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lakatu · 08-10-2004, 12:03 PM

Really interesting post st-anger

. Car fans on this side of the pond aren’t exposed to Porsche tuners like Germans are. So it is nice to get that prospective

.

I think that I can provide a little insight into why Ruf is so popular in America. I think more than anything it is a historical thing. Anyone who was a true “believer” in Porsche in the early 1980s wanted to own an air-cooled 911

. The ultimate 911, especially in that era of lower horsepower fuel efficient cars, was the turbo charged versions of the car. Back in the late 1970s the management at Porsche wanted to kill off the 911 and focus on developing newer more modern car designs like the 928 :x . Combined with that desire to move ahead with other models Porsche decided to discontinue the sale of the 911 Turbo (930) in the U.S. They claimed that the reasons were the cars inability to pass increasingly tougher U.S. car regulations, specifically smog. As a result, after 1979 the 911 Turbo was no longer available in the U.S. which was and still is Porsche’s most lucrative market. Alois saw the opportunity and increased his marketing and distribution system in the U.S. (as st-anger mentioned) and brought to the U.S. market a street legal smog certified version of the 930 when no one else did. As far as I know if you wanted a 930 you could either import a “black market” version from Europe and get it certified or buy a Ruf. The “black market” versions were known to have questionable reliability depending on which mechanic shop did the conversion. The choice was made easier because the Ruf came with 365 hp verses 300 hp in Europe from Porsche which fell to 250-60 range after attaching smog regulation equipment. Porsche solved the problem back in 1986 when it decided the 911 wasn’t going to die and their most lucrative market needed their most potent car and began selling the 911 Turbo again in the U.S.

One other factor has increased Ruf’s appeal here. R&T magazine developed a strong relationship with Ruf and use to go to Germany every couple of years in the 1980’s and do a top speed contest. AMG and Ruf were the cars most featured from tuners and Ruf usually won the contests. That was especially true in 1987 when the Ruf CTR “Yellow Bird” (211 mph) beat a impressive list of competitors including Ferrari’s 288 GTO (179 mph) and Porsches 959 (198 mph) by the way Koenig/RS had a car that broke after hitting 201 mph. I think the CTR “Yellow Bird”s performance elevated it to supercar status here in the U.S. and Paul Frere, R&T’s European editor highly endorsed Ruf.

So that is my opinion as to why Ruf is so popular in the U.S. St-anger I found what you said really interesting. Logically, it doesn’t make sense that turners could build a better car than Porsche

. I mean who has more racing knowledge and R&D expenditures on 911 models than Porsche? Andial an “American” tuner of sorts. Actually they have a similar story as RS Tuning they were a mechanical repair shop that became evolved in building racing engines for 911 derivatives and gained recognition for their successful racing program. Porsche then designated them as the official repair shop for the 959. Anways Andial has a pretty interesting take on the horsepower relabilitiy issue that basically says the same things as st-anger did. If you are interested go to the FAQ section at http://www.andial.com

The only thing that makes logical sense when comparing a tuner to Porsche is that Porsche targets their cars to broader based customer and that tuners are able to focus on the wealthy enthusiast that is willing to make some trade offs and pay more to receive some performance benefits. Certainly, Porsche could put together a faster better performing car than the tuners if money and broad based appeal weren’t much of an issue. Back in the 1980s and early 1990s I think that this argument was stronger than it is today because of Porsche’s financial struggles. At the time, I think Porsche didn’t put out the best product that they could have just because they didn’t have the development budgets to do so. Reliability has always been a major issue with Porsche. So if they didn’t have the R&D budget to develop a new product right they felt it was best to stay with the current product that they knew worked well, IMO.

As a fan of 1980s model 911s I appreciate the effort of Ruf to build what Porsche couldn’t at the time :roll: . Personally, I was under the impression that Ruf built a quality product that was the equal as far as quality and build standards to Porsche but it sounds like that was wrong. Ruf makes a great deal of effort in marketing materials to emphasize their relationship with Porsche and they make it sound like they are tighter with Porsche than st-anger indicated. In fact listening to Ruf it sounds like they are a division of Porsche. Heck, they were the ones that offered to buy the rights to the 911 and continue production when Porsche was thinking of discontinuing the 911 model in the 1970s or at least that is how the legend goes. But I have heard st-anger allude several times now to problems with Ruf’s.

I’m curious now st-anger as to what you have heard. Are you able to discuss in greater detail the Ruf’s negatives? I know you might feel constrained because of your close ties and relationships working at PAG. I have heard of problems with their older 3.4L pistons but little else. More specifics if possible would be nice

.

