Porsche News

[st-anger]

...just a quick info, for lakatu, sorry i can´t answer your question right now because i won´t have time because i´m in italy right now on business, but i´ll be back on saturday or sunday and then i´ll try to answer the questions, sorry for that...

[Imre]

Can somebody tell me which engines were on 924?I know it had 2.0n/a and turbo and also 2.5n/a.Was there any other?

[st-anger]

Originally Posted by Imre Can somebody tell me which engines were on 924?I know it had 2.0n/a and turbo and also 2.5n/a.Was there any other?

…from what I know you´re right for all 924 modells including some special models like ´77 Martini Rossi, ´79 Rally Turbo, ´80 Carrera GT, ´81 GTR ( 2ltr. Turbo 375hp ) there were only these types of engines:

1975-1985: 2ltr. n/a (1984ccm) 125hp
1985-1989: 2.5ltr. n/a (2479ccm ) 150hp
1985-1989: 2.5ltr. n/a (2479ccm ) 160hp
1978-1984: 2ltr. Turbo (1984ccm ) 170hp
1980-1982: 2ltr. Turbo (1984ccm ) 177hp
1980: 2ltr. Turbo (1984ccm ) 210hp

[TT]

Any comments st-anger?

[st-anger]

Originally Posted by TT Any comments st-anger?

posted some time ago in "Porsche news":


- the fourth Porsche , Tue Sep 30, 2003 -

so that?s no breaking news, it`s been under discussion some weeks now, but for those who haven`t heared it, Porsche is planning to add a fourth model line, to take the company towards 100,000 units/year.
there had already been some signs back in 2002 when mr. Wiedeking said in an interview after the Cayenne was introduced: "it's very simple: after three comes four and we have good ideas.... but if the car we have in mind comes to the market, we will have fewer friends than we have today." some sources have said that Porsche has been studying a four-passenger coupe, code-named E2A, and a four-door sedan, code-named E2B, which should compete with MB E55,BMW M5, or Audi RS6.
there are some rumours, that it`ll launch in 2006 but these are only speculations. there are some speculations an what platform the 4th Porsche?ll be based on, building a new one?ll be way too expensive to develop, and there?d be no place where it would be built. by outsourcing, it`s likely that porsche is assigning Magna ( BMW X3 ) to build the car, but in the other hand it can also be based on a lightened version of the Cayenne platform, where the chassis weight can be reduced significantly since it will not require the underside durability built into the Cayenne.
this would save money, because the Cayenne uses, thx to a joint venture with VW, VW stamps, welds and they?re painting the body.
about the engine, the 911`s flat six would be unlikely to fit in a front engined bay. more likely, if the E2A & E2B modells are priced nearer the 911 than a Boxster and are 5 series sized, is the V8 of the Cayenne with the power kit ( ~ 500+hp )
another engine might be the V6 from the Cayenne V6.
Porsche management have stated that they will give an update on their plans for a 4th model in early 2004...


- the 4th Porsche, ...posted some time later -

German sports car maker Porsche is close to building a new four-seater coupe or sports sedan to jump start its profits as its business begins to stall after nine record years, industry experts said on Tuesday.
The world's most profitable car maker, which built its reputation on race-winning sports cars, branched out into a new niche a year ago with a two-tonne sports utility vehicle (SUV), the Cayenne, a strategy which helped maintain growth as demand for its traditional 911 and Boxster cars waned.
But as its sports car sales continue to slide and the initial impact of the Cayenne subsides, the company has said profits could be flat this year, disappointing investors who were hoping for a 10th straight record year.
"There is a good chance that a fourth model announcement could encourage the idea that Porsche is once again a growth story," Goldman Sachs analysts said in a recent note.
"We believe Porsche's fourth model plans are already advanced, with the car's development underway, suppliers closely involved and, according to our sources, prototypes now testing on private tracks."
The maker of some of the world's most desirable cars has long been expected to decide on a fourth model, but has left enthusiasts salivating for more detail.
Porsche, which will be grilled on its plans at its annual press conference in Stuttgart on Wednesday, is now expected to make a decision early next year, with the car not expected to hit the market until 2006 or 2007.
Chief Executive Wendelin Wiedeking has merely hinted that the vehicle could take Porsche into a new niche and attack rivals where they don't expect it, telling a German newspaper recently: "We'll have even fewer friends in the car industry."
Speculation has been rife about what the model could be -- ranging from a baby SUV to a luxury executive saloon -- but the clear favourite is a four-seat sports coupe or sedan.
The new model is likely to use parts from the Cayenne, developed with Europe's biggest car maker Volkswagen, and could be based either on an entirely new platform or on another base shared with VW, experts say.
"As an engineering base it's a toss up between two options," said Mark Fulthorpe of industry research group CSM Worldwide.
"One could be the current base that they share with VW for the Cayenne. The other is to get a similar agreement with VW to utilise the platform which VW will use for vehicles like the Audi A8 and the Phaeton."
Such a move could also benefit VW, allowing it to get more volume from a luxury car platform which has proved costly.
VW company expects to take a hit of several hundred million euros to write off some of the capitalised research and development costs this year, suggesting hundreds of million euros of investment will never generate a return.
VW has said it is working on a platform for a new mid-sized luxury model which industry experts say could also be used by Italian sportscar maker Maserati, and form an ideal base for Porsche's new car. VW declined to comment.
But other analysts said that Porsche, which made 933 million euros ($1.12 billion) before tax in its last business year to the end of July, has enough cash to develop a new platform on its own and note its high levels of capital expenditure this year.
"We still cannot figure out how Porsche spent 500 million euros in 02/03 unless it is ramping up engine capacity to allow supply for the fourth model, paying for supplier tooling and investing in stamping tooling for a new platform," Goldman said.
Industry experts also question the logic of rivals helping Porsche develop a car which will ultimately attack them on what they might long have thought of as safe territory.
"Porsche has historically relied on the generosity of the German industry, like developing the Cayenne with VW. If they're going to take the industry on in such a lucrative sector why would anyone help them out," one industry watcher said.

