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Old 10-06-2004, 07:33 PM   #1
coombsie66
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Default Sequential turbo information

Hi guys, my recent literature review essay for university has the title: 'Novel concepts in turbocharging required to ensure compliance with stringent emission regulations, including sequential turbocharging.'

Anyone have any handy links lying about they'd like to throw my way!
All i seem to find on searches is a poorly written journo cop out of BMW's new sequential system, lacking any detail whatsoever! :roll:
I think vauxhall have a sequential turbo diesel they are developing at the moment, so any details on anthing would be a help.
And no rush, its quite a long term thing (finished for january 2005) so if anyone stumbles upon any info could you be kind enough to post it here.
Has St-Anger left yet? I think he could have a few ideas on the subject!
Cheers guys.
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Old 10-06-2004, 07:52 PM   #2
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Uhm, I suppose that you are not looking for the explanation on how the simple principle of a sequential bi-turbo works?

In short:
The sequential turbo system works by the primary turbocharger receiving exhaust gas from all the rotors to spool faster, therefore increasing low speed torque and helping to remove the dreaded turbo lag. The 2nd turbo whilst spinning is still yet to provide any boost. At a pre-determined speed the 2nd turbo spools up to add full boost. This results in effortless performance in conjunction with the rotary engines natural smoothness & flexibility.

You might try to find tech data about cars that have sequential turbo's, like the infamous Porsche 959, the RX7 and the latest Toyota Supra.


A nice page about turbo-tech: http://www.mazdarotary.net/turbo.htm
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Old 10-06-2004, 08:02 PM   #3
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^^ Cheers, yeah i know the general concept.
Im looking more towards the recent applications of sequential turbocharging to high efficiency low emmisions engines, but retaining the performance. Eg BMW's recent 3.5 straight six bi-turbo.
Basically, reducing the compression ratio allows for lower NOx emmisions, but this in turn means greater lag for a single large turbo capable of boosting to high performance levels at a higher RPM, so a smaller turbo is required for the boosting at low RPM when the exhaust gasses have lower entropy to be converted to the rotational inertia of the turbocharger.
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Old 10-07-2004, 11:02 AM   #4
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I think I have some more detailed info about BMW's 535d engine somewhere lying at home. I'll try to scan/upload it later this evening or tomorrow.

But I don't have any good info about the Opel OPC sequential turbo diesel engine.
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Old 10-07-2004, 11:33 AM   #5
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is the twin scroll turbo charging the same thing?
i know mitsu and subie uses them in their cars

well heres a little bit of info of twin-scroll
http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/050103.html
http://www.forcedperformance.net/faq.aspx
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Old 10-07-2004, 01:21 PM   #6
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twin scroll is a super charger. i've never heard of a turbo one?
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Old 10-07-2004, 01:51 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by stracing
i know mitsu and subie uses them in their cars
Originally Posted by number77
twin scroll is a super charger. i've never heard of a turbo one?
well you're wrong
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Old 10-07-2004, 03:02 PM   #8
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^^ Ive never heard of them being called twin scroll turbo's either. Variable vane technology i believe is the correct name, and unfortunately my supervisor has exhausted that subject, and is therefore looking at the sequential route (hence my essay) so im afraid its sequential turbo info im mostly looking for. I may include some info on variable vane turbine housings.
WutPutt: If you could find that info it would be great! Cheers.
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Old 10-07-2004, 06:54 PM   #9
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You seem to know quite a lot about the subject already, so what are you really looking for?
- How they got to validate the high emission standards?
- How the sequential process works exactly (which turbo kicks in when)?
- How the turbos spool up and how fast?
- Which kind of ram-air technology they use for the turbo?
Be more precise pls.

I have to add that I'm no tech-nerd but just theoretically interested in such matters.
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Old 10-07-2004, 08:38 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by number77
twin scroll is a super charger. i've never heard of a turbo one?
I think you are thinking of a twin-screw supercharger. And I have also never heard of a twin scroll turbo.
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Old 10-07-2004, 10:26 PM   #11
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try www.SAE.org if you havent already, they should have tons of more academic type books and plus you get 20% off books if u're a member...PM me if u want me to buy them for u since i'm currently a member

http://www.sae.org/servlets/productD...D=2001-01-0666
http://www.sae.org/servlets/productD...PROD_CD=910010

just as some examples
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Old 10-07-2004, 10:32 PM   #12
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RX-7, EVO-8, JDM STi all uses twin scroll turbo charger.....

http://www.mazda.com/history/rotary/e3-1.html

They tend to give better response...anyways, just look it up google, there are plenty of info
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Old 10-08-2004, 05:46 PM   #13
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Twin Scroll Turbo's just means the turbo (single one) has a double housing for the exhaust side. So the inlet side of the turbine has two passages. This is only interesting if the exhaust manifold is divided into two parts, so exhaust pulses are min or less separated. The reason for this concept is to reduce turbo lag.
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Old 10-08-2004, 06:01 PM   #14
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Man, I wish I had Uni essays like that!

