Lexus F: AMG and M Rival from Japan

[vexor]

teaser pic of the new "F" series

[ferrarif1fan89]

looks promising. it'll look good in black.

[dutchmasterflex]

Wow.. they really kept those exhuast pipes?!

[SafirXP]

i am sure they can do better than AMG, they've the expertise & the financial backing. challenging M division would take years & a lot more passion...

[Ghostbat]

Originally Posted by SafirXP i am sure they can do better than AMG, they've the expertise & the financial backing. challenging M division would take years & a lot more passion...

Mercedes/AMG lacks expertise and financial backing :roll:

Maybe you should compare Mercedes sucess in Motorsport with Toyotas lack of the same. Financial backing isn't everything, just look at Toyotas failed F1 attempt.

[Shinigami]

Originally Posted by SafirXP i am sure they can do better than AMG, they've the expertise & the financial backing. challenging M division would take years & a lot more passion...

And the naive BMW fans still believe anything they say...

Let's take a look at the Fortune 500 list.

Rank -   Company name  - Overall company Rank - Revenues (in millions of $)
 2   - DaimlerChrysler -        7             -     186,106 
 3   -   Toyota Motor  -        8             -     185,805
 9   -       BMW       -       78             -      57,973

When there's an opportunity for people to badmouth Mercedes, they will do so. How quickly people forget that Mercedes invented the motor vehicle, not BMW :roll:

[blue8]

revenues don't say anything about a car's performance

[Ghostbat]

Originally Posted by blue8 revenues don't say anything about a car's performance

Says a lot of financial backing..

[McLaren4eVa]

Originally Posted by dutchmasterflex Wow.. they really kept those exhuast pipes?!

I know, they're disgusting, well i guess when i see one in the flesh i'll change my mind.

[ae86_16v]

Originally Posted by Shinigami Originally Posted by SafirXP i am sure they can do better than AMG, they've the expertise & the financial backing. challenging M division would take years & a lot more passion... And the naive BMW fans still believe anything they say... Let's take a look at the Fortune 500 list. Rank - Company name - Overall company Rank - Revenues (in millions of $) 2 - DaimlerChrysler - 7 - 186,106 3 - Toyota Motor - 8 - 185,805 9 - BMW - 78 - 57,973 When there's an opportunity for people to badmouth Mercedes, they will do so. How quickly people forget that Mercedes invented the motor vehicle, not BMW :roll:

Originally Posted by Ghostbat Originally Posted by SafirXP i am sure they can do better than AMG, they've the expertise & the financial backing. challenging M division would take years & a lot more passion... Mercedes/AMG lacks expertise and financial backing :roll: Maybe you should compare Mercedes sucess in Motorsport with Toyotas lack of the same. Financial backing isn't everything, just look at Toyotas failed F1 attempt.

Agreed. . . I don't know how you could say MB/AMG lacks expertise and financial backing? I am a BMW fan, but even I am willing to admit that AMG w/ the partnership with McLaren definitely has more expertise and financial backing than the famed Motorsport Division.

Finances definitely add to the equation, but like before with the N-ring bit/comment, it doesn't guarantee anything.

With that said, Toyota had made some good sports cars back in the days so we will see what happens here.

[Ghostbat]

^
But the M-division bought over the old AMG boss so now they have som expertise

[dutchmasterflex]

I just hope those dual-dual exhausts do not become a signature styling cue for all of the F cars..

[gobs3z]

Originally Posted by ae86_16v Originally Posted by Shinigami Originally Posted by SafirXP i am sure they can do better than AMG, they've the expertise & the financial backing. challenging M division would take years & a lot more passion... And the naive BMW fans still believe anything they say... Let's take a look at the Fortune 500 list. Rank - Company name - Overall company Rank - Revenues (in millions of $) 2 - DaimlerChrysler - 7 - 186,106 3 - Toyota Motor - 8 - 185,805 9 - BMW - 78 - 57,973 When there's an opportunity for people to badmouth Mercedes, they will do so. How quickly people forget that Mercedes invented the motor vehicle, not BMW :roll: Originally Posted by Ghostbat Originally Posted by SafirXP i am sure they can do better than AMG, they've the expertise & the financial backing. challenging M division would take years & a lot more passion... Mercedes/AMG lacks expertise and financial backing :roll: Maybe you should compare Mercedes sucess in Motorsport with Toyotas lack of the same. Financial backing isn't everything, just look at Toyotas failed F1 attempt. Agreed. . . I don't know how you could say MB/AMG lacks expertise and financial backing? I am a BMW fan, but even I am willing to admit that AMG w/ the partnership with McLaren definitely has more expertise and financial backing than the famed Motorsport Division. Finances definitely add to the equation, but like before with the N-ring bit/comment, it doesn't guarantee anything. With that said, Toyota had made some good sports cars back in the days so we will see what happens here.

I think you're all misunderstanding the issue here. Money has nothing to do with it. They all have the financial backing they need, but they all have different views on what their sport division should be making. M does make the best driver oriented car, it is easily the most extreme in its class in terms of track readiness. They shoot for having the best handling drivers car. AMG doesn't have they same ideology. They put amazing engines in super saloons but they don't pure power and good handling, compared to the great handling of the BMWs. Audi goes for a great handling car that always keeps you in the safe zone by not totally getting rid of understeer. Point: They all can make the best handling cars in the world, but they choose not to. They choose to make a car based on their ideologies which are all different, and you have to appreciate that we have this amount of variation, and now we have another one joining the group and i can't wait to see how it stirs up the competition.

[rave426]

I think the exhaust are a nice addition to make it look different. In all means....exhaust pipes alone shouldl not turn a buyer away. At least we know Toyota didnt carry the camara to Italy or Germany and take snapshots of exhaust configurations and go back home and copy and paste them, like some Jap automakers have done before with various styling cues.

Yay For Toyota, for doing something different and not boring. They may be ugly, but they aint boring.

Anyway. I think the car is going to be better than expected. Maybe not quite as good as the new M3, because something tells me its gonna be a heavyweight, nevertheless, it should be pretty close.

Sure many cars or tested on the ring, but we also gotta remember Japanese cars that are tested on the Ring are usually damn good. ...........Skyline.........NSX..........STI....... ..EVO. Yeah......I think it will be a very good car.

[Shinigami]

Originally Posted by Ghostbat ^ But the M-division bought over the old AMG boss so now they have som expertise

And AMG brought in the guy (forgot his name) from Porsche, who helped Porsche developed the Carrera GT engine, and then went on the help AMG develop the 63 engine.

Also, I think AMG is beginning to accept the fact that they need to also satisfy demands which are met by BMW's M division. Things such as handling, as has been proven by recent changes from AMG with testing on the Nurburgring, creating the 030 Performance Package (also known as the Nurburgring package) that includes stiffer springs, larger brakes etc...

Admittedly, AMG's philosophy is very different from M's, but that's what makes the two car companies so special. They cater for different needs.