Blue Devil Vette to be produced - now called Sting Ray

[graywolf624]

BTW the ZR1 is still lighter and most likely more powerful so why shouldnt they be compared???

The Bentley Continental GT is more powerful then a Mazda Miata.. That doesn't mean that comparing them is particularly useful. The ACR is aimed at the same category as the gt3. It isn't exactly a practical grocery getter. The ZR1, good bad or indifferent, is aimed at the guy cruising in his turbo or maybe gt2. Different market different constraints.

Heres another one. Its like comparing my 2008 Vette to a 2008 Lotus Exige. While they might perform similarly on the track, the comparison ends soon after when you realize anyone who drives the Lotus daily would have to be batshit crazy.

[SnakeBitten]

Originally Posted by RC45 Anyone with an IQ above room temperature can see that it is absurd. Typical Viper fanboye response. If Dodge built the ACR to take ont he ZR1 then are stupid idiots with no brains - they had no need to "take on the ZR1" it is a streetcar the American Club Racer, is a racecar - just like the previous ACR. How is the dyno chart weird? Because your precious Viper is not "on top"? The dynochart for your precious Viper looks weird? You know it has a variable timing cam right ? Think of it as a Viper with VTEC Does the ZR1 dyno look weird? That is what roots type blower torque curves look like. I am guessing you haven't seen many. It is a race car It is a race car It is not a race car - never was claimed to be one... It is a race car... No one ever said there was shame in it - however, look how one sided that comparison is... the Corvette is a in-the-traffic-with-creature-comforts-no-compromise-to-comfort car while the ACR, Scuderia, Superleggy and GT2 Clubsport are all race car versions of the cars - lets see the street car versions of those come out and play. Whats up with that? You want to compare cars, do so within the same category at least. The ZR1 is the King of the Hill - once again.. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

I forgot how ignorant your ass can be..Thanks for reminding me

Im a fan of both but because I feel they should be compared it mystically makes me a Viper fanboy

With your scenario it looks like you are a Vette fanboy using your logic....The only way for your "precious" Vette to remain king of the hill all around is to ignore the ACR...That way you can be king of the hill over the regular Viper...You do know that the 08 viper is a responce to the Z06 while the ACR is a responce to the ZR1 right cupcake?

You can hide behind the obvious but it wont change what the ACR was in responce to.....bottomline is that the ACR is NOT a no compromise racecar unless the owner choses to forgo the radio/ac etc....Its just like any other Viper except downforce and same interior[if the owner choses] and lightened suspension/brake pieces..Where is the roll cage??Fully stripped out interior??Why is there still leather seats???And radio and AC if the owner chooses???...I guess the Nismo 350z is a racecar too since it comes with downforce inducing bodywork lol...As well as the stock F430 as it comes with downforce as well[Not talking about the scuderia]....

BTW lets try to keep this above kindergarten level eh???

[SnakeBitten]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 The Bentley Continental GT is more powerful then a Mazda Miata.. That doesn't mean that comparing them is particularly useful. The ACR is aimed at the same category as the gt3. It isn't exactly a practical grocery getter. The ZR1, good bad or indifferent, is aimed at the guy cruising in his turbo or maybe gt2. Different market different constraints. Heres another one. Its like comparing my 2008 Vette to a 2008 Lotus Exige. While they might perform similarly on the track, the comparison ends soon after when you realize anyone who drives the Lotus daily would have to be batshit crazy.

The King of the hill title is about performance homey hate to break it to ya....Between Vette and Viper thats all it was every about...Not creature comforts, cup holders etc...IF what you an RC45 are claiming is actually correct then the Viper and Vette would never have been competing against one another as the regular Viper is far less comfortable/practical than any Corvette made since the Vipers existance...The fact that now some of you want to excuse the presense of the ACR boggles my mind....Its basically the same Viper except for OPTIONS to remove certain creature comforts, some downforce and lightened unsprung weight.....Hardly a fully focused racecar....

If they shouldnt be compared then the ZR1 shouldnt be compared to the regular Viper either...therefore the ZR1 cannot be labeled the king of the hill.....Simple logic.....No Viper is a better daily driver than a Vette...So lets pretend they shouldnt be compared than... You cant have it both ways...

[HeilSvenska]

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten IF what you an RC45 are claiming is actually correct then the Viper and Vette would never have been competing against one another as the regular Viper is far less comfortable/practical than any Corvette made since the Vipers existance...