-----

yep, TT it´s getting more and more… i´ve posted some hints on that some months ago, but nobody really noticed that, as you can imagine this IS really top secret stuff and I should better watch out what I ´m saying, but I think to everyone who´s a bit into PAG it´s absolutely cleat that there´ll be the so calles 4th Porsche code named E2 A&B based on the Cayenne layout. So there are some test mules in the inner circle of EZW and i´ve already seen some designs for this modell and also some parts, just a little hint again, do you really think we´re developing the ~500hp Cayenne engine for the 955TT upgrade only , and here´s another interesting info:
last fiscal year (02/03), PAG have spent around 590M € in investments (capex) mainly because of the Cayenne and this year they will spend around 500M € which sounds a lot for the 997 (mainly) and a bit for the Boxster (987). they have to spend some cash to built the new engine factory which will have an annual capacity in excess of 100,000 units ..... there we are .... they need the 4th model to break the 100,000 units mark ...
so within the 500M € budgeted for this year, some might be dedicated to the 4th model. by the way, R&D budget will stay in line with last year's budget .... 500M € i.e. a very high level for a firm of this size, it´s therefore quite clear a 4th model might be on its way...

there´d be much more to tell and i´d love to discuss all that with you guys but again I hope you can understand that there´re some rules… and all this is far far away right now, geneva car show is quite near and there might be another little surprise, I can´t promise you anything, again it´s up to the marketing dep. when a modell is launched, but isn´t there another anniversary this year of a very popular modell ...
let´s wait and see…

[TT]

Of course I know about your previous replies.. I was curious about the line where they talk about "new enemies"

And yes, I know of course you can go o far with your posts

[stradale]

And they're not talking about fans and customers, but about other car manufacturers.Word is out there are some who have helped Porsche or have hired Porsche in the past that really don't like what's going there at PAG.

[st-anger]

...although business´s running better than any time before for PAG there´s quite some trouble...
the 955 hurt´s 911 sale, the car Porsche is well known for, but on the other hand is the 996 a real 911...?!
some say "PAG don´t need the 4th modell, a coupé/sedan, they already have the 996"...outch...
i mean it´s clear that the 996 modells a fabulous sports cars but not the real one for the core 911 fans, and with the 997....
well, the 997, again some trouble... after MB launched it´s latest SLK, a Porsche Boxster competitor with a V6 ~270hp, PAG had to act on their engine range, more hp are needed, this influences the 997 engine range as well, for the first time there´d been a slight rumour of a 5 in front of the power output figure of the 997TT modell, but again this all is business for the inner circle of the EZW where we´re already working on the 997´s sucsessor the 998 which "should be" a completely new car...
only time´ll tell...

[st-anger]

- Porsche GT2 vid -

Motorjournalen GT2

a very rare find, quite a nice Porsche GT2 video, 8mins long with some driving on the autobahn ~209mph , reminds me of my run ...
and some driving at the place to be, the Nordschleife...
the driver´s driving quite a nice line, so he seem´s to be quite skilled if any of you can translate what he´s saying ti´d be really nice, sorry it´s not english, some kind of skandinavian language i think...

but nevertheless definitely worth the dl...

[stradale]

I have also uploaded a video of the 996 GT2 to the Video Vault. Maybe you already know it. It isn't really special, but I think to a Porsche fan every video that features a GT2 is special enough.

