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Old 01-07-2008, 01:01 AM   #38
Vansquish
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Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA/ Bloomington, IN, USA
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Originally Posted by m0ng0l01dz View Post
OK lets look at the similarities of swapping a v12 in a bug v. Pagani.
V12 in a bug, the bug is a production car!
The v12 is a production engine
Now the pagani
The pagani is a production car
The amg V12 is a production engine
Now , I cant really see many differences there so I'll try to examine deeper
The Pagani was designed to use an AMG powerplant
The bettle was designed to use a german engine... ummm....
still not seeing the differences.
Maybe we should look at the ariel atom?
Honda K20 motor or GM Ecotec
now I see a difference! If it can use more than one engine, its a kit car!
But my buddy's "bubbagump CTR" uses a k20 now and it previously had a b16, Kit Car? Its all honda with tuner parts. NIRA says its legit cause it all from one manufacturer, but I think they'd have a hard time with a pagani, one they wouldnt have with a saleen since they have a direct affiliation with fomoco, or else then we'd have to say that a ford gt is a kit car since saleen builds the engine?which ford provides.
The obvious issue you are having is one of lust.
You care about the pagani so much that you are refusing to see it for what it is.
As far as people helping you out here, we are gonna need a therapist and a script for cymbalta to allow you to sleep at night after having such a paradigmatic shift in your consciousness.
You're a swell fella tre|\|to|\|.
Now this is a serious logical fallacy. The idea that the cars that Pagani makes have been designed specifically to accept AMG V12 engines is equivalent to the fact that VW designed the Beetle to accept another "German engine" is completely useless as an argument. They're two completely different animals. The beetle was designed to use a teeny flat four nothing at all from a Mercedes of any variety.

As for the Pagani Zonda being a kit car, let's try a list of cars here that use what you might term "crate" engines or engines from another manufacturer...

Ariel Atom
AC Cobra
Saleen S7
Morgan Aero 8
Morgan V6 roadster
Morgan +8
Morgan +4
...all Morgan cars actually...
Marcos Mantis
Marcos Mantaray
Marcos Mantula
...basically all Marcos cars
Holden HSV8
Holden VXR8
Pontiac G8
(Chevy engines in a Pontiac)
Chapparal cars
Ford GT40 - not the GT mind you, the GT40 (Roush-engineered V8s)
Fiat Croma
Lincoln LS
Aston Martin Vanquish - Ford Mondeo/Taurus based DOHC 3.0L V6 multiplied by 2
Aston Martin DB9 - Ford Mondeo/Taurus based DOHC 3.0L V6 multiplied by 2
Aston Martin V8 Vantage - Jaguar-based engine
Lancia Thema 8.32
Alfa Romeo's new V6 159 has a GM engine in it
Ford, Peugeot and Citroen have an ongoing deal to make diesel engines for mass-produced cars...does that make them kits as well?
Bentley Continental GT and Continental Flying Spur have VW W12's
Detomaso has used Ford engines since their inception, does that make the Pantera, Mangusta (old and new), Guara and Vallelunga kits?
Farbio GTS (tuned Mondeo V6 engines)
Ginetta
Koenigsegg uses Ford-based V8 engines
Lotus (except for the Esprit V8, they've basically all been outsourced engines)
Isdera was a supercar manufacturer that used all Mercedes engines (not unlike Pagani)
Invicta used a Ford V8
Jensen's S-V8 used a Ford 4.6L V8 and the company had used various Chrysler powerplants before they went under...again.
Gordon Murray's LCC Rocket had a Motorcycle engine in it
The Lister Storm had a 7.0L Jaguar V12
As others have already pointed out, the Mclaren F1 has a BMW-designed 6.1L V11
MG's have long used communal engines from British Leyland manufacturers and from Ford.
Panoz uses Ford engines
The Protomotors Spirra uses Ford's 4.6
Range Rover and Land Rover have used Ford, Jaguar and BMW engines in recent years
Spectre used Ford 4.6L V8's
Spyker uses Audi engines
TVR has used Rover V8's in the past
Vector has used Chevrolet V8's and Lamborghini V12 running gear in their vehicles.
Venturi used Renault V6 engines
Weismann uses BMW engines...

I can probably think of a few more, but why bother? I don't see why you see outsourcing engines for production vehicles to be criteria for calling them "kits". The whole point behind a "kit" car is that it comes unfinished from the manufacturer and has to be assembled either by the customer or by a third party company before it becomes available for sale. The Noble M12 is a perfect example of this...in the US. In Europe the car comes fully-assembled from Noble. In the US in order to avoid some taxation and various governmental requirements, the car comes from the factory minus engine and transmission, and these must be supplied and installed after the customer has the car. The cars I've listed above all are fully-built vehicles...though the Atom can be had with a choice of engines ranging from Chevrolet Ecotec to Honda.
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