Formula 1 Suspension Design

[Silvia_Drift]

Hey guys. I recently got into an argument with someone on the rear suspension design of an F1 car. He insists that the rear uses a solid axle (like a Mustang, eww) and I am saying that it is independant in the rear.

I can't seem to find any information on the suspension geometry and was wondering what you guys thought.

The best website I found was this Toyota one:
http://www.toyota-f1.com/public/en/f1car/tf106.html

It still doesn't state whether the suspension is independant or not. Does anyone have any input on this subject?

[acmarttin]

This one says that the rear is similar to the front without the steering mechanism.

http://www.f1-country.com/f1-engineer/suspension.html

[CMonakar]

The transaxle is a load bearing part of the chassis. If they used a solid axle it would have NO suspenion at all.

[ZfrkS62]

Rear suspension: Carbon fibre double wishbone arrangement, with carbon fibre toelink and pushrod. Pushrod activates rocker, torsion bar, damper and anti-roll bar assy

I don't know of any solid axle suspension that uses double wishbone or toe link for that matter.

If it were a solid axle, they would not be able to adjust the rear toe or camber. Two very critical settings to nail the right set up (not that Toyota can do it anyway). Cornering G's would rip the chassis apart if the rear suspension could not flex independently, especially when bouncing over curbs.

[graywolf624]

they would not be able to adjust the rear toe or camber

Technically they could design the axle to allow for camber and toe adjustment. It wouldnt be easy but Im sure it could occur.

Still I can guarentee they arent... There just isnt any point. The independent axle would create too much unsprung weight for a car of that caliper.

[ZfrkS62]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 they would not be able to adjust the rear toe or camber Technically they could design the axle to allow for camber and toe adjustment. It wouldnt be easy but Im sure it could occur. Still I can guarentee they arent... There just isnt any point. The independent axle would create too much unsprung weight for a car of that caliper.

The only way i could see it happening would be like the old front axles on the Ford Broncos. Big ass ball joint that would allow for independent angle changes. Only problem would be the rate of direction change in those suckers might just self destruct from the lateral loads.

[Silvia_Drift]

Originally Posted by graywolf624 they would not be able to adjust the rear toe or camber Technically they could design the axle to allow for camber and toe adjustment. It wouldnt be easy but Im sure it could occur. Still I can guarentee they arent... There just isnt any point. The independent axle would create too much unsprung weight for a car of that caliper.

Yea, I have actually seen a Volvo that came into the shop with a solid axle that had camber adjustment. It was wierd lol.

So are you saying that the axle on F1 cars is solid? I just don't understand how the solid axle can move up and down when it is connected directly to the tranny. Wouldn't that mean the tranny would have to move up and down with the suspension?

[ZfrkS62]

^ no, he was making a point that it is possible, but impractical to put a solid axle on an F1 car.

They are independent suspensions.

[saadie]

it just cant be a live rear axle .... it has to be independent ...

a F1 car has variable diffrential settings .. . you guess the rest

[graywolf624]

So are you saying that the axle on F1 cars is solid? I just don't understand how the solid axle can move up and down when it is connected directly to the tranny. Wouldn't that mean the tranny would have to move up and down with the suspension?

It was poor wording.. I was making the point a live rear axle is not feasible due to its unsprung weight.

F1 car has variable diffrential settings .. . you guess the rest

Huh? What does having a variable diff have to do with a live rear axle? The torson in the back of my live axle trans am could technically be made to have variable differential settings based on which helical gears it uses. Electrical on the fly would be no more difficult.

[coombsie66]

Originally Posted by ZfrkS62 Originally Posted by graywolf624 they would not be able to adjust the rear toe or camber Technically they could design the axle to allow for camber and toe adjustment. It wouldnt be easy but Im sure it could occur. Still I can guarentee they arent... There just isnt any point. The independent axle would create too much unsprung weight for a car of that caliper. The only way i could see it happening would be like the old front axles on the Ford Broncos. Big ass ball joint that would allow for independent angle changes. Only problem would be the rate of direction change in those suckers might just self destruct from the lateral loads.

Or you just have a selection of premachined hub spacers which all result in differing combinations of camber and toe. (like the aussie V8 supercars 8) )