motor

Just_me · 07-26-2005, 07:12 AM

[quote="Ghostbat"]

Once again I think those test results should be taken lightly.. Indeed a very fast car but just maybe slightly biased in BM:s favor.. I have never read any test where the M5 is as fast as the CL65 from 0-200km/h

Im a Moderator at M5board.com. I assure you its true. It did happen, the owners where there with their cars, We didnt pay them to be slower than the M5. Watch the video and see for yourself.

PS
Sportauto got the same time as CL65 up to 200km/h with the new M5.

I dont think we can proove it better so belive what you want. I dont really care what others think.

bmwmpower · 07-26-2005, 09:51 AM

im impressed, so this engine got more to say,
BTW 530 is way too much for car, what will be next
99 M5 400 hp, 6 years after 500 hp, and next 6 years ?
its too much, better to set down weight

RC45 · 07-26-2005, 10:10 AM

530rwhp?

Where is the dyno sheet?

530 calculated crank hp - maybe. But 530rwhp is about 620 odd crank HP. underrating your engine by 130hp is stupid.

If this is the case (but I really doubt it) then all this means is that the M5 is a slow heavy pig - until you shove a 620hp engine in it. LAst I heard a brick wall would go fast with a powerful enough engine.

All the stories and bragging about how the 500hp E650 M5 runs with Ferraris etc etc etc. It would seem then that at 620hp, if it didn't run with Ferraris is would be crap.

Anyone have the dyno sheet of this stock 530 rear wheel HP E60 M5?

Pics or STFU

Oh - and lets be clear - is the BHP or PS? Because comparing the directly is as asinine and stupid as comparing 100 Farhenheit vs 100 Centigrade.

Just_me · 07-26-2005, 10:16 AM

This is the latest post from the M5 owner

OK guys,

I aint no technician - and honestly I have no clue what you're talking about.
But I can at least share some info they gave me that day.

First of all, yes, they had a fan in front of the car, even though they admitted that this fan could be a bit bigger.
Secon, we had like 90° F which (I was told) is not a good temp to measure the real potential.
Third, with only 7k KM on the reader (I again wwas told) that e.g. the torque (NM Newton Meter) will go up as soon as the engine is a bit more mature, s.th. like 15k KM
Finally, unfortunately there was no other E60 around to compare. The owner of the shop told me that they had one 4 weeks before - the result was around 520 hp. Could be that BMW figured that it's not that well received that most of the E39 haven't reached the base power as stated in any fact sheet. The proof to this during that day: we had about 10 E39 M5's on this bench, none (!!!) of them reached 400 hp - if I recall it right, there was one with 397, the rest was well below 390, some even below 380
Having said this - all with the same bench, the same Software used and of course the same conditions.

I really didn't care that much. Nevertheless, it's just the car with a good performance. It's not me
From a personal "feeling" point of view: I was surprised. Having driven the E39 M5 before, I really don't feel that big of a difference (except running it on our Autobahn - THAT is a difference!!)

Back to topic: they guys who did organize this event 2 weeks ago were sure about those results. They promised that all data is accurate and they were also certain that this was one of the strongest engines they've ever had on this dyno...

Cheers to all
Rainer

PS, RC45 there is a dyno sheet showing 530,7hp (Ps), more dynosheets will follow. See the link I posted to M%board.com.

RC45 · 07-26-2005, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Just_me

PS, RC45 there is a dyno sheet showing 530,7hp (Ps), more dynosheets will follow. See the link I posted to M%board.com.

PS or HP -- those are 2 different units.

Rear wheel power or calculated crank power from measured wheel power?

On the surface, because there is NO reason why a manufacturer would under-rate their engines by 100 BHP - I am calling complete BS on the rumour that a bone stock E60 M5 can pull 530 REAR WHEEL BRAKE HORSPOWER SAE.

This would mean that the E60 M5 is shipping with a 620hp engine,- at the crank - that would about 430 REAR WHEEL BRAKE HORSEPOWER.

Somehow I doubt very much BMW would ship the M5 with a 630hp engine - and claim it was only 507hp.

Again - what UNIT is being used to measure this rear wheel power?

Let's put it in correct context.

Brake horsepower (bhp)
Brake horsepower was a term commonly used before the 1970s in the United States, and is still common in the United Kingdom. It indicates the brake, the device for measuring the true power of the engine. Stating power in 'bhp' gives some indication this is a true reading, rather than a calculated or predicted one. However, several manufacturers started to strip their engines of essential ancillaries for the purposes of getting a high horsepower figure to use in marketing the car.

hp (SAE)
In the United States the term "bhp" fell into disuse after the American Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) recommended manufacturers use "hp (SAE)" to indicate the power of the engine, given that particular car's complete engine installation. This may also be stated as "SAE net hp" or simply "net hp". The British market seemed not to need the correction.

PS
This unit (German: Pferdestärke = horse strength) is no longer a lawful unit, but is still commonly used in Europe, South America and Japan, especially by the automotive and motorcycle industry. It was adopted throughout continental Europe with designations equivalent to the English "horse power", but mathematically different from the British unit. It is defined by the Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt (PTB)[2] in Braunschweig as exactly:

1 PS = 75 kp·m/s = 735.49875 W = 1.013869665424 hp (SAE)
The PS was adopted by the Deutsches Institut für Normung (DIN), and subsequently, by the automotive industry throughout most of Europe. (In the nineteenth century, however, the French did not use this German unit, but had one of their own, the Poncelet.) In 1992, the PS was rendered obsolete by EEC directives, where it was replaced by the kW as the official power measuring unit, but in situations where hp was used for commercial and advertising purposes, it continued to be used, as customers are not familiar with the usage of kW for combustion engines.

So which is it?