[st-anger]

Originally Posted by stradale I have also uploaded a video of the 996 GT2 to the Video Vault. Maybe you already know it. It isn't really special, but I think to a Porsche fan every video that features a GT2 is special enough.

yep, thx, but already know it...
IMO the one from motorjournalen is quite special

[TT]

Oh Yes, the one where the guy took the GT2 up to 330+ kph on the highway very nice test indeed

[Schwalbe]

Thanks st-anger for the nice Porsche GT2 video.

It's very appreciate for people like me who can't download videos from the Video Vault section.

[st-anger]

[quote="lakatu"]

Originally Posted by st-anger looking for an decent and effordable Porsche it´s definitely a good desicion to go for a modell after ´86 because there´s a significant quality/power output/handling difference to the sub ´86 modells st-anger the information you provide here is incredibly useful and informative. I've just spent the past several days reading old posts. I have a question about your reply to the post concerning a 1987 911. I am aware of a change in the G50 transmission and increased power but I wasn't aware of any suspension or handling changes from 1987-89 to the 911. Was there any or were you referring to the 964, 993 & 996 being better handling? Also, it seems that you have either driven or have knowledge about the relative handling differences between the evolution from the 3.2L Carrera to the current 996. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind describing the technical changes and how or why they contributed to the improved cornering abilities and neutrality. Do you know the different NS lap times or estimated relative cornering speeds for the 4 different models? For example, how much faster would a 996 be able to take a corner verses the other models. Finally, in the U.S. 911's are commonly lowered to "Euro-spec". Do you know what the difference in ride height between the European and the U.S.version of the 1987 3.2L. I know that in the early 70's there was a height difference due to the bumper regulations in the U.S. but I am not sure if that carried over to the 1987 model. If so do you know what type of an impact this had on the U.S. 3.2L's handling capabilities? I read an old Road & Track test conducted in Germany of the 944T and 911 3.2L that seemed to indicate the European version of the 911 handled better than the U.S. version. Thanks for all the insight and knowledge you've shared on this website.

first of all, I don´t have any infos on “euro spec� 911´s, that´s not my business, sorry…
and i´m afraid i don´t know all the details you´ve asked, but i´m glad that you´re interested in that stuff, so i can highely recommend you, and everyone else who´s really interested in 911 and Porsche, the collection of books by Karl E. Ludvigsen:

“Porsche: Excellence Was Expected: The Comprehensive History of the Company, its Cars and its Racing Heritage.�
link

and:

“Porsche : The Road from Zuffenhausen�
link

i hope you can understand that it´s impossible for me to compare the 911 modells here in detail, because this simply´d take too much time, and as you know i´m not a friend of short reviews and a full review of all 911 modells´d take me days and I need some time with my wife too…

it´s very hard to talk about detailed NS lap times, especially of pre 996 modells and to compare them, even more difficult about cornering speeds, e.g. a 964 3.8RS is definitely faster round NS and in corners than a std. 996 modell, but will it be faster than the 7:56 of a 996TT….who knows…!?
i think these are questions no one can answer really exactely, you´ve to compare all of them on the NS to know for sure. you´re right i´ve driven quite a lot of Porsches in my life, but it´s still very hard to compare e.g. a brutal 930 Turbo with a 993 Turbo S or a 996 TT, when you´re driving the 930 Turbo you´re thinking you can easily outrun the latest Turbo modell, but on the other hand when driving in the 996TT everything´s just so smooth and powerfull and due to its tech.details you think this one is by far better than the older modells.
for sure, the latest modells are the better one´s, you can´t clock a better lap time in the 930 Turbo or 993 than in a 996 modell, it´s all about the tech stuff, and you need to be a very skilled driver ( …in comparison ) to be really fast in the older fast modells, especially in corners. Just like the very first 911 from ´63 with it´s unique frog-eyed shape had been the sucsessor of the 356, it´s chassis structure was conventional steel monocoque because galvanised steel was not arrived until 1971, it was a bit narrower than the 356 but also had a longer wheelbase and overall length to increase interiour space. and that´d been the first problem, because with the prior to luggage space the suspension was adopted with space-saving MacPherson struts in the front, with the aid of lower wishbones. in the rear, again the space problem led to the use of semi-trailing arms. however, it was still a big improvement over 356's swinging-axles. an early 911 engine doesn't like pulling hard below 1500rpm and it only gets into its proper stride between 2500 and 3000rpm. after this it runs with complete smoothness and lack of strain to the rev limit of ~6800rpm. It isn´t a silent power unit because at low rpm´s there´s a rumbling, rattling noise, which comes from the transmission, but once it rises into useful torque range there is nothing but a smooth mechanical whirr and a hard, deep and very subdued exhaust roar. the synchromesh transmission has that smooth, slicing action which is a Porsche speciality, the ratios are very close together and the gears are almost silent except at low speeds. to be always in the right gear for the present or potential situation demands little physical effort but a certain dedication and forethought which some will enjoy and others disdain.the clutch operation doesn´t quite live up to this standard, it is light but it has a long travel and an 'overcentre' feel. handling wise, the basic oversteering influence of a 40/60 weight distribution is counteracted largely by a very high roll stiffness at the front and a considerable difference between front and rear wheel camber settings. the car can be pushed up to its very high cornering speeds without a clear indication to the driver of what will happen when it finally lets go. on dry roads this doesn't matter very much, it´s most stable accelerating round a corner, when it maintains a very mild understeer, but the limits are so high that few people will reach them on public roads. on slippery surfaces the Dunlop SP high speed tyres still grip tenaciously but the back end will break away if you use too much throttle in a low gear, or if you corner too fast on a trailing throttle, a moderate amount of power gives the best results. if you want to drive near the ragged edge you must remain alert because of the usual early warning symptoms of roll, tyre squeal and attitude change are almost absent. Steering feedback is quite strong especially when cornering fast.

