Corvette C6 Topgear Track time.

[TT]

Originally Posted by T-Bird well when you consider we have some of the worse traffic imaginable where you can be sitting in one place for 10 minutes then move 1-3 car lengths then repeat for 1-2 hours then you would understand why automatics are a nice feature.

Dang, public transportations would be even better (j/k since I probably take a public mean of transportation every 10-12 months .. so I should shut up )

[666fast]

A Sports car gear change should have a short throw,

Tell that to Keonigsegg. The stick on that thing is a foot and a half tall.

The heavy, clunky gear change on the C6 is just another reason not to buy it.

Driven a C6? Didn't think so. Take Top gears review with a grain of salt. If I had a TV show I could make the M3's gear changes look clunky if I wanted too.
I haven't driven a C6 either, but I have driven a C5 and it was just fine. Clutch pedal wasn't heavy and the gear changes were easy. I can only expect the same for the C6's transmission.
Hell, the stick in my friends truck is smoother than what Hammond showed in the C6.

[T-Bird]

yes the train is a very good alternative but some people don't want to have the hassle of paying to park at the train station then hope you didn't miss the train and then sit on that for a while then to get into the city and have to either walk to work or catch a taxi/bus when you might have a free parking spot at work where you don't have to work around public transportation schedules and in some areas public transportation is out of the question see especially where I live it's extremely spread out it's all highways even going through downtown parts of the cities there are highways. We are setup very differently than Europe which is good and bad depending on the situation.

[TransAm]

The gearchange on my US car is fine, has a relatively short throw and the clutch is reasonably light (I mean it's heavier than a civic, but postively pleasurable compared to a Mustang).

And what's all this about Corvettes being compared to TVRs and 911s? A TVR costs about 35-40k (UK Pounds) a Corvette is like $37k, or the price of a V6 Mondeo/Vectra at the current exchange rate!!

If you start comparing cars on a price bracket basis, nothing touches the Corvette*

*Opinion of English guy living in the US. Not necessarily 100% fact.

[mindgam3]

Originally Posted by 666fast A Sports car gear change should have a short throw, Tell that to Keonigsegg. The stick on that thing is a foot and a half tall.

How does that mean it has a long throw? Its tall so its closer to the steering wheel for quicker changes, i'm sure it has a very short throw.

[SDK2003]

Originally Posted by 666fast A Sports car gear change should have a short throw, Tell that to Keonigsegg. The stick on that thing is a foot and a half tall.

The size of the gear stick has nothing to do with the length of the 'throw'

[Guibo]

Didn't anyone notice that when the Daily Telegraph drove the very same car, they noted its shift action was "fingertip light?" Makes me wonder what Richard Hammond drives on a daily basis, if he thinks the C6's gearshift and clutch are so tough. (The Telegraph made no mention of an excessivley heavy clutch either.)

For those of you who think you're not sacrificing anything in buying a TVR, think again. There are currently anywhere between 30 and 50 at Blackpool awaiting rebuilds. Some of these cars are there for the 2nd or 3rd time. For a small, (once) independent company with limited resources (money) that's probably to be expected. Although you don't hear anything on that scale from the Lotus, Morgan, or Noble forums. For a mass market manufacturer (like GM), these kinds of numbers are unheard of.
It's well known that TVR quality control is horrendous. (They even admitted to using a faulty batch of finger followers in their Speed Six, and redesigned the routing of their throttle cables, which were prone to snapping; something that mass manufacturers like GM take for granted nowadays.) Sure, the interior may look better aesthetically, but upon closer inspection, there are huge lapses in quality control. Yes, the interiors are swathed in leather. But you'll not find the quality in stitching as you'd find on a Ferrari or higher-end BMW. Owners often complain of rattling dashboards, trim that becomes unglued, excessive glue around trim, leaky boots and footwells, electronic gremlins, analog speedometers that read differently from the digital readouts, etc.
I'm sure every marque has their fair share of problems, but if you actually DO the research, you'll see that build quality is not high on the list of TVR strengths.
The Corvette, on the other hand, has been trading places with none other than the Porsche 911 for top spot as Premium Sports car in Initial Quality over the past 2-3 years. Last time a TVR was included in a quality survey, it placed near dead last.

Regarding the Corvette's antiquated chassis, take a look at how it fares against the Tuscan S in this article (on British roads no less):
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/roadtes...y.php?id=25805
The Tuscan was an utter mess in the corners.

So the Corvette will do well over 100K miles before a rebuild (250K is more like it), is backed by a mass-market warranty policy, will take you and the missus on a long-distance trip in utter comfort and security in any weather short of a blizzard, will get 25+ US mpg at cruising speed, has servicing costs only a fraction of that of a TVR, and (in midlevel base trim) will lap TopGear's/Lotus' track (for which it was not designed) with a time not too terribly far off from a Lotus Exige (which was developed on that track). Yeah, a Caterham R500 will beat it. But if you're going to slag off the Corvette for perceived quality issues, you might want to rethink why you'd spend money on the Caterham and not the Corvette. You'll find it has more to do with bias against the Corvette, rather than any substantial shortcomings of the car itself.

[T-Bird]

finally (I'm guessing European) a person has admitted that the Corvette is better than most of these track day cars and TVR's some people are waay to biased.
Also Richard drives an old 911(highly biased) and a Land Rover.

[mindgam3]

I'm not being biased at all, its my opinion, i mentioned at least 15 direct rivals to the vette, each of which i would easily prefer.

And if you read that article more carefully, they rate the TVR above the corvette....

Plus the test was conducted on wet roads....