Shame I am of no help what so ever though lol Good luck on that one mate.
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Old 10-08-2004, 06:33 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by coombsie66
WutPutt: If you could find that info it would be great! Cheers.
I messed up a little bit saying I had some detailed info at home about the 535d, cause I haven’t, I confused it with an article I have about the E60 M5 engine. I hope to ease the pain with some highres tech-pics I ordered. I’ll receive them somewhere next week.

But I can give some more info about multi-stage turbocharged engines. You already know how the system works and what the point of it is. So I’ll try to give some more detailed info. Sadly I don’t have loads of info, but nevertheless here it goes:


1.9 Opel OPC diesel

Opel introduced a multi-stage turbocharged diesel engine on their Vectra OPC prototype end 2003. This engine is based on Alfa/Fiat’s 1.9 JTD 16v diesel engine. With the multi-stage turbocharging it produces 212 bhp and 400 Nm of torque (@ 1400 rpm). Since the filling efficiency of the cylinders is augmented with the multi-stage turbocharging concept.



So how is this system controlled? In below pic gives the scheme of the twinturbo concept for the OPC diesel. Both intake and exhaust have their valves. The one in the intake is actuated by a pressure difference and the one in the exhaust is electronically controlled. The exhaust manifold is directly connected to both big (below on the picture) and small turbo (above on the pictures). The pipe going to the small turbo has a high flow resistance like you can see on the above picture of the engine. The pipe going to the big turbo has a far larger section and lays more inline with the exhaust manifold. But a valve controls the flow going through this pipe.
At the intake side the airflow always passes through the big turbocompressor. After the big compressor the flow can go two separate ways: via the small turbocompressor or just directly to the intake manifold (and thus bypassing the small compressor). Notice also both intercoolers: one between the big and small turbocompressor and one before the intake manifold.


Below 1800 rpm the exhaust control valve is closed. The exhaust gasses can only go through the small turboturbine. Since this one has a low inertia it can deliver a high boost very fast. After the small turbine the exhaust gasses flow over the big turbine, but they only have the energy to let is spin. The big turbo doesn’t produce any boost at this stage.
On the intake side the fresh air passes through the big turbocompressor, but like already said he doesn’t deliver boost. This is why the control valve keeps being closed. So the whole inlet flow has to pass through the little turbo.



Between 1800 rpm and 3000 rpm, the big turbo also begins to deliver boost. Both turbo’s work together. The ECU opens the exhaust control valve a little bit (the ECU opens this valve continuously more for higher revs). So a part of the exhaust gasses drive the big turboturbine. The big turbo starts to deliver boost. But the boost still isn’t high enough to open the intake control valve so all the airflow also has to go through the small turbo. This phase is explained in the below scheme.



And finally under full load and above 3000 rpm the ECU opens the exhaust control valve fully. Since the pipe going to the small turboturbine has a high resistance almost no exhaust gasses will follow this path and the small turbo will just spin without delivering boost. On the intake side the big turbocompressor can deliver enough boost to open the intake control valve. The big turbo can blow the air straight through both intercoolers since the air doesn’t need to go through the small turbo. The big turbo can deliver enough flow to ensure loads of power. The below scheme illustrates this phase.




BMW’s 535d

This one is actually gone into production. This 3.0 sixpack diesel produces 272 bhp (@ 4400 rpm) and 560 Nm of torque (@ 2000 rpm). This engine is extremely high revving for a diesel but already gives 500 Nm of torque free at 1500 rpm. These facts give away the main advantage of this engine: it can rev high and have a lot of power (for a diesel) due to the big turbo but it also has loads of torque at low rpm thanks to the little blower.



The main concept of the 535d engine and the way it works is exactly the same as for the OPC diesel. But there are some differences. Firstly the valve controlling the flowratio between the little and big turbo in the inlet is not automatically controlled by the pressure difference like the OPC engine, but is electronically controlled by the engine ECU. Secondly the exhaust pipe between the little turbo and exhaust manifold doesn’t has such a high flow resistance as with the OPC diesel. But it still is higher compared to the exhaust gases going from the exhaust manifold to the big turbo. And finally in contraire to the OPC diesel there’s only one intercooler, positioned after both turbocompressors.

Highres detailed tech pictures will follow later on.
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