08-10-2004, 12:03 PM	#15
lakatu Regular User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: United States Posts: 408	Really interesting post st-anger . Car fans on this side of the pond aren’t exposed to Porsche tuners like Germans are. So it is nice to get that prospective . I think that I can provide a little insight into why Ruf is so popular in America. I think more than anything it is a historical thing. Anyone who was a true “believer” in Porsche in the early 1980s wanted to own an air-cooled 911 . The ultimate 911, especially in that era of lower horsepower fuel efficient cars, was the turbo charged versions of the car. Back in the late 1970s the management at Porsche wanted to kill off the 911 and focus on developing newer more modern car designs like the 928 :x . Combined with that desire to move ahead with other models Porsche decided to discontinue the sale of the 911 Turbo (930) in the U.S. They claimed that the reasons were the cars inability to pass increasingly tougher U.S. car regulations, specifically smog. As a result, after 1979 the 911 Turbo was no longer available in the U.S. which was and still is Porsche’s most lucrative market. Alois saw the opportunity and increased his marketing and distribution system in the U.S. (as st-anger mentioned) and brought to the U.S. market a street legal smog certified version of the 930 when no one else did. As far as I know if you wanted a 930 you could either import a “black market” version from Europe and get it certified or buy a Ruf. The “black market” versions were known to have questionable reliability depending on which mechanic shop did the conversion. The choice was made easier because the Ruf came with 365 hp verses 300 hp in Europe from Porsche which fell to 250-60 range after attaching smog regulation equipment. Porsche solved the problem back in 1986 when it decided the 911 wasn’t going to die and their most lucrative market needed their most potent car and began selling the 911 Turbo again in the U.S. One other factor has increased Ruf’s appeal here. R&T magazine developed a strong relationship with Ruf and use to go to Germany every couple of years in the 1980’s and do a top speed contest. AMG and Ruf were the cars most featured from tuners and Ruf usually won the contests. That was especially true in 1987 when the Ruf CTR “Yellow Bird” (211 mph) beat a impressive list of competitors including Ferrari’s 288 GTO (179 mph) and Porsches 959 (198 mph) by the way Koenig/RS had a car that broke after hitting 201 mph. I think the CTR “Yellow Bird”s performance elevated it to supercar status here in the U.S. and Paul Frere, R&T’s European editor highly endorsed Ruf. So that is my opinion as to why Ruf is so popular in the U.S. St-anger I found what you said really interesting. Logically, it doesn’t make sense that turners could build a better car than Porsche . I mean who has more racing knowledge and R&D expenditures on 911 models than Porsche? Andial an “American” tuner of sorts. Actually they have a similar story as RS Tuning they were a mechanical repair shop that became evolved in building racing engines for 911 derivatives and gained recognition for their successful racing program. Porsche then designated them as the official repair shop for the 959. Anways Andial has a pretty interesting take on the horsepower relabilitiy issue that basically says the same things as st-anger did. If you are interested go to the FAQ section at http://www.andial.com The only thing that makes logical sense when comparing a tuner to Porsche is that Porsche targets their cars to broader based customer and that tuners are able to focus on the wealthy enthusiast that is willing to make some trade offs and pay more to receive some performance benefits. Certainly, Porsche could put together a faster better performing car than the tuners if money and broad based appeal weren’t much of an issue. Back in the 1980s and early 1990s I think that this argument was stronger than it is today because of Porsche’s financial struggles. At the time, I think Porsche didn’t put out the best product that they could have just because they didn’t have the development budgets to do so. Reliability has always been a major issue with Porsche. So if they didn’t have the R&D budget to develop a new product right they felt it was best to stay with the current product that they knew worked well, IMO. As a fan of 1980s model 911s I appreciate the effort of Ruf to build what Porsche couldn’t at the time :roll: . Personally, I was under the impression that Ruf built a quality product that was the equal as far as quality and build standards to Porsche but it sounds like that was wrong. Ruf makes a great deal of effort in marketing materials to emphasize their relationship with Porsche and they make it sound like they are tighter with Porsche than st-anger indicated. In fact listening to Ruf it sounds like they are a division of Porsche. Heck, they were the ones that offered to buy the rights to the 911 and continue production when Porsche was thinking of discontinuing the 911 model in the 1970s or at least that is how the legend goes. But I have heard st-anger allude several times now to problems with Ruf’s. I’m curious now st-anger as to what you have heard. Are you able to discuss in greater detail the Ruf’s negatives? I know you might feel constrained because of your close ties and relationships working at PAG. I have heard of problems with their older 3.4L pistons but little else. More specifics if possible would be nice . __________________ Porsche, there is no substitute. Well except RS Tuning and Manthey.