Originally Posted by graywolf624
Its not all the unions fault though. Management was dumb enough to agree to it.
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No - unions have unbelievable political clout and managment over the years had little choice but to agree.
Originally Posted by graywolf624
Based on what?
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Based onthe facts that just a
perceived better quality of import cars had buyers flocking to buy the "better" cars.
I think you place far too much fath in statistics skewed to paint a postive picture.
Originally Posted by graywolf624
If that was the case you would think the purchases already would have stopped.. Is there any difference between a company that declared bankruptcy and one everyone knows will?
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Yes - the pre-bankruptcy company is just a foot note in the media.. the post bankcruptcy company will be at the mercy of the anti-American media that did a good job of painting false pictures vizaviz quality etc.
Originally Posted by graywolf624
That ignores the fact that the company itself could be parceled off to other buyers eliminating the bankruptcy concern all together. The reality is, the only real losers in a bankruptcy are the employees. In a bailout there is no winner as the conditions that caused GM to fail cannot be removed without bankruptcy.
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Sure - and with the company goes the patents and technologies etc. So to make the most academic economic sense (which takes no strategic acocunt of the reality of a modern combative world into account) let the companies flounder and fail and let economic darwinism take its course.
I could care less abotu the "ripple effect" in the economy, because many of those satellite comapnies are going to face huge layoffs anyway in 2009 - but again, as stupid as refusing to drill US oil is strategic suicide, so is
not maintaining the integrity of tUS manufacturing.
Originally Posted by graywolf624
First off the US auto plants won't go away. They will be bought and run by others. GMs assets well exceed its market cap afterall, and buying the line to sell the cars doesnt mean you have to take the UAW.
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Assuming the plants are not simply closed and scrapped. Buying the lines to make cars is done in the context of the political environment in which the plant exists.
You are not going to buy an auto plant in Michigan in 2009 and simply reopen it without out the UAW. The UAW won Obama the state - that is some powerful political backing.
Originally Posted by graywolf624
Second off, dpmestics are not the only local auto production. The Honda, Toyota, etc plants are not going anywhere and could serve the same purpose.
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Those profits leave the country and you are forgetting a little detail - non-secret ballot for union elections. There is a reason for this push by the Dems - all those UAW-free fuurin plants are in for a rude awakeing in 2009.
But again, that does not save US manufacturing, just guarantees the fuurin makers will eventually be forced ou of the US market and will head to friendlier shores.
Originally Posted by graywolf624
Local oil production hasnt gone away either, except when the enviros go nuts. Theres little to no evidence of lack of availability of manufacturing capacity. Manufacturing capacity has reduced of course. But it would have even without foreign competition. The productivity growth of our manufacturing is not good. Case closed.
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And your conclusion is simply of economic academic interest. And I am willing to bet the "producitvity" reduction was not organic and rather fueled by unbalanced labour agreements, lopsided trade agreements and foreign punitive tariffs.
I was cleaning ou the garage this wekend, and looking at my many sets of tools. I have 3 sets of Stanley chisels - one set bought in 1996 made in England, 1 set bought in 1999 made in the USA and 1 set bought in 2005 made in China.
I have saws, drills, flashlight, knives, scalpels, vices, batteries, rechargers, power cord, pulleys, hoists, lawn care equipment and power tools.
The reality is everything bought prior to 1997 is all eithe rmade in the UK, USA, Germany or Mexico.
Everything else is made in China. This bares repeating - everything else after 1999 is made in China.
Now, explain to me how in 1997 a 25lb vice was able to be forged in the USA while the new vice I bought last year was forged in China a shipped to the USA?
Explain why all my Bosch and DeWalt powertools pre 1998 were made in Germany and the USA and all the replacement parts are made in China?
I do not believe that the "producitvity" of the east improved so drastically that these goods simply found themselves made in China.
No, the producitivty of the west was falsly depressed to make moving these plants and manufacture from the west to China to simply to boost corporate coffers in the short term.
All of the Chinese sourced items have quality issues, where as the US, German and UK sourced items are still going - some already 10 and 12 years old.
This short term pursuit of corporate office profit (and stock price performance) was very short sighted.
The west using China as its factory has done very little for the average citizen - well it has brought untold wealth to China.
People either want the USA (and the west) to remain a powerful and dominanant player in the 21st century, or they don't.
I guess one has to wonder if the exodus of production from the USA to the east was because of groundwork Clinton put in motion orr because Bush was asleep at the wheel and allowed the exodus to cntinue unchecked?
Strategic suicide is what it was.