CSL on the Nürburgring

[RC45]

^^ not really percentage wise don't we collectively ignore almost all cars when comparing to sports cars.. right?

Otherwise by that logic an 18 second 1/4 mile is flying

[e46drew]

^^

I agree with ignoring most irrelevant b/s, but are there more then 100 currant prduction cars that are faster, no-don-thingk-so

fo-shizzel :rainbowafro:

[RC45]

^^ well, doesn't Mercedes have like 120 different AMG models with sub 5s 0-60mph - granted none of them can handle or turn, but they seem to have flooded the world with straightline beasties..

And forgive me for judging all these "fast cars" against the 25,000 odd 0-60 in 4s push-rod V8 powered Z cars that GM sold from 2000 though 2004

You can pick one up for under $30K these days, so as far as how "exclusive" 0-60 in 4s is these days, it's not really

Of course the exotic materials and fancy doodads stuck all over the CSL are part of the whole deal, but it's not exactly M5 terrirtory right

[Just_me]

Originally Posted by RC45 Originally Posted by Just_me the car has 360hp and a speedlimiter at 250km/h. you can choose to delimit your CSL so Im surprised he havent done it on this car. Data: 0-100km/h in 4.8 sec 0-200km/h in 16,8 sec 0-100 in 4.8s is quite slow... - the M3 CSL is supposed to represent the ultimate street incarnation od the M3... and 360hp (crank hp) is about 300rwhp... not that much for "the pinnacle M3". It seems to be about as quick as a Lotus Exige. Like I say - great video, great sound, great specs on the car, but way slow. Considering how long it took him to pul 250km/h, who knows how much more speed he could have made up even if delimited. Even if you watch at other places on the track, he barely ever gets over 170kmh... thats 100mph chaps - the engines sounds like its going 500mph

You are just happy it dont have an extra 200 hp, it would be a nighmare for you, seeing it killing Z06 and stuff on tracks. so instead of whining that the car is underpowered you should be thankfull

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Just_me You are just happy it dont have an extra 200 hp, it would be a nighmare for you, seeing it killing Z06 and stuff on tracks. so instead of whining that the car is underpowered you should be thankfull

No - I actually welcome it to have extra power, I am really tired of having to pull over and wait for modded M3's to catch up when we go driving in the backroads..

The reason I do not have an M3 (always wanted one though) is that it is really a lot of hype with not much substance and far too high of a price..

[RC45]

Originally Posted by everso Originally Posted by RC45 hype bingo! the #1 reason i hate M3s.

Welcome back fellow partner in espionage crime... I wondered when we could again agree on something...

[dirim]

I own a CSL thus may be a bit biased but I thought listing some facts would be beneficial for your discussion.

As you know the CSL has 3.2 lt in-line engine. At 360ps it translates to 112.5 ps/lt which is amongst the highest NA engines ever produced. Certainly the heighest in non-dream car range. It cannot be reliably made more powerful. That's why BMW will most likely switch to V8 in the next generation M3 to keep up with the power wars between the German manufacturers. I'd rather see lighther cars personally which makes sportive driving much more fun.

Sport Auto lapped the Nordschleife in a CSL at 7min 50sec which is again faster than anything remotely in its price range. For reference some representative times are: Corvette C6 8:15, M6 (new) 8:09, M5 (new) 8:13, M3 (manual) 8:22, Audi RS4 8:25, 911 (996) GT3 RS(*) 7:47, 911 GT3 7:54, GT3 Cup(*) 7:49, Ferrari 360 8:09, 360 CS(*) 7:56, Ferrari 430 F1 7:55, Honda NSX-R(*) 8:09, Ford GT 7:52, SLR Mclaren 7:52, SL 55 AMG 8:06.

(*) Times with sport tires like the Michelin Pilot Sport Cups on the CSL.

During the same test it pulled 1.4g again highest probably of any car tested by SportAuto.

In conclusion, I wouldn't call CSL slow. It's not a drag racer though. It's not as fast as most of the cars I've mentioned above on a straight line but it shines at carrying speed into the corners. That's where it makes up its time. It's suited best to fast tracks. That's why it's difficult to drive the CSL fast because it takes skills, experience and 2xballs (not that I have any of them to make a claim ) to corner fast whereas anyone can put the pedal to the metal on the straight. That's probably what we're seeing on the videos under discussion here.

I hope this info helps. Take care all...

[RC45]

Originally Posted by dirim I own a CSL thus may be a bit biased but I thought listing some facts would be beneficial for your discussion. As you know the CSL has 3.2 lt in-line engine. At 360ps it translates to 112.5 ps/lt which is amongst the highest NA engines ever produced. Certainly the heighest in non-dream car range. It cannot be reliably made more powerful. That's why BMW will most likely switch to V8 in the next generation M3 to keep up with the power wars between the German manufacturers. I'd rather see lighther cars personally which makes sportive driving much more fun. Sport Auto lapped the Nordschleife in a CSL at 7min 50sec which is again faster than anything remotely in its price range. For reference some representative times are: Corvette C6 8:15, M6 (new) 8:09, M5 (new) 8:13, M3 (manual) 8:22, Audi RS4 8:25, 911 (996) GT3 RS(*) 7:47, 911 GT3 7:54, GT3 Cup(*) 7:49, Ferrari 360 8:09, 360 CS(*) 7:56, Ferrari 430 F1 7:55, Honda NSX-R(*) 8:09, Ford GT 7:52, SLR Mclaren 7:52, SL 55 AMG 8:06. (*) Times with sport tires like the Michelin Pilot Sport Cups on the CSL. During the same test it pulled 1.4g again highest probably of any car tested by SportAuto. In conclusion, I wouldn't call CSL slow. It's not a drag racer though. It's not as fast as most of the cars I've mentioned above on a straight line but it shines at carrying speed into the corners. That's where it makes up its time. It's suited best to fast tracks. That's why it's difficult to drive the CSL fast because it takes skills, experience and 2xballs (not that I have any of them to make a claim ) to corner fast whereas anyone can put the pedal to the metal on the straight. That's probably what we're seeing on the videos under discussion here. I hope this info helps. Take care all...

