it.
Also I would call the Boxster or standard 911 High Performance exotics they are performance vehicles but NOT High Performance.

And it seems now you don't have to have a Z06 to play with the big boy track car 911 anymore so things will start equaling out and look at the whole world market for Porsche they would get defeated in sales of the GT3 to the C6 you have to realize that most manufacturers relly on the North American markets to survive now-a-days no matter how much you like to admit it.

so they should start worrying that's all I have to say.

[DMbaseball1604]

Of course GM is going to sell more corvettes in the U.S. because the Corvette is American..and of course Porsche is going to sell more 911's and whatever else in Europe because they are European..

However...if you are talking about sales Porsche is the most profitable car company in the world..and when talking about sales profit is what counts.

[mindgam3]

Originally Posted by T-Bird since when are SUV's exotics? no matter who makes it. Also I would call the Boxster or standard 911 High Performance exotics they are performance vehicles but NOT High Performance. And it seems now you don't have to have a Z06 to play with the big boy track car 911 anymore so things will start equaling out and look at the whole world market for Porsche they would get defeated in sales of the GT3 to the C6 you have to realize that most manufacturers relly on the North American markets to survive now-a-days no matter how much you like to admit it. so they should start worrying that's all I have to say.

I only put in the Z06 becuase you were comparing the whole of the corvette range to one derivative of the 911 - the GT3....

I never said SUV's are exotics. In my opinion the porsche cayenne is an exotic though, along with others such as Hummers. Just because they aren't supercars dosen't mean they're not exotics. For instance saloons in general aren't exotics, but I would consider the rolls royce phantom an exotic....

As for 911's not being high performance, well i would say thats a matter of opinion. If you compare a 911 with your average family car, I would definately consider it a high performance vehicle....

I think we should have a poll to settle this... corvette or 911?

[heath]

by primative I meant the following...engine wise its got a noise that sounds like a heard of raging rhinos coming towards you but as for the gearbox, how many ppl here have felt the vette gearbox? its not exactly a slick or by any means quick shift...its more of a soft hands gearbox, which I don't really mind anyway...but primative yes.

[666fast]

However...if you are talking about sales Porsche is the most profitable car company in the world..and when talking about sales profit is what counts.

Then why is it that the Cayenne is all they can sell at the moment? Last I read, 911 and Boxster sales were waaay down.

From Autoextremist.com

And then, there's Porsche. Refashioning itself as a company with a "diversified" product portfolio in order to position itself for the future, CEO Wendelin Wiedeking and his band of accountants turned Porsche away from its own heritage, traditions and history in order to enter the truck business. The plan was to orchestrate short-term profitability, with the added benefit of fortifying the company for the long haul so that they can continue to do what they do best - build sports cars. And on paper, Wiedeking was right. Porsche is ringing up huge profit numbers, and high-fiving is rampant in the halls at headquarters. It's great to be brilliant, right? Sure it is, except for one key thing: Porsche once was one of just two exclusive makers of sports cars left in the world, along with Ferrari. Now, Porsche sells more SUVs than it does sports cars. Wiedeking insists that Porsche can continue to do this with impunity, that no matter how many trucks they sell, Porsche will always be known for its sports cars. But at some point, the wheels will come off. Right now, Porsche sports car sales are down overall by 25 percent, with Boxsters down over 50 percent, just in time for the release of a new 911 this fall. Porsche was once known as one of the world's great builders of racing cars, and its legendary founder insisted on racing to improve the breed. Yet, Porsche made the decision to stop competing for the overall win at the 24 Hours of Le Mans six years ago in order to pay for the development of the Cayenne. At some point, the people buying the Cayenne will not only forget what Porsche once stood for, they won't care. At some point, the only Porsche people will recognize will be the derivative, bloated SUV that's littering the shopping mall parking lots of suburbia. And at that point, Porsche will have officially "jumped the shark." It will have squandered its legacy, turned its back on its founding principles and become just another car company - and the ultimate punch line to a very bad joke. Brand authenticity? Porsche destroyed it - and its credibility - with one fateful decision.

[st-anger]

...kinda interesting discussion here...
first, i don´t think that we should take the TG lap times too serious, i mean what do we know how they really clock the times, in the vids we see the "stig" drives more for the crowd and definitely NOT against the clock, his driving style in the vids is spectacular but definitely not fast, period...
so, do they measure the time again when the "stig" is more focused on a good line, precise handling, ... who knows...???
the whole testing of TG is mainly show with lots of powersliding, burning rubber, ... to be acknowledged as a serious testing programm it´s a bit too intransparent IMO, so i never ever counted that much on TG lap times, sometimes they simply differ way too much from really serious time like the ones from e.g. "SA"...
but that´s only my point of view...

so i´m 101% sure that a GT3 will outrun a Vette hands down, but what´s so bad about that...i mean everyone, some won´t admit this, knows that Porsche always had the fastest cars on track, and whats even more important, not only for one or ten laps, when other cars from other brands need new brakes, tyres, gearboxes, engines !? ...

nevertheless, we know that the new Vette is a very strong competitor for "our" new products, i mean we saw the "C5 Commemorative Edition" with manu box, Z06 suspension, modern tyres clocking a 8:18 on NS, so only 1 sec behind a 996 C2, in comparison the std. C5 only clocked a 8:38, so there´ve been some major steps forward into the right direction and GM is on a good way with their new C6 and we´re expecting quite a good time from it, maybe there´ll be some surprises too...
but if a Z06 or C6 can manage the 996 GT3´s 7:54....well, time will tell...

but in the end, as some already pointed out, i also think and in some fields know, that a car with the Porsche badge on it, IS the better car...
i mean i had been out hundreds of times on e.g. NS during public driving and we know the ppl quite well and their cars, and regardeless if it´s a Corvette, Ferrari, ///M, AMG, ... when we reach the area of Kesselchen or Karussel with a e.g. GT3, that cars already completely dissapeared in the rear mirror by then...