You got it! Corvettes and Vipers don't compete in a same "class" as say... between a 3 series and an A4, but they are both still competing for the ultimate American performance car title.

Its basically the same Viper except for OPTIONS to remove certain creature comforts, some downforce and lightened unsprung weight.....Hardly a fully focused racecar....

Well, Chrysler's trying hard to market it as a race car if anything. You should know what ACR stands for. American Club Racer? It was designed to be a race car for amateur (and more) racers who might drive up to a track (with a support car, I guess), have run at a stock car category in a race, and drive it back home.

If they shouldnt be compared then the ZR1 shouldnt be compared to the regular Viper either...therefore the ZR1 cannot be labeled the king of the hill.....Simple logic.....No Viper is a better daily driver than a Vette...So lets pretend they shouldnt be compared than... You cant have it both ways...

Webster's defines "King of the Hill" as

Main Entry: king of the hill Part of Speech: n Definition: a recreational children's game based on attempts to reach the top of a hill or mound and keep possession of it

Corvette's always been the King of the Hill. Corvette lineup in general. GM and Chrysler's been pushing Corvettes and Vipers to be at the top of the American performance car pantheon, but we all know Corvettes always come out on top. (for a good reason) And as the new range topper, the ZR1 is indeed King of the Hill.

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by HeilSvenska You got it! Corvettes and Vipers don't compete in a same "class" as say... between a 3 series and an A4, but they are both still competing for the ultimate American performance car title. Well, Chrysler's trying hard to market it as a race car if anything. You should know what ACR stands for. American Club Racer? It was designed to be a race car for amateur (and more) racers who might drive up to a track (with a support car, I guess), have run at a stock car category in a race, and drive it back home. Webster's defines "King of the Hill" as Corvette's always been the King of the Hill. Corvette lineup in general. GM and Chrysler's been pushing Corvettes and Vipers to be at the top of the American performance car pantheon, but we all know Corvettes always come out on top. (for a good reason) And as the new range topper, the ZR1 is indeed King of the Hill.

King of the hill? Well, until the ACR and ZR-1 are on the street, the title still remains in the hands of Ford The chassis is far superior to that in the C6 Z-whatevers, or the SRT-10 ACR etc. .... power may be up on both cars compared to the GT, and the viper has the added benefit of "n/a" motor... and "feels" about as fast as a GT, perhaps slightly quicker in a roll from 50-100 by a fraction.

Of the bunch, Ford were the only to go with a proper mid-engined layout too in the end, the GT became the first mass production American Exotic car (saleen's aren't mass produced, and neither were Vector's) . People claimed the GT market would tank... but as it turns out, you still can't find a low miles car for below MSRP!

Back to the topic at hand.... can the ZR-1 be compared to the ACR? They aren't the same kind of car, aimed at the same kind of person; but the comparisons will happen inevitably.... the GT2 and GT3 are aimed at different buyers as well.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten I forgot how ignorant your ass can be..Thanks for reminding me

If by ignorant - youmean correcting every one of your factually incorrect statements then so be it.

You were wrong, incorrect and misinformed on each of your points.

I am sorry - I am not going to sit around and watch someone spread rubbish lies and misinformation.

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten Im a fan of both but because I feel they should be compared it mystically makes me a Viper fanboy

You pulled rubbish nonsense and misinformation out of thin air.

I used proof fact and known information.

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten With your scenario it looks like you are a Vette fanboy using your logic....

I am NOT a ZR1 fan - I am simply exposing you to the facts.

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten The only way for your "precious" Vette to remain king of the hill all around is to ignore the ACR...That way you can be king of the hill over the regular Viper...You do know that the 08 viper is a responce to the Z06 while the ACR is a responce to the ZR1 right cupcake?

You again are incorrect wrong and misinformed.

Just because YOU say the ACR is in response to the ZR1 does not mak it so - Dodge doesnt even say so - the ACR has NEVER been inresponse to a street Corvette - it never has to be - it is a race car.

The current ACR (I am sure you are aware of the previous ACR's) and the ZR1 were both on the drawing board a long time ago, independantly of each oher and their predescessors.

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten You can hide behind the obvious but it wont change what the ACR was in responce to.....

Again - you are wrong, incorrect and misinformed.

