MC 12 in JGTC aka Super GT

[Mr.Vercetti]

Having the MC12 in the SuperGT is wonderful news. I wish they wont turn it into a hideous car with all these "ricy" wings/spoilers...

[coombsie66]

SFD, i think you need anger management classes mate .

Oh, and just so you know, a 'standard' (your words not mine lol) h-pattern gear box (all be it with dogs rather than synchros) can easily be converted to a sequential set up, simply with the addition of a ratchet change mechanism on the shifter forks.

You talk about these different technological advances as if the driver doesnt do anything anymore.
The australian V8 supercars use manually adjustable roll bars, and have done for years, this looks to be a similar system (although a bit more agricultural) than the JGTC set up. You consider this 'cheating' the main reason they use this is to account for the fuel weight drop off, as the tank is hung out over the rear axle, and more so for weather condition changes.
There just isnt enough time, or feedback to be able to do what you are talking about '.....*Ooppppps looks like my rear end is a little loose, lets stiffen the rear damping a bit..click click..done*' if a driver was capable of doing that (ie investigate setup changes during a race) whilst driving at 10/10ths then i applaud him.


All you did in this thread is shoot down every usefull comment 911GT3 made, and dig yourself into a rather large hole.

[SFDMALEX]

Anger managment? Mate I'm not angry, tis just that our friend here jumped here to call me a bullshiter that is trying to bullshit him while all I was doing was trying to set him on the right path. But his "borded line fanatic" attitude got him where he is.


It takes the driver to seconds to make those changes when the pit tells him what to change, hence its not the driver doing the monitoring and changes cause they still run a one way telemetry.
If the driver hit the track, had no radio communication, or rather radio com where the team cant see what the car is doing and the driver made the changes himself then I applaud him aswel. Tis not the case though. Its not pron they are watching on pit screen mate


Dig my self a whole? Now if you find an argument where I lost please show me because I dont see one. All I see is this guy ignore everything I said and continue to bring in bullshit which played no relivance to whole discussion. Now if I did dig my self a 6 footer Id still see the surface

[SFDMALEX]

Originally Posted by gangajas Come on, we are in the 21st Century, technology is something good and necessary. But maybe you 'd prefer something like this:

Who said we dont need technology? I am all for it.

Use technology to make lighter better stronger faster components. Use technology to create better more inteligent ECUs, use technology to create better gearboxes, do all that. Use technology to create better aerodynamics.

Now use technology to manage throttle, steering, gearbox inputs? Hell no. Or have the engineers in the pit tell you what to change when you are in trouble with the help of a few knob turns. Keep that for old rich farts in their Mercs to keep them safe.

When I hear Clarkson say that Ferrari said that the fatest Ferrari customer laps teh ENzo 1 or 2 seconds behind the test drivers time around Fiorano something is wrong. ALthough I am sure that statement is not exactly correct but I woudlnt be surprised.

[SFDMALEX]

Originally Posted by FoxFour Calm down guys! It seems to me that both of you are very knowledgeable about such things. This is turning into a good thread, except for the name-calling.

But name calling is fun If I meant what I called him do you think I would still be talking to him

I just dont appriciate people calling me a bullshiter. bullshiter is a big word on JW.

And when someone calls me somehting I give them the royal treatment mate, Ill cover them in more shit then they ever have been

[SFDMALEX]

Originally Posted by nthfinity valentino rossi was within 1 second of MS record Fiorano time... with Zero F1 experience... sure Rossi is a very talented Moto GP driver... but 0 experience... its just sooo much less dependant on the driver.

Thanks man, I needed that, just for the sake of supporting my argument,, which most people in this thread still dont get lol.

[SFDMALEX]

Originally Posted by Mr.Vercetti Having the MC12 in the SuperGT is wonderful news. I wish they wont turn it into a hideous car with all these "ricy" wings/spoilers...

Not a chance, if it aint rice, it aint nice in Super GT.

[911GT1]

Sorry didnt get online for the past few days coz my modem was down.

1st thing first, let get it straight. I didnt start calling by anybody a liar. i started by saying

Oh please... most of you dont know what the hell you're talking about. I bet none of you guys actually watch any JGTC races.

and someone suddenly get touchy. And I said "...I THINK...", not flat out accusing you of being a liar. You're the one who 1st call me a fucking idiot, I didnt even resort to swearing in my posts :roll:. I also said bring out the FACTS or at least a credible source of somesort to prove your argument which till now you didnt. What you did was misintepreting/assuming what the rules are. Everybody who read the thread seems to understand it, which is beyond me why you didnt. How the hell am I going to take you seriously when you cant even read properly? And am I wrong when i said you'll prolly never watch a JGTC race? Am I wrong when i said you didnt know the intricate detail of a JGTC cars? Am I wrong when I said you didnt know the innerworkings of SuperGT teams and races?

