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frnk · 09-08-2008, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by mts6800

As to the incident at the chicane, after the race, Ron Dennis said Lewis was ahead at the chicane. Looking at the video shows that Lewis was never ahead at the chicane. Kimi went wide at the chicane and Lewis ran out of room. That can happen when a driver tries to pass on the outside of a turn, that's racing.

Although I agree with you regarding Hamilton's actions after cutting the chicane I think it is pretty obvious Raikkonen pushed Hamilton out of the corner intentionally which he has every right to do. Hamilton accepted that when he tried to make the pass down the outside and acting like Raikkonen did anything against the rules into that final chicane is ludicrous.

p. k. allen · 09-08-2008, 02:29 AM

To me it was fair, and this is one I really wanted Kimi to win. I was excited for him after taking the lead at the start, and it was great to see he was clearly trying hard for the win. His driving may have been a little dirty but he earned my respect for his determination and I think he proved he still has that passion for racing people have been saying he'd lost. I was crushed watching him hit that wall, but I like how he was out there to win or lose.
And well done to Heidfeld, it was like Reubens at silverstone. Heidfeld seems to have a thing for taking 2 cars in one corner! lol didn't he do it twice in germany?

SHIZL · 09-08-2008, 02:37 AM

i dont think lewis should have been penalized for that, ive been watching racing along time and never seen anybody cut a chicane give the position back then repass and get penalized for it if anything kimi running into the back of lewis in the hairpin seems more like a infraction compared to what lewis did which was a # 2 driver trying to take him out haha, and kimi dominating that race would of been if lewis not catching back up to him. i dont know i could be wrong but dominating would not have the comp not trying to pass u on the outside. kimi can run into the back of whoever he wants and not get penalized and when heikki runs into the back of massa i hope he doesent get penalized either

DeMoN · 09-08-2008, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by Mattk

So? Perhaps that means Ferrari did nothing wrong. I think you're the one blinded by obsessiveness with McLaren.

You can't distinguish it that way. In every sport, soccer, basketball, cricket, netball, rugby, Aussie rules, well-meaning actions causing disadvantage must still be penalised. Illegal contact not resulting in disadvantage is almost never penalised. The test is always one of advantage/disavantage. The stewards determined that Hamilton got an advantage that he maintained even though he gave the position back. That was a determination of fact. McLaren can appeal, and they can still win, but at the moment, the stewards have told us what happened, and we've got to believe them.

So watch the video I posted where Schumi skips the corner and still is not penalized. That happened 2006 tell me why no drive thru penalty?

DeMoN · 09-08-2008, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by arguapacha

The fact that I do not like Hamilton or any other driver but that I like Ferrari, does not mean I will be totally sided to favour Ferrari always. I just said that, in my opinion (biased and without any way to access that data) Hamilton deserved the place after cutting the chicane, but Raikkonen drove an amazing race and deserved the win. It's a pity for the accident, but that's the way it is.

What it is clear is your anti-Ferrari obsession, which does not help either.

go to planetf1.com and read around. There is a forum. Even ferrari fans admit that this decision was BS

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,1895...114467,00.html a well written document. Planetf1 is not pro ferrari or pro any team. They have several different writers and info is posted there real fast. I am refreshing that all the time to see the decision of the appeal.

frnk · 09-08-2008, 02:48 AM

Raikkonen hit Hamilton in T1 because Hamilton had poor mid corner speed not to mention Raikkonen stood to lose alot more (ie. his front wing) than Hamilton did if the collision had been stronger.

DeMoN · 09-08-2008, 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by p. k. allen

To me it was fair, and this is one I really wanted Kimi to win. I was excited for him after taking the lead at the start, and it was great to see he was clearly trying hard for the win. His driving may have been a little dirty but he earned my respect for his determination and I think he proved he still has that passion for racing people have been saying he'd lost. I was crushed watching him hit that wall, but I like how he was out there to win or lose.
And well done to Heidfeld, it was like Reubens at silverstone. Heidfeld seems to have a thing for taking 2 cars in one corner! lol didn't he do it twice in germany?