Why would Dodge counter a car that cannot be raced with a race car ?

If anything, the ACR is in response the C5 Z06 and C6 Coupe (not the Z06) as the C6 Coupe in modified form (and until recently the C5 Z06) were being competitivly raced agains Viper ACR's and Competition Coupes in US competition... but the C6 Z06 has never been raced - ever, in any class - (and until the limited edition of the specially built C6 Z06 GT3 racer in europe (which is not even a GM car in the end but rather a privately modded car) never even been considered for racing)

Again, you are rather poorly equipped to debate these cars at this level, and still remain arrogant in your respones - you have been soundly trounced with fact and truth - walk away while you still have a shred of dignity left.

There is no class for the C6 Z06 to race in - Dodge has no reason to counter the Z06 with a race car - please, if you want to argue debate or discuss, please arm yourself with facts and knowledge before you come troll and start arguments for arguments sake.

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten bottomline is that the ACR is NOT a no compromise racecar unless the owner choses to forgo the radio/ac etc....Its just like any other Viper except downforce and same interior[if the owner choses] and lightened suspension/brake pieces..

Wow - again - you are ignorant of he facts - yet keep arguing like an idiot. You are simply acting like a troll to start some kind of e-drama here - even when you are proven to be incorrect ininformed and wrong you keep arguing - If you cant discuss and debate with facts, and have to resprt to being a troll you are needed on these forums.. I really feel like reporting your troll like behaviour to the site operator as people like you the site can do without - debating is one thing, but tryong to forcefully maintain a point of view when you are wrong is just being a stupid troll.

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten Where is the roll cage??

Your point? The car is a homologated legal class race car that would get a SERIES spec roll cage welded in at the time of prep (You knew that roll cages were series spec right? and not univesl - thats why few cars come with them) - the C6 Z06 cannot even receive a series spec rollcage for anyone series - as the frame is ALUMINUM... again, why would Dodge counter a street car with a race car? They wouldnt as the ACR is NOT in response the C6 Z06.

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten Fully stripped out interior??Why is there still leather seats???And radio and AC if the owner chooses???...I guess the Nismo 350z is a racecar too since it comes with downforce inducing bodywork lol...As well as the stock F430 as it comes with downforce as well[Not talking about the scuderia]....

Again - please stick to facts and truths not what YOU perceive to be so.

If you are not prepared to keep your discussions at the factual level, why bother coming here to discuss things anyway?

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten BTW lets try to keep this above kindergarten level eh???

Dont even try patronize me or anyone else that corrects you when you are wrong.

Just dont bother participating - MW is not one of your "fan boy" web forums where false information is spread or tolerated.

[Shinigami]

I wonder if they'll be selling this over here in Switzerland. I'm a little sad to see it's not using the 7 liter engine from the Z06. I'd have much rather seen that pushed NA to 600 hp and beyond (or even with an SC/Turbo) then the one they went with.

It's a bloody shame the dealers here are ripping ones ass off when trying to sell the Vette's tho'. I mean, the Z06 sells around $70k in the US, which translated to Swiss francs (due to the weakening dollar) would be like 80k swiss francs, yet the dealers have the audacity to rip us off to the tune of 120k swiss francs for one. *groan*

If the prices followed suit, the car would be such an amazing deal, but as it stands, at those prices one can get second hand supercars from Ferrari and the like. Of course if they're worth that money is another question altogether, but still...

Perhaps with a few hardened discussions, one could get the price down quite a lot

Anyway, rock-on this ZR1, it can only mean better deals in the long run

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by Shinigami ......

Its not cheap to ship cars, but, for sure cheaper then 120,000 swiss francs... a Dealer option on the vette is even to take delivery from the factory... so if there is a will, there is a way.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by nthfinity Its not cheap to ship cars, but, for sure cheaper then 120,000 swiss francs... a Dealer option on the vette is even to take delivery from the factory... so if there is a will, there is a way.

Dealer gouging is a well refined practice that folks the world over practice - and from what I recall Switzerland is VERY strict about "grey market" imports - as in its not practically possible to do.

I seem to remember a gent on the Z06 Forums went to great expense to import a C5 Z06, and in the end had to give up the car, resell it to a German garage, that then sold the car back to him as a German Used car to get it into Switzerland - and I believe in the end it is not registered to a Swiss address.

