motor

cavallino · 03-13-2004, 05:30 PM

I have to admit that I am very dissapointed with the Vanquish's engine output. It has a 6L V12 but it can only produce 460hp? The Enzo has a 6L V12 and that can produce 660hp, 200hp more. I love the looks of the Vanquish, it's intimidating, powerful, and menacing, but it's engine doesn't live up to it's looks. If Lambo can get 500hp out of a 5L V10 and Ferrari can get 425hp out of a 3.6L V8, I'm sure Aston Martin can try to get more than 460hp out of a 6L V12. The Vanquish looks like a car that should have at least 520hp.

CMonakar · 03-13-2004, 05:38 PM

A friend of mine has money down on a DB9 and had a dicussion with someone high up at AM about the apparent overlap between the DB9 and Vanquish. According to my friend the person he spoke to said the Vanquish is going to get a signifcant hp increase in the near future. The same person also said that the DB9 motor is under rated to save face for the Vanquish.

1zippo1 · 03-13-2004, 05:45 PM

I disagree with that. An engines quality shouldn't only be measured in hp/litre. Yes sporty engines in general have more hp/litre but they also have to be revved high to get the most of them. Bigger engines like the Vanquish have more torque. The Vanquish is an Aston Martin and it can't be compared to a Ferrari or Lamborghini. Aston Martin are more "gentlemen" sportscars. Not like ferrari's wich are in general lightweight pure sportscars with high revving engines... and the Vanquish is a good example of a nice Aston Martin. Superb styling, it looks fast & elegant and it goes fast. In my oppinion it doesn't need 550hp. It is a bit too expensive for what it is, that's the only really big disadvantage of it IMO. Oh yeah and the lack of a manual gearbox option.

1zippo1 · 03-13-2004, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by ccarlisi

A friend of mine has money down on a DB9 and had a dicussion with someone high up at AM about the apparent overlap between the DB9 and Vanquish. According to my friend the person he spoke to said the Vanquish is going to get a signifcant hp increase in the near future. The same person also said that the DB9 motor is under rated to save face for the Vanquish.

Oh yeah, that's one of the things I forgot. In this case it would be a good thing to increase the hp of the Vanquish indeed. And that would also make up for it's price a bit. But people who have bought a Vanquish Mk1 will be a bit dissapointed because they got less for about the same money.

yg60m · 03-13-2004, 06:02 PM

I agree that the power output of the Vanquish is a little disappointed, it lacks a Vantage version of the Vanquish

With 6 supercharger and 700 bhp

adlinyusman · 03-13-2004, 06:31 PM

urm also because it's supposed to be a grand tourer. It doesn't need out and out bhp/litre. Well unless you count the 575 M. But then again that's a ferrari.

bmagni · 03-13-2004, 10:20 PM

well its a nice gt
really like it but the performance isnt good enough to be a competition lets say for a 575 m

mrzonda · 03-13-2004, 10:24 PM

I've read in evo that the Aston 6.0L V12 is good for more 700hp. It just depends on how extreme you want to go.

Vansquish · 03-13-2004, 10:51 PM

Ok...if you look back far enough, this topic has come up before. I worked at Ford Advanced Powertrain Engineering a couple of years ago when work was still being done on the Vanquish engine. The dynamometer cells where the engines I was working on were located were in the next wing over from the Vanquish testing cells. I used to go see the Vanquish engines a couple of times a day and see what tests were being run and what sorts of outputs were being created, and also to talk to the engineers there. In defense of the engine, the numbers that have been published are in fact underrated. However, before I go on a rant about the actual output numbers, you must realize that this car is NOT intended to compete with the Enzo, the Gallardo, the 360 Modena or any other car in the supercar/sports car genre. It is a grand tourer, and its only true competition at the moment is the 550/575 Maranello, and I suppose that the 612 Scaglietti is close enough as well. In that regard, it IS not quite competitive in sheer (published) output numbers.

The long and short of the dyno story is that I asked one of the engineers what kind of outputs they were achieving on a particularly highly tested engine (it had the equivalent of about 100,000 miles on it by the time I asked). He told me to go look through the sheafs of printouts on the desk. The ones on top were most recent and had roughly 485bhp and 420lb-ft of torque (at the crank) and as I leafed back to the beginning of the testing the numbers rose until it had roughly 510bhp and 435lb-ft of torque.

They realized even at the time that the engine was understressed and could easily put out more power. I was told that a Vantage version was in the works and that it was to be supercharged and have more than 700bhp and be capable of a stable 250mph (no, that is not an exaggerated number, two-hundred-fifty miles-per-hour was what I was told). The cost to engineer that version was deemed too high in the next few weeks that I worked there and as a result, we have been stuck with the standard vehicle.

