motor

mindgam3 · 09-20-2004, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by toronto

toyota is the 2nd biggest car company in terms of sales, GM has been #1 for 70+ plust years

I think toyota are biggest in terms of profit/overall wealth or something fairly relative though aren't they? I'm not 100% sure so dont flame me

sameerrao · 09-20-2004, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by stracing

f1 does need those teams, look where webber, fischella, alonso came from

it will be a huge loss if they left

Not to mention one Michael Schumacher ...

CSedl87 · 09-20-2004, 08:03 PM

Minardi/Jordan is a stepping stone for the younger people. Although it seems like sauber may stepping up to this... As for the Toyota engines in 'em, that'd be awesome. A Ferrari 1,2,3 would def suck, but BAR would be more competitive in a 3 car setup. Davidson, Button (if he doesn't leave), and Sato. That's a nice line up right there! :shock:

sentra_dude · 09-20-2004, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by mindgam3

Originally Posted by toronto

toyota is the 2nd biggest car company in terms of sales, GM has been #1 for 70+ plust years

I think toyota are biggest in terms of profit/overall wealth or something fairly relative though aren't they? I'm not 100% sure so dont flame me

At least in America Toyota is #1 in car sales, but I don't know about the entire world...

On the comment about Toyota being a mid-field runner...yes, that's true, but that's mostly aerodynamic and chassis issues and the occasional reliability issue...they currently have if not the most powerful, the 2nd most powerful engine behind BMW. So it would make a pretty good engine for the back runners IMO, at least, as long as it didn't blow-up...

ZfrkS62 · 09-20-2004, 08:28 PM

Sentra, don't forget the other factor that is causing Toyota to linger midfield..the drivers. Panis and Da Matta aren't as skilled as the front runners and barely manage to stay in front of the rear of the pack. If they knew how do drive around the stability issues that low downforce causes, the may Montoya was able to drive around the problem the twin tusks of the williams presented, I think that Toyota's aero issues are solved.
as for the reliability problems, well...who knows who could solve that *cough*Tifosi*cough*

chipanggo · 09-20-2004, 10:25 PM

well, as bernie just said, if ever jordan and minardi go too, it is stipulated in agreement with the other teams that they will run 3rd cars. in a way, i don't see this as a bad idea. it would be more exciting to see 3 ferraris, 3 williamses and 3 mclarens battling at the front than a minardi and a jordan at the back.

ZfrkS62 · 09-20-2004, 10:39 PM

if that happens, the 2005 podiums are going to be Schumacher, Barrichello and probably Luca Badoer. Is this REALLY what people want to see? frankly i think i'll be sick to see that, unless the 3rd cars start from the back rows....i dunno...this overspeculation is driving me nuts. let's just hope someone buys out Jag.

chipanggo · 09-20-2004, 10:47 PM

your right. the best thing would be for someone to buy out jag and cosworth. calling on VW/AUDI.

ZfrkS62 · 09-20-2004, 10:52 PM

does VW own Bugatti too? If not, i say lets get them on the line.

CSedl87 · 09-21-2004, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by chipanggo

well, as bernie just said, if ever jordan and minardi go too, it is stipulated in agreement with the other teams that they will run 3rd cars. in a way, i don't see this as a bad idea. it would be more exciting to see 3 ferraris, 3 williamses and 3 mclarens battling at the front than a minardi and a jordan at the back.

If the McPlosions don't explode, then they might, big might, possibly make 4th or 5th. BAR, and Renault are just too strong of teams for McLaren to compete. Also to whoever said toyota has the strongest engine, not really. I'd say it goes Ferrari, BAR, BMW, Renault, Mercedes, sauber, then toyota, and then the cosworth engines. If Button doesn't move to Williams, imho he'll have matured more, and should do much better next year than this year. I'm still hoping that he takes a pole in the last couple races left before next year.

Toronto · 09-21-2004, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by CSedl87

Originally Posted by chipanggo

well, as bernie just said, if ever jordan and minardi go too, it is stipulated in agreement with the other teams that they will run 3rd cars. in a way, i don't see this as a bad idea. it would be more exciting to see 3 ferraris, 3 williamses and 3 mclarens battling at the front than a minardi and a jordan at the back.

If the McPlosions don't explode, then they might, big might, possibly make 4th or 5th. BAR, and Renault are just too strong of teams for McLaren to compete. Also to whoever said toyota has the strongest engine, not really. I'd say it goes Ferrari, BAR, BMW, Renault, Mercedes, sauber, then toyota, and then the cosworth engines. If Button doesn't move to Williams, imho he'll have matured more, and should do much better next year than this year. I'm still hoping that he takes a pole in the last couple races left before next year.

fist BAR engines overheat more then a cosworth does, so i don't know how you can rank them 2nd. Toyota has ran in more laps then mercedes has, so it doesn't look like a bad choice to start selling their engines to other companies, not that bad of an idea to have a jordan or minardi with the engine that claims to have the most HP.

o and sauber is a ferrari engine so it doesn't count

mindgam3 · 09-21-2004, 07:01 AM

I'd say its debatable but Ferrari, Williams or Toyota (IMO in that order) have the most powerful engines, followed by mercedes. Then probably BAR and the cosworths, Renault's engine isn't actually that powerful.

Reliability is a different issue though. My guess is McLaren have risked putting high risk parts on thier MB engine to get more power from it in the hope to try and beat ferrari this season. Hopefully it'll be more of a level playing field next year and the top teams will all have more equal reliability as it was before this year.

and bernie on the 3 car issue:
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=31140

ZfrkS62 · 09-21-2004, 10:07 AM

Reliability is a different issue though. My guess is McLaren have risked putting high risk parts on thier MB engine to get more power from it in the hope to try and beat ferrari this season. Hopefully it'll be more of a level playing field next year and the top teams will all have more equal reliability as it was before this year.

we'll have to wait and see what winter testing brings us for 2005. I have a feeling that Mercedes will have worked the kinks out of their engines by the time the red lights come on for the first race in '05 (i saw the schedule somewhere, i'll have to look again but i think Albert Park is still the first race of the year). Ferrari..well i think we can expect to see the same results from them unless Mosley decides to mess with the engine rules at the last minute. :roll:

I would say though that MB does have a more powerful engine than Ferrari, but the problem is it just doesn't make full power until the #6 connecting rod plows through the side of the block

mindgam3 · 09-21-2004, 10:39 AM

guess so, but if we see engine rules changing to a 2.4l V8 vormat, we could see BMW and Honda leaving altogether as well

ZfrkS62 · 09-21-2004, 10:52 AM

i think BMW will stay.Since th P84 is made in the same plant as the S54 and S62, i think it would just be a case of adapting the molds. BMW has the materials figured out IMO,so i think they would be able to adapt rather quickly. Honda i'm not so sure about, i don't think they have the budget to r&d a new engine. but i have heard some dangerous rumors about Ferrari packing it in if that happens :cry: . Why would Ferrari leave just because of the engine? probably a threat to their dominance. As for the smaller teams...wellllll.....depends on who they got to supply their engines. i couldn't imagine a V8 F1 engine costing a whole lot less than a V10 due to the shift in manufacturing. The alternative i guess would be for Jordan and Minardi to drop into F3000....? I'm not that familiar with that level of racing, but isnt that the engine they are using anyway? if so this whole essay was for nothing

anyhoo...an engine format shift would rustle a few more feathers.