But then again the entire story may just have been e-drama

[HeilSvenska]

Originally Posted by nthfinity King of the hill? Well, until the ACR and ZR-1 are on the street, the title still remains in the hands of Ford The chassis is far superior to that in the C6 Z-whatevers, or the SRT-10 ACR etc. .... power may be up on both cars compared to the GT, and the viper has the added benefit of "n/a" motor... and "feels" about as fast as a GT, perhaps slightly quicker in a roll from 50-100 by a fraction.

Well. I didn't mention the Ford GT, because it's a one-off special. The same reason I didn't mention the Saleen S7. etc...

Viper and Corvette, though. As long as Dodge and Chevy exist, I doubt they'll ever go away.

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by HeilSvenska Well. I didn't mention the Ford GT, because it's a one-off special. The same reason I didn't mention the Saleen S7. etc... Viper and Corvette, though. As long as Dodge and Chevy exist, I doubt they'll ever go away.

if by "one off" you mean nearly 4000 of them, then yeah, its "one off" (more produced then planned ZR-1 or ACR production BTW)

[SnakeBitten]

Well Im not gonna read "War and Peace" revised and lengthened by RC45 But I gather by the blah blah blah that you told me a thing or two...Is that the gist lol...

Anyway SRT themselves when asked about the ZR1 responded that they aint worried and had something for it...Tah dah the ACR.....Bottomline is these cars will be pitted against each other by the mags regardless of whatever you or I feel is right.....They are comparable peformancewise...Remember they tested the GT3 vs the Z06 quite a few times eventhough by your standards they should not be compared.....

As for they guy looking up in the dictionary for King of the hill LOL.....Dont overthink things....King of the hill has always been about performance with these two...Not cup holders, or interior fit an finish or how hedonistically they excel......Performance period....The C6 Z06 took that title convincingly as it outperformed the Viper...Now the 08 Viper took the title back...Oh but wait...They shouldnt be compared right??? No one told the masses or the magazines....bottomline these two will always be linked to each other and thus will always be compared......

[graywolf624]

They are comparable peformancewise...Remember they tested the GT3 vs the Z06 quite a few times eventhough by your standards they should not be compared.....

Quite the contrary. In GMs line you have the turbo or gt2 = the ZR1. The GT3= the ZO6. The base = the base. This ACR is way more comparable to the Z06 not the ZR1. For that same reason you dont see the gt2 compared to the z06, only the gt3. If you recall clarkson said the z06 was too much of a track car, theres a common thread their somewhere.

[RC45]

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten Well Im not gonna read "War and Peace" revised and lengthened by RC45 But I gather by the blah blah blah that you told me a thing or two...Is that the gist lol... Anyway SRT themselves when asked about the ZR1 responded that they aint worried and had something for it...Tah dah the ACR.....Bottomline is these cars will be pitted against each other by the mags regardless of whatever you or I feel is right.....They are comparable peformancewise...Remember they tested the GT3 vs the Z06 quite a few times eventhough by your standards they should not be compared..... As for they guy looking up in the dictionary for King of the hill LOL.....Dont overthink things....King of the hill has always been about performance with these two...Not cup holders, or interior fit an finish or how hedonistically they excel......Performance period....The C6 Z06 took that title convincingly as it outperformed the Viper...Now the 08 Viper took the title back...Oh but wait...They shouldnt be compared right??? No one told the masses or the magazines....bottomline these two will always be linked to each other and thus will always be compared......

Wrong - they wont be compared "by magazines" - because the cars will not be a performance match in a street test - the ACR would lose thereby making for bad press for Dodge - there is no point in comparing the 2.

None.

Period.

And again you have proven you are nothing but a troll as you are unale to debate the facts - you have none to present.

You refuse to debate facts and just come to MW to spew tripe and cause trouble.

Post reported as "troll" - until such time as you can actually have a sensible debate it would probably be best if you could be banned from posting in the US car forums.

Luck for you no such option exists

I wonder if you troll in person?

[nthfinity]

Originally Posted by SnakeBitten Well Im not gonna read "War and Peace" revised and lengthened by RC45 But I gather by the blah blah blah that you told me a thing or two...Is that the gist lol...

Don't want to respond to him w/out responding to what he said, that is useless trolling. You have opinions we may agree and disagree on; lets not just stir the pot, and name call. Thanks