so, there´d been some “problems� with the 911´s handling due to the 40/60 weight distribution, you can easily “loose� an early 911 in corners without some experience and the 911 couldn´t gain from racing-spec aerodynamics and racing tyres like the 917CA.
this one had ~1000hp and 70% weight at the rear, and no handling problems at all…
to solve the problem, the suspension setup, that is, toe-in, camber, castor etc, should be accurately tuned to optimise the handling ability. however, in production line, such strict tolerances were found to be impossible to be implemented.
therefore the following corrective actions were taken :
adding weight to the front end with two 11 kg cast iron weights added to the bumper of those 911s with unsatisfactory handling found, officially called "bumper reinforcement" because it was nothing to be proud of. later, facility was added to adjust the upper location of the MacPherson strut, making it possible to adjust both castor and camber to the very close tolerances. as a result, "bumper reinforcement" was dropped. In 1969, wheelbase was extended by 6cm by moving the rear axle rearward. at nearly the same time, wider tyres were adopted, wheel rims widened to 5.5 in and then 6 in. these changes effectively improved its handling a lot. In the following years, tyres were continuously widened, from 165 of the original car to 205 front and 245 rear of the 993. 993TT even adopted 225 and 285 tyres. Lost of rear end became very difficult as a result. aerodynamic also improved, in 1972, "Duck tail" rear spoiler was introduced in the 911 RS 2.7 that reduced the rear aerodynamic lift by as much as 75%, thus greatly improved high speed stability. one year later, an even bigger "whale tail" rear spoiler appeared in the RS 3.0, then spreaded to all other production 911s in later years, completely eliminated rear lift.

the Type 901 flat-six engine was as legendary as the car itself, just think about it, although a lot of progress had been made during those years, the basic structure was never altered. For decades it remained to be air-cooled and, most important, the basic dimensions (governed by the distance between bore centres) remained unchanged. it sounds rather unbelievable, especially knowing the differences between the earliest and the latest engines - 2 litres versus 3.8 litres; 130 hp versus 450 hp - no other engine had so dramatic progress without a complete redesign. nevertheless, one thing was changed times to times: the name. from Type 901 (in order to coincide with the car’s name, although the latter was eventually changed to 911 under the protest from Peugeot)[1964-1970, 2ltr.] to Type 911 [ 1970-1977, 2.2, 2.4, 2.7ltr. modells + 3.0RS], 930 [ all 3.0, 3.3ltr. Turbo and 3.0, 3.2ltr. n/a ] modells, then renamed to M30 [1991-1992, 3.3ltr. 964 Turbo and 964 Turbo S ] briefly for the Turbo, and at last M64. [ 1989 -…, all 3.6 and 3.8ltr. modells ] it´s generally regarded that the M30 did not worth a new name because it was actually a revised Type 930 Turbo 3.3. in contrast, the M64 had the most changes.
during the 3 and a half decades, the Type 901 engine faced challenges times to times from tightening emission and noise regulations as well as the weight increment. the ask for cleaner emission and more flexibility (thus torque) without any trade-off in performance, cost and reliability guided the development of the engine. Porsche met the demand by increasing engine displacement times to times, plus some other latest development (some were learned from racing program), such as forged pistons, Nikasil treatment, turbocharging, intercooler, electronic fuel injection / ignition, advanced engine management program, variable intake system, twin ignition, low back-pressure exhaust…

NOTE: if you want a full list with all the details ( tech.updates…) of Turbo and n/a engines, as well as some other infos on these types of engines, just ask…

but better buy that two books…

[st-anger]

Dauer Porsche 962LM