Read the rules again, where did it said that the cars have to use traditional pattern H boxes? You only assume that since autoboxes arent allowed in JGTC and must thought sequential gearboxes are semi auto gearboxes. You want me to explain the difference between semi automatic, full automatic and sequential gearbox? I'm not an engineer and I dont pretend to, but the simplest explanation that I can find is pick up a copy of any WRC game for Playstation2 and play it. After a while you should know the difference.

You didnt know what exactly all the controls in the cockpit does and assume that the soft hard lever stands for adjusting the suspension. It clearly states

Devices that allow a driver to adjust shock absorbers and suspension springs from the driver's seat when the car is in motion

are not allowed. Wowm I guess you' must be one of JGTC race engineers since you know "exactly" what it did. And I ask you a question, if the rules clearly states that adjustement are not allowed, what engineer would be a stupid enough to jeopardize a $30million factory effort by labelling a component that cleary illegal and can result disqalification? It could be for adjusting the LSD, diffrentials, verocity of the viscous clutch; who knows? Unless you're part of the team you dont.

I answered every single accusation that you made. Please read the thread back. I shoot down the telemetry argument, the TCS (and btw should'nt the TCS be more apparent on corner exits rather than the entry?), the MaccaF1, the "ridicoulous bodykits", the Lemans comparison, and yes, a real Prodrive F550 get it ask kicked all the time in JGTC and in some track (particularly tight like sugo) even a GT300 lapped faster than during the races. A FIA-GT viper was run in JGTC but in GT300 class since they tried to run it unrestricted against GT500 in suzuka during off season test but it lapped the track 2 sec faster than a restricted GT500 NSX with a 3L V6 NA engine. And if it run 2 sec faster on unrestriced 700bhp, imaginie the laptime with 500bhp restriction. Not to mention the weight handicapped.

Now please, please tell me what effect slipper clutch has to do with anything said previously? You just pulled that out of your ass. What relivance does it have to any of the argument above from making your self look further like an idiout with the whole gearbox talk. You do realize that TCS and clutches work completly differently right? So they can ditch from 6th to 1st no problem. They dont have to match rpms, what else? Please go on...All this FULLY MANUAL facts you lay down are great

You dont even know what a slipper clutch/viscous clutch is? OMG you're beyond help. Please ask you smart race engineer buddies on what it is. The other name for it is back torque limiter.

And you do realize that a driving aid does not have to be computer operated in order to be considered a driving aid right? Any adjustments from inside the cockpit apart from the basics such as brake bias is considered an aid. Being able to adjust all fours, having electornicaly and not even hydrolycaly operated steering column is considered an aid. If I drive and start to loose grip and have the ability to adjust my steering rack ratios thats an aid. If I drive and find that I the front ARB should be stiffer and adjust that from the cockpit thats an aid. All of the above aid the driver to overcome a probem he is experiancing.

Did i ever disagree on this? Have you actually been reading? I said they are there, I'm not denying it. I said adjusting these shits manually took a lot of skills.
For eg. You can fly an F117 without the computer and adjusting the wings manually, but even the most skilled pilot would crash after 30 minutes taking off. It's impossible to fly it without computers making fine adjustment to the wing every milisecond.
Same case senario, you can made every single part of the car adjustable for the driver, but at the end of the day he might not touch anything at all because he knows he'll fuck things up (his race setup). It's impossible to adjust everything MANUALLY on the fly during a race and overtaking 50 cars (which 2/3 are the GT300 cars which are lot slower on the corners) that are on track at the same time. The only chance of overtaking GT300 cars are on the corners because their braking distance, topspeed and accel are almost similar with GT500 cars. You watch lemans and I know you know that most dangerous place to overtake a car is at the corners. Now, if theres a program on the car that changes all the setup/setting of the car by a mere flick of the switch I can said that you're right. bit thats not the case in JGTC, you have to adjust "everything" manually. If the manual adjustment is done by a handle manipulated by the software, then maybe I'll agree with you. BUT the rules clearly state every adjustable part must be connected mechanically.

And i didnt even get to the weight handicapped system which help to level the playing field significantly. It offers a much closer racing and action pack weekend than any ALMS races.

So please... I didnt dig a hole. And most of the observers in this discussion agrees. You are the one who's digging the hole. Yes, you manage to quite "owned" yourself.

edit: oh btw my Motec software was supplied with the copy of GTR. Yes, there are datas coming in and I'm still learning to read it with help from guys at black hole. I'm a serious sim racer too....

[McLaren4eVa]

That Was Fun Hearing U 2 Squabble Oh Well Still Dnt Like JGTC Coz They Took The Awesome Xanavi Skyline Out Loved That Thing To Bitz Oh Well F1 Jus 4Weeks Away.