I wanted Kimi to win too (Kimi is my favorite driver even though I am a McLaren fan) so that Massa would take 2nd driver spot in Ferrari. Wanting something to happen should not blind your decision of what is fair and what is not. If penalizing Lewis was the correct thing to do, they should have done it for next race, not tell him "hand over the trophy sorry"

frnk · 09-08-2008, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by DeMoN

So watch the video I posted where Schumi skips the corner and still is not penalized. That happened 2006 tell me why no drive thru penalty?

de la Rosa took the position 1 lap later, if he doesn't retain the position overall and it doesn't effect the outcome of the race then why should he be penalized?

frnk · 09-08-2008, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by DeMoN

I wanted Kimi to win too (Kimi is my favorite driver even though I am a McLaren fan) so that Massa would take 2nd driver spot in Ferrari. Wanting something to happen should not blind your decision of what is fair and what is not. If penalizing Lewis was the correct thing to do, they should have done it for next race, not tell him "hand over the trophy sorry"

I don't think a grid penalty for next race would really be correct in this situation, irrelevant of whether or not Hamilton deserved the penalty, if he did fail to sufficiently cede the line back to Raikkonen then his actions directly affected the outcome of the race so when a penalty is applied it should reflect this and apply to that race, not the next one.

Mattk · 09-08-2008, 03:00 AM

That happened 2006 tell me why no drive thru penalty?

Well, I'd distinguish that on the facts. Schumacher was leading when he cut the chicane. De la Rosa had not overtaken him yet.

p. k. allen · 09-08-2008, 03:00 AM

I wanted Kimi to win too (Kimi is my favorite driver even though I am a McLaren fan) so that Massa would take 2nd driver spot in Ferrari. Wanting something to happen should not blind your decision of what is fair and what is not. If penalizing Lewis was the correct thing to do, they should have done it for next race, not tell him "hand over the trophy sorry"

^ sorry I meant I believe Lewis' move was fair, not the decision, even though its one I wanted Kimi to win, so yeah, your safe to say even Ferrari fans think its harsh. Taking away his victory after being on the podium is too cruel.

DeMoN · 09-08-2008, 03:00 AM

Originally Posted by frnk

de la Rosa took the position 1 lap later, if he doesn't retain the position overall and it doesn't effect the outcome of the race then why should he be penalized?

Kimi spun and crashed a few seconds later, why should lewis be penalized if the outcome of the race was the same?

Mattk · 09-08-2008, 03:10 AM

I think the bigger issue is that Schumacher did not gain an advantage from the corner-cutting.

frnk · 09-08-2008, 03:12 AM

Originally Posted by DeMoN

Kimi spun and crashed a few seconds later, why should lewis be penalized if the outcome of the race was the same?

Because the overtaking move that put Hamilton in the lead affected the next lap which defined the outcome of the race. Essentially, if Raikkonen had been able to resume the lead fully (instead of only just clearing Hamilton at the start of the braking zone, which is what happened) then Raikkonen may not have spun.

I am not attempting to defend Schumacher and in that case he was definately breaking the rules but in the end he did not benefit, Hamilton did.

Pokiou · 09-08-2008, 03:21 AM

Originally Posted by arguapacha

The fact that I do not like Hamilton or any other driver but that I like Ferrari, does not mean I will be totally sided to favour Ferrari always. I just said that, in my opinion (biased and without any way to access that data) Hamilton deserved the place after cutting the chicane, but Raikkonen drove an amazing race and deserved the win. It's a pity for the accident, but that's the way it is.

What it is clear is your anti-Ferrari obsession, which does not help either.

Its fans like me that bring fairness to a sport where there isn't any..not fans like you.. your a hypocrite and your basis is based on you being a Ferrari Fan! My opinion are based on being a F1 Fan.