530hp(SAE) or 530bhp or 530PS - and at the hweels? Or calcualted back to the crank?

Just_me · 07-26-2005, 11:10 AM

It was done in germany and the dynosheet shows PS. So answer to your question is PS

RC45 · 07-26-2005, 11:18 AM

530PS = 522hp

At the rear wheels? Or calculated back to the crank?

BEcause if at the rear wheels then the world is to somehow believe that BMW is shipping the M5 with a 630 crank horse power engine, instead of a 507 crank horsepower engine?

Bullshit.

If they had an extra 120hp just laying there, they would be announcing it off the rooftops.

It would seem that this 530PS/522hp is really calculated back to the crank - which means that 507hp vs 522hp is not that big of a deal and within normal variances.

Nothing to see here - just more fake BMW press.

:roll:

ZfrkS62 · 07-26-2005, 11:20 AM

The proof to this during that day: we had about 10 E39 M5's on this bench, none (!!!) of them reached 400 hp - if I recall it right, there was one with 397, the rest was well below 390, some even below 380

BMW never actually rated the E39 M5 at 400 even. Everyone always rounded it up to 400. Even in the M5 training manual it lists the S62 at 397 HP.

No two cars are exactly the same. Nor will they dyno the same. you could take 10 Z06's (bear with me RC, i'm not attacking you/your car, just making a point) and stick them on the same dyno and they will all throw out different numbers. I'm sure only a few will get near the factory rating but most of them, depending on mileage, will probably be about 20HP low.

Nothing to see here - just more fake BMW press

Not real press though. This is coming from a bunch of morons who don't know how to read a dyno sheet.

ZfrkS62 · 07-26-2005, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Ghostbat

@Just Me- The 507 was really the predecessor to the 7 series. In it's time it was the highest end car BMW was producing and really brought the attention that BMW was looking for for it's cars. They had made a name for themselves with their motorcycles and aircraft engines (which they were barred from producing after WW2)

Was more like the predecessor to the Z8.

What are you talking about??? The 507 predated everything by at least 40 years. How the hell could it have been the Z8's predecessor?

RC45 · 07-26-2005, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by ZfrkS62

No two cars are exactly the same. Nor will they dyno the same. you could take 10 Z06's (bear with me RC, i'm not attacking you/your car, just making a point) and stick them on the same dyno and they will all throw out different numbers. I'm sure only a few will get near the factory rating but most of them, depending on mileage, will probably be about 20HP low.

LOL - I am not that sensitive -..

But you 100% correct - there have at times been 20 Z's being dyno's at the same event - and all the stock cars would range from 330rwhp tp 345rwhp for the 385bhp cars, and 350rwhp to 365rwhp for the 405bhp ones.

It just depends - besides, anything above 330rwhp for the 385bhp Z06's is good - using the accepted 15% drive train loss.

Would the E60 M5 suffer the same 15% loss - or different? Is is a auto-clutch manual or an auto tranny?

Originally Posted by ZfrkS62

Nothing to see here - just more fake BMW press

Not real press though. This is coming from a bunch of morons who don't know how to read a dyno sheet.

Hey I tried to work "but it's ugly" into the thread - but came up short - so this is the best slam on Beemer I have today

Just_me · 07-26-2005, 11:28 AM

As always there are belivers and non belivers but it doenst matter. Let the acceleration numbers we seen so far speak for it self. 507hp or not, the car is damn fast.

RC45 · 07-26-2005, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Just_me

As always there are belivers and non belivers but it doenst matter. Let the acceleration numbers we seen so far speak for it self. 507hp or not, the car is damn fast.

What's to believe - 522hp (crank) is so close to 507hp (crank) - this guys car is just a strong E60 M5. It's not like BMW under rated the engine or anything

ZfrkS62 · 07-26-2005, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by RC45

Originally Posted by ZfrkS62

No two cars are exactly the same. Nor will they dyno the same. you could take 10 Z06's (bear with me RC, i'm not attacking you/your car, just making a point) and stick them on the same dyno and they will all throw out different numbers. I'm sure only a few will get near the factory rating but most of them, depending on mileage, will probably be about 20HP low.

LOL - I am not that sensitive -..

But you 100% correct - there have at times been 20 Z's being dyno's at the same event - and all the stock cars would range from 330rwhp tp 345rwhp for the 385bhp cars, and 350rwhp to 365rwhp for the 405bhp ones.

It just depends - besides, anything above 330rwhp for the 385bhp Z06's is good - using the accepted 15% drive train loss.

Would the E60 M5 suffer the same 15% loss - or different? Is is a auto-clutch manual or an auto tranny?

Originally Posted by ZfrkS62

Nothing to see here - just more fake BMW press

Not real press though. This is coming from a bunch of morons who don't know how to read a dyno sheet.

Hey I tried to work "but it's ugly" into the thread - but came up short - so this is the best slam on Beemer I have today

No, the M5 is a regular standard transmisison. No torque converter crap here

Just_me · 07-26-2005, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by ZfrkS62

What are you talking about??? The 507 predated everything by at least 40 years. How the hell could it have been the Z8's predecessor?

"Today, the 507 is one of BMW's most sought after collectors cars, as well as the design inspiration for the Z8."

Just_me · 07-26-2005, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by RC45

Originally Posted by Just_me

As always there are belivers and non belivers but it doenst matter. Let the acceleration numbers we seen so far speak for it self. 507hp or not, the car is damn fast.

What's to believe - 522hp (crank) is so close to 507hp (crank) - this guys car is just a strong E60 M5. It's not like BMW under rated the engine or anything

Im not saying this 530hp story is true. All I say we seen how the M5 perform and and the car has been damn fast. So 530hp or not doesnt really matter.