However....since the DB9 has essentially the same engine as the Vanquish, and may well be lighter, the timing seems right, and the circumstances would seem to support a higher-power version of the Vanquish, if only to distance it from the DB9, which in base form could possibly outperform the Vanquish.

I would expect a tuned Vanquish within the next year or so, the development work has no doubt already begun, and if memory serves me, the only issue that was a true concern during original development was that of heat-dissipation. If turbocharged, that problem will grow, and it may well end up that way for a supercharged version.

At any rate 700bhp is very achievable, as is the theoretical 250mph top speed. (imagine that, a Vanquish as fast/faster than the Veyron)

ae86_16v · 03-13-2004, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by cavallino

I have to admit that I am very dissapointed with the Vanquish's engine output. It has a 6L V12 but it can only produce 460hp? The Enzo has a 6L V12 and that can produce 660hp, 200hp more. I love the looks of the Vanquish, it's intimidating, powerful, and menacing, but it's engine doesn't live up to it's looks. If Lambo can get 500hp out of a 5L V10 and Ferrari can get 425hp out of a 3.6L V8, I'm sure Aston Martin can try to get more than 460hp out of a 6L V12. The Vanquish looks like a car that should have at least 520hp.

Keep in mine that you are comparing apples and oranges.

The Lambo and the Enzo are sports car. . . the ultimate sports cars. But the Vanquish is more of a GT car. It is clad w/ leather, power seats (heated), sound proofing, etc, etc, etc. Where as the other two cars don't have this, or as much.

I would compare the Vanquish to the likes of SL65/55, BMW Z9, etc, etc.

FerrariFerrari · 03-13-2004, 11:36 PM

You also have to take into acount the fact that just
because it doesn't have the hoursepower to mach
the Ferrari doesn't mean that it's a slouch. In fact
if you check the performance figures you will find
out that they are almost identical, if anything the
Aston Martin is quicker. And really what it all comes
down to is tradition, Aston Martins traditionally have
big heavy lower reving engines and Ferraris trad-
itionally have small light high reving engines, both
fit their respective cars perfectly for their intended
purpose. Hopefully I've expressed my point clearly.

ported_head · 03-14-2004, 01:32 AM

i thought the Aston Martins were supposed to be more of a GT then racing machines for the road like Ferraris. i guess they always had unstressed and non-high revving engines. i think they are supposed to put the power down sublimely too, but i could be all wrong. i remember reading some mag in which they tried to do a 0-60 mph run for the vanquish and they fried the clutch in the first time. i dont know if that really says anything.
these are cars that are supposed to behave in gentlemanly conduct, atleast thats what they have been saying in their history.

DMbaseball1604 · 03-14-2004, 03:21 AM

Yes I would say that I have to agree, the Aston doesn't need all the horsepower of a Ferrari or a Porsche or Lambo, if you just look at it, it makes you want to go drive it, and 460bhp is still a lot regardless of what bhp output any Ferrari has, the performance figures of the Aston Martin are not bad either..lets don't forget that..

No.1 · 03-14-2004, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by cavallino

I have to admit that I am very dissapointed with the Vanquish's engine output. It has a 6L V12 but it can only produce 460hp?

What a dumbass point to make :roll:

I am sure that aston martin could have extracted more than 600hp from that engine, but for the sake of durability, comfrot etc. they decided on the output of 460bhp. They may have had issues with teransmitting the power through the transmission or excessive wheelspin.

P.S. >>> the Dodge Viper has an 8l V10 with 500bhp.... go figure

and the C55 AMG merc has only 367bhp, the full 500bhp would have been too much for the chassis

Vansquish · 03-14-2004, 05:11 PM

In fact
if you check the performance figures you will find
out that they are almost identical, if anything the
Aston Martin is quicker.

They are both very rapid cars, but I haven't seen a single test where the Vanquish outclassed the Ferrari 550 or 575. The 575 is significantly faster, and I am quite sure that the Vanquish will have a power bump in order to make it more competitive.

i remember reading some mag in which they tried to do a 0-60 mph run for the vanquish and they fried the clutch in the first time.

It was quite possibly a post on here by me, or a blurb in Autocar magazine. At the first public test outing in Britain, one of the road testers for some other magazine, in an attempt to extract an optimum 0-60mph time, decided to brake-torque the car and in the process shattered the clutch.

As far as the "gentlemanly" aspect of Aston Martin, they've only really gone soft in more recent times. In their early years, there were Astons of the luxurious persuasion, and out and out racecars. The DBR1, the DB3, DB4 and to some extent the DB5 as well were all highly competitive racecars and not slouches in the performance department. Even as late as 1977 there was a fantastically rapid and sporty V8 Vantage. I for one am really looking forward to a return to the high-performance market in the form of the Vantage Vanquish and the AMV8 (whatever name it may hold in the end.)