...and again, TG is not everything and it´s a bit unfair to the cars to judge them after "stigs" lap times... :roll:

...just some thoughts 8)

[st-anger]

Originally Posted by 666fast However...if you are talking about sales Porsche is the most profitable car company in the world..and when talking about sales profit is what counts. Then why is it that the Cayenne is all they can sell at the moment? Last I read, 911 and Boxster sales were waaay down. From Autoextremist.com And then, there's Porsche. Refashioning itself as a company with a "diversified" product portfolio in order to position itself for the future, CEO Wendelin Wiedeking and his band of accountants turned Porsche away from its own heritage, traditions and history in order to enter the truck business. The plan was to orchestrate short-term profitability, with the added benefit of fortifying the company for the long haul so that they can continue to do what they do best - build sports cars. And on paper, Wiedeking was right. Porsche is ringing up huge profit numbers, and high-fiving is rampant in the halls at headquarters. It's great to be brilliant, right? Sure it is, except for one key thing: Porsche once was one of just two exclusive makers of sports cars left in the world, along with Ferrari. Now, Porsche sells more SUVs than it does sports cars. Wiedeking insists that Porsche can continue to do this with impunity, that no matter how many trucks they sell, Porsche will always be known for its sports cars. But at some point, the wheels will come off. Right now, Porsche sports car sales are down overall by 25 percent, with Boxsters down over 50 percent, just in time for the release of a new 911 this fall. Porsche was once known as one of the world's great builders of racing cars, and its legendary founder insisted on racing to improve the breed. Yet, Porsche made the decision to stop competing for the overall win at the 24 Hours of Le Mans six years ago in order to pay for the development of the Cayenne. At some point, the people buying the Cayenne will not only forget what Porsche once stood for, they won't care. At some point, the only Porsche people will recognize will be the derivative, bloated SUV that's littering the shopping mall parking lots of suburbia. And at that point, Porsche will have officially "jumped the shark." It will have squandered its legacy, turned its back on its founding principles and become just another car company - and the ultimate punch line to a very bad joke. Brand authenticity? Porsche destroyed it - and its credibility - with one fateful decision.

well, don´t worry
and that 996, 986 sales are decreasing is obvious because of the 997...

taken from the official press page:

Stuttgart.
Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG of Stuttgart, Germany, remains on course for growth. Despite the rather unsatisfactory economic environment, the manufacturer of sports cars and sport utility vehicles has been able to increase production, sales, revenue and earnings. In the first ten months of the 2003/04 fiscal year (which ends on 31 July) Porsche revenue increased by 14.0 percent to 5.06 billion Euros compared with the same period of the previous year. From 1 August 2003 to 31 May 2004 results have improved again as well, despite development and launch costs for the new-generation Porsche 911, deliveries will be phased into the world markets from 17 July 2004 on. On-sale date for North America is 28 August 2004.

Cayenne boosts overall sales

In the first ten months of the current fiscal year, Group sales rose by 18.2 percent to a total of 61,496 vehicles (previous year: 52,012 units). This growth was achieved by the Cayenne. By the end of May, 31,896 units of this sport utility vehicle had been sold compared with 12,343 units in the same period of the previous year, although the launch did not begin until December 2002. The 911 model line, on the other hand, fell back in the first ten months of the current year, with sales down by 19.9 percent to 18,986 vehicles; Boxster sales decreased by 34.3 percent to 10,490 units. 124 units of the high-performance sports Carrera GT car had been sold by the end of May.

Production and workforce increase

Porsche has again increased its production volume. In the first ten months of the 2003/04 fiscal year a total of 66,454 vehicles left the production line (plus 14.9 percent). Cayenne accounted for 34,612 units, compared with 16,600 units in the previous year. Porsche produced 20,457 units of the 911 (minus 17.9 percent), 11,121 Boxster cars (minus 31.5 percent) and 174 Carrera GTs. In the review period, Porsche continued to buck the general trend by creating more jobs. The Porsche Group’s workforce grew by 10.6 percent to 11,533 employees, though the bulk of this increase (888 employees) is due to the acquisition of CTS Car Top Systems GmbH, which was fully consolidated in this fiscal year. Investments continued at a high level and totaled approximately 941.7 million Euros (plus 0.7 percent). Of this figure, 509.0 million Euros were devoted to the financial services companies (minus 1.0 percent) and 432.7 million Euros (plus 2.8 percent) to investments in tangible assets.

Outlook

Porsche is well on the road to achieving record figures for the whole 2003/04 fiscal year as well. The company anticipates total sales of approximately 75,000 vehicles (previous year: 66,803 vehicles); and both revenue and year-end results should also improve. The Cayenne model line is the driving force behind this growth, which more than makes up for shortfalls in sports-car sales. The present 911 generation, now in the seventh year of its life cycle, will not achieve the same sales figures as in the previous year. It is none the less worth noting that deliveries to customers and orders from the German market have increased strongly in recent months. In addition to this, the higher-value variants of the current 911 model line were in strong demand on the world market. In mid-july 2004 the new 911 reaches the market. This will add further impetus to Porsche’s core business and will result in a even better model mix.

[BADMIHAI]

Thanks alot St-Anger. I was waiting for someone to set these people straight. 8)