"it is explosively quick, quicker even than the rocket-sled ZO6"

If the vette really is that good, why dosen't it sell in europe??

from another evo article with the 350C in the dry:

"I expected the TVR to be a nasty, edgy animal of a thing, all snappy, unpredictable oversteer, hair-raising wheelspin and tarmac-scrapingly under-damped. What we have is a driveable, controllable, entertaining car."

"It's feelful and allows the car to be placed accurately on these narrow bends but in the wet you've got to be on your mettle."

[SDK2003]

Originally Posted by mindgam3 If the vette really is that good, why dosen't it sell in europe??

Exactly, if they were are as good as you lot are posting then why aren't they selling more of them over here ??!!?

[Guibo]

Originally Posted by SDK2003 Originally Posted by mindgam3 If the vette really is that good, why dosen't it sell in europe?? Exactly, if they were are as good as you lot are posting then why aren't they selling more of them over here ??!!?

There are just as many badge snobs in Europe as there are in the States...
Also, as already noted, taxes on displacement. In the early days of the C5 Corvette being released, GM of Europe had the bright idea to introduce it mainly with the automatic transmission, a fact reflected in their press fleets to European markets. No wonder it did miserably.

[mindgam3]

Or maybe the fact that people don't want to buy it also had something to do with it....

If it generally was a better car than all its rivals then it would sell more than it does no matter what. You can't pin it on displacement taxes either, when you're spending £40k on a car, a couple of £100 more a year isn't going to break the bank. And as you've said the vette has good mpg which would probably cancel that out with other cars that i've mentioned in the long run.

[Guibo]

Originally Posted by mindgam3 And if you read that article more carefully, they rate the TVR above the corvette....

Did they really? I thought evo gave them both 4 stars.

Originally Posted by mindgam3 Plus the test was conducted on wet roads....

Which would only emphasize any shortcomings in each car's suspension, the Corvette's antiquated leaf-spring system included. On wet roads, one would also think the Corvette should be at a disadvantage due to its wider tires (more chance of hydroplaning).

Originally Posted by mindgam3 "it is explosively quick, quicker even than the rocket-sled ZO6"

How would they know? Did they measure it? No. But with the TVR's superior power/weight ratio AND shorter gearing, one would have to be suspicious if the TVR weren't quicker.

Originally Posted by mindgam3 from another evo article with the 350C in the dry: "I expected the TVR to be a nasty, edgy animal of a thing, all snappy, unpredictable oversteer, hair-raising wheelspin and tarmac-scrapingly under-damped. What we have is a driveable, controllable, entertaining car." "It's feelful and allows the car to be placed accurately on these narrow bends but in the wet you've got to be on your mettle."

2 out of 3 drivers also said they'd like the handling to be "less challenging."
In a review of the T350T, they noted:
"Like the T350C, the T suffers from disconcerting brake feel and a hyper-sensitive (although not in TVR terms) steering rack that seems eager to lunge at an apex but not so keen on giving up any information about what's going on at the surface.
On the track this means you really have to ease yourself into pushing at the T350T's very high limits, learning to judge when the grip is running out rather than feeling it. The seats don't help here either, as you seem to be forever sliding from side-to-side, which robs you of another sensory contact point. Fortunately the T350T is essentially progressive, being set-up to understeer first and then wait for you to either back off or push on to the rich rewards or dire consequences beyond.
On the road you'll rarely trouble the front Goodyears' grip, but it still takes some time to get the T350T to flow rather than bite into a corner.
Throw in a poor surface and the T350T can feel ragged as the wheels hop and skip over bumps and you're thrown off line."

Did TVR fit the T350T with suspension from Charlton Heston's chariot? Sorta sounds like it, no?

[Guibo]

Originally Posted by mindgam3 If it generally was a better car than all its rivals then it would sell more than it does no matter what. You can't pin it on displacement taxes either, when you're spending £40k on a car, a couple of £100 more a year isn't going to break the bank. And as you've said the vette has good mpg which would probably cancel that out with other cars that i've mentioned in the long run.

Just a quick question: is the displacement tax applied only to individuals, or is there any impact on a corporation as well?

You're already on record as saying you'd rather have an R500, despite the fact that the C6 is infinitely more usable and has build quality at least as good as, if not better, than the Caterham. And people are under the impression that they lose nothing (in terms of reliability, durability, quality, convencience, etc.) when they go the TVR route. Well, that pretty much explains the stigma against the Corvette, now doesn't it?

[mindgam3]

Originally Posted by Guibo Originally Posted by mindgam3 If it generally was a better car than all its rivals then it would sell more than it does no matter what. You can't pin it on displacement taxes either, when you're spending £40k on a car, a couple of £100 more a year isn't going to break the bank. And as you've said the vette has good mpg which would probably cancel that out with other cars that i've mentioned in the long run. Just a quick question: is the displacement tax applied only to individuals, or is there any impact on a corporation as well? You're already on record as saying you'd rather have an R500, despite the fact that the C6 is infinitely more usable and has build quality at least as good as, if not better, than the Caterham. And people are under the impression that they lose nothing (in terms of reliability, durability, quality, convencience, etc.) when they go the TVR route. Well, that pretty much explains the stigma against the Corvette, now doesn't it?

Why does it matter if it impacts on the coorporation as well? Thats not going to affect whether an individual buys a car or not.

I am indeed on the record for saying i'd rather have a R500 than a vette; the vettes hardly in the same league as the R500 performance wise. I also said, if i was going to have a performance car it would be a second car.

I have also mentioned similarly priced, more usable, better quality and roughly same performance as the C6. Everybody who is going to buy a TVR is almost certainly a petrol head and therefore knows about TVR's reliability issues, they are getting better though, and I know a fair few people who haven't had any problems at all with theirs.

I also said at the end of the day it's down to personal preference. I persoanlly would never buy a vette as their are many more better options, and at least in europe their seems to be a lot of people that agree with me....