Interesting read - however that 7m50 with semi-slick tyres is not that impressive alongside the 7m54 of the much cheaper and mass produced C5 Z on full tread street tyres..

And after all thyat I really do hope the CSL is much much faster than a chipped, piped amd heavily tuned E46 M3


Video :arrow: http://media.rc45.net/media/slowbeemer.zip

[Just_me]

Originally Posted by RC45 [ Interesting read - however that 7m50 with semi-slick tyres is not that impressive alongside the 7m54 of the much cheaper and mass produced C5 Z on full tread street tyres.. ]

Every time he mention comes from sportauto, your s is a factory time. What is the time for CSL done with the factory driver?

Its a shame Sportauto never tested C5 Z06, Im so looking forward to see sportauto test C6 Z06 around the ring.

PS AC shnitzer drove M3 CSL (modified chassisettings) on nordschleife in 7.36 min

[Just_me]

Originally Posted by everso first of all man, it's not reliable in the first place. BMW have realised their mistake in trying to push a small engine to produce that much power...they KNOW it's not reliable....one of my friends is very good friends with Chris Bangle, and he said the engineers at BMW are definitely not gonna mess around with small N/A engines anymore........lighter cars aren't gonna happen with many german makes in the near future....safety is too high of a priority right now. the solution...they're following Audi and going turbo

Why keep selling the M3 and why the hell did they made the engine more advanced in CSL and why does the Z4M use the M3 engine if the engine is so unreliable? Make no sense.

If I remember correct, the new RS4 dont have turbo (thank God for that).
Are you sure you kow stuff about Audi?

[RC45]

Originally Posted by Just_me Originally Posted by RC45 [ Interesting read - however that 7m50 with semi-slick tyres is not that impressive alongside the 7m54 of the much cheaper and mass produced C5 Z on full tread street tyres.. ] Every time he mention comes from sportauto, your s is a factory time. What is the time for CSL done with the factory driver? Its a shame Sportauto never tested C5 Z06, Im so looking forward to see sportauto test C6 Z06 around the ring. PS AC shnitzer drove M3 CSL (modified chassisettings) on nordschleife in 7.36 min

But do remember the "factory time" was set by a US company that risks severe legal ramifications if they make false claims.

That alone is incentive to not lie - Mazda had to swallow a lot of money just because they misquoted the RX8 power output by a few KW.

The times provided by GM (and validated by independent observers - one of which is a JW contributor.. ) are the real deal.

[LotusGT1]

M3 CSL in Germany - 85.000 €
Z06 in Germany - 80.000 €

Much cheaper is relative. And in the end the M3 descents from a sedan, where the Z06 is a sportscar by default. Different approach for different tastes.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by LotusGT1 M3 CSL in Germany - 85.000 € Z06 in Germany - 80.000 € Much cheaper is relative. And in the end the M3 descents from a sedan, where the Z06 is a sportscar by default. Different approach for different tastes.

Is it true you cannot use the boot of the CSL because the cardboard floor will fall out if you put a bag of dog food in there?

And the C5 Z cost no where near 80K at the time.. - the new Z is so far ahead of the CSL it is not afair comparison.

I really like the CSL, but in my opinion , all M3's are way underpowered to really enjoy as an all rounder..

I mean look how much stronger even a stock C5 Z is compared to a modded M3. Thats essentially my point.

The video of CSL laps is awesome - no doubt about it, but as a hipo car enthusiast I know for me, the M3 (even the CSL) would get boring pretty quick. It is nice to have some HP under your arse to use when you need to is all I am saying

[LotusGT1]

C5 Z was never available in Germany.

Rest is opinion

Like I said, both cars are too different breeds that hardly can be compared.

In your opinion cars like the RS4, AMG line-up and the CTS's all must have the same basic problem. Not enough speed. But at the end of the day it all depends on what you want in a car. V8 or I6, 2 or 4 seats, premium finish versus polish plastic , 2 doors or 4, etc....can't have all.

BTW, M3's don't seem to respond very well on mods anyway. Haven't seen much (if any) 400hp+ M3's.

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by LotusGT1 C5 Z was never available in Germany. Rest is opinion BTW, M3's don't seem to respond very well on mods anyway. Haven't seen much (if any) 400hp+ M3's.

if i recall, there is a vacuum on the induction; and things like a supercharger to 4psi yeilds tremendous results... such as in Dinans S3 M3 with 423 hp.

but you are right, its not like tuning a small block