which is better Vtec or non Vtec
 

Hi all I just bought 1995 honda del sol that im thinking of upgrading but i want to know which engine should i get for it and weather to get a vtec engine or a none vtec engine. I heard that the vtec engines are good but the problem is the dely of vtec. and can i control when the vtec works by using a vtec controller

A VTEC car is 100 time better than a non-V-tec car..

You said problems with the delay you mean when the VTEC kicks in..Well you don't really want the VTEC to kick in every time you go to the shopping mall.. But the car do pull normally before vtec kick in..it's not like a turbo charged car when it's really really slow before the turbo spools up and go's.. It's normal power then when you hit about 4,000rpm ( Your engine might be a B16 or B18 VTEC ) it will pull a lot more and the car sound will change noticebly..

A VTEC controller can reduce the V-TEC starting point but not by much..maybe few hundread rpm's..

ps: You have to get a manual gear box for the full vtec experiance :mrgreen:

Try and get the B18 ITR motor to fit in. That would be fun!

The B16 from the Civic VTi / Si (160hp 1.6) will drop straight in. I have owned a previous generation CRX, the Civic CRX SiR 1991, which had the 148hp VTEC motor in it (never sold in the US). I drove both the 130hp and the full power VTEC before I decided on my purchase and I never looked back - the car weighed 1010 kg (2220 lbs) and I saw 145-147 on the dial (mph) which isn't bad for 148hp!

Also, the legend is that no (stock) VTEC motor has ever blown up since 1990 when they started making them. That covers a lot of motors !!

:oops: :oops: :oops: .... My bro distroid his S2000 VTEC engine after about 10,000 km only.. :oops: :oops: It's not the engine fault .. It's my brother vault and the supercharger which is on the motor .. But couple of weeks latter it was rebuild and running on the road's like new..


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That's the reason (supercharger) then, maybe :?:

Non Vtec because most pople think your an arse if you go round with Vtec stickers on :p

/\ good point! :o

Some useful info if you decide to go a VTEC: http://www.apexi-usa.com/electronics...aloverview.asp

BTW, congrats on the car. Take good care of it, please don't make it look like the 20,000,000 other Del Sol's I see around here: Riced out. :)

okay i decided to go with the b16 vtec. no i need to upgrade it. i want to install upgrades that are good for my engine first like headers and an air intake system. then im thinking of forced induction should i go with a super or turbo charger

I don't get it why a lot of people want to supercharge or turbocharge their perfectly good NA engine with its specific characteristics. Certainly with a high revving NA Honda engine. If you super/turbocharge it, the once very reliable engine will lose its reliability drastically.

But of course, it's your car, so I won't bother any further ;)

1-Mugen full exhaust ( Header, high flow cat and catback )
2-Skunk2 Racing Intake Manifold
3-Spoon Sports
4-Either Spoon or Skunk2 camshaft
5-Skunk2 Silver Cam Gears
6-Skunk2 Valve Springs and Retainers
7-A'PEX V-TEC AFC Digital

With that setup.. You got one hell of a N/A ......

I think he won't get the that car in the first place if he have the amount of money for all these upgrades plus the engine change.

He said he already decided on an engine which is the B16A and he want to upgrade it with some stuff .. But then he want's to either supercharge it or turbocharge it.. I recomend keeping it N/A and instead of putting the money on a supercharger or a turbo put it on the stuff listed.. :D .. I know I might have not been very clear in that point.. my bad..

Alright, I cant hold my tounge on this topic any longer. Here is my suggestion. (and I got some honda experience under my belt. I drive a 94' ex coupe with a SIR2 b16, and I've swapped everything from ls-vtecs into del sols to ITR's into crx's, as well as some custom turbo work.)

Ok, where to start.. first of all, here is my 2 cents on the car you baught. First, reasons I think its a good buy. Its a 95' so its still OBD1 making swaps that much eazier, as well as making engine management a little simpler, as well as cheaper. Also I love that its a targe top. My roommate/long time freind has a black 96 VTEC (stock b16 model) and its great. However, as far as looks go, I much prefer the 96, 97 del sol's with the front bumper with no fog lights and such. Also the Del sol, despite its size, its kinda heavy for a honda. Now thats a realitive term in the honda world. Your car should be about 2500 lbs stock wieght. Thats about 150 lbs more than a civic ex of the same year. There is not much you can do to remove the extra wieght of the del sol, which is mainly due to the frame needed more supports because its a targe top.

Ok, your question about Vtec was already anwsered but, just to clear it up sence no one said it, Vtec basically makes a cars low and mid range power alot better than a non-vtec car. Sure the real thrill is the upper RPM's where it lets the race cam do its stuff, but the benifit of having a high and low rpm cam, is that they can make the low cam (actually middle, because there are 3, a third for fuel economy) better suited for mid range power. Where this same cam can work great at 2500-5000 rpm, it would be gasping for air at 8500. So really Vtec gives you the best of both worlds. :mrgreen:

Ok on to engine choices. Because the del sol its heavier than an integra or civic, I would not recommend the B16 if your going to be swapping engines. For less cost, I would say to Ls-Vtec the car. LS-Vtec is basically an b18 non-vtec engine with a Vtec head put on (with some modification) to convert it to Vtec. I like this method for 3 reasons but dislike it for 1. Its good because its cheap (alot cheaper than buying a Vtec engine infact. I paid $2800 for my SIR engine, 170hp, and I built my friend an Ls-Vtec for only $1580 (not including ECU) and with an AEM intake as the only mods to both, he made 162 WHP, where as I only got 156... bastard....). That brings me to #2 which is they make alot of power, and more torque than a b16 (about 15-20 more) because of its increased displacement, which helps with heavier cars. Also they respond to mods better because of the displacement jump over a B16. However, they are not as reliable. Only because alot of people mess up when building them. If done correctly, there is no reason they cant be as reliable as a stock engine. (people tend to try and rev. them past 9000 rpm like a b16 which is stupid, because of its longer stroke and thinner rods. Where as the valve train is the limiting factor for B16's, the Ls-Vtec is piston speed limited above 8800.)

Yikes, long post already and Im just getting started :x Well Il let you guys read this and Il continue my rant later. MUCH more to come.... and just for the record Im not even really a true honda guy, I much prefer Evos and Porsches :mrgreen:

Alright if you think you've absorbed all you can from what I said above, than I'll continue.( I tried to wait longer before continuing, but I knew I would forget what I was saying :oops: )

Ok, as in reguard to this list....

1-Mugen full exhaust ( Header, high flow cat and catback )
2-Skunk2 Racing Intake Manifold
3-Spoon Sports
4-Either Spoon or Skunk2 camshaft
5-Skunk2 Silver Cam Gears
6-Skunk2 Valve Springs and Retainers
7-A'PEX V-TEC AFC Digital

It is a very very good list of high quality parts, but there is a few problems. First full mugen exaust is very very very expensive, as well as nearing impossible to get for a del sol inside the US. For those 3 parts you'r talking $1500 and Im sorry, but no matter how awsome it sounds, which it does (nice and quiet), or how cool it looks, which is certainly does, that is to much for parts that dont make any more power than most others costing 1/3 as much. The Skunk2 racing manifold was a good unit a few years ago, but today there are better, cheaper manifolds such as the edelbrock PerformerX manifold. A comparo I read on these 2 had the PerformerX Making 3 more torque and 8 more Hp on a modded GSR.(na) And considering its a bit cheaper, I say to go with that.
Gunna have to elaborate on #3... spoon sports, I think you left something off there :mrgreen:
As for cams, Id recommend TODA, just because they have worked so well for me in the past. The all motor drag CRX my friends and me built as a project car in high school ran a B20 block with a B16 head. We started with Type-R cams but when we went with quad throttle bodies, they didnt have the flow we needed. We called alot of manufacturers and after hearing most peoples sales pitches, I was most impressed with what TODA had to offer. They make cams for any application, street or drag. However, for street setups, Id say Spoon or Skunk2 would be equally as good, if not marginally better, but they will be a little more expensive.
The cam gears dont really matter what brand you use, as long as they arnt a cheap set that will brake. Any name brand is good, like HKS, Greddy, Skunk2, AEM, Etc... they all make quality parts. Valve Springs and retainers is a good one though. Much at my own expense I have played with different Spring combos. Basically what I learned is that below 9000 RPM the stock Intake Springs work good with an aftermarket cam, but unlike the stock intake springs, the stock exaust pieces are single spring units.(the intake uses dual valve springs, which is a spring inside a spring, for more force) If you turn up your rev. limit or get after market cams, you will need to do one of two things. You will need to either get a full new set of Exaust springs for Intake and Exaust cams, or if your not going above 9 grand, just get a set of stock intake valve springs and put them on the exaust side, they work fine. As for retainers, the Civic Type R units are a little cheaper than after market units, and work just as good, but they are hard to find, so I cant really recommend them above after market ones. Again the stock retainers are fine with a stock cam below 9k. Above that you risk damage and will need to upgrade.
As for the last piece, the super V-AFC, there is no arguing this is best unit this side of full aftermarket ECU's. In my experience, unless your really going for power or 13.0 comp. with 12,000 rpm, the stock ECU works great, with some AFC help. I say this unit is damn near a must!

::deep breathe:: alright.... As for things he did not mention on an all motor set up, this is what I would suggest.
1) AEM cold air intake. I dont know what they do, or how they do it, but time and time again, the AEM units make more power, more torque and sound better than any other intake, bar none. I've custom made 4.5" alluminum intake pipes, with AEM filters on the end, and they still make a few Hp less at the wheels. Im an AEM fan for life... they just Rock!
2) Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator. B&M, Vortech, AEM. All good units. When changing cams, and I/H/E, always a little more power to be made with this item.
3) Bosch 255 Fuel Pump. Cheap, Reliable, more fuel than you'll ever need, and a big step up from stock. If you plan on doing anything past 165-170 WHP with a B16 or Ls-Vtec, this unit is a must. (B16b's and B18c's can go a little higher, around 180-200, before they start requiring this part)
4) Exaust. (was mentioned but heres my 2 cents) My suggested Company for this is Greddy. Greddy's SP2 system is cheap and very quiet... almost stock. Doesnt sound like rice, and makes good power. For headers, the Stock units are so well designed for B series Vtec motors, A port job will make just a few Hp shy of aftermarket units. Considering Headers are $300-$500, unless you have to have that underhood shine, deal with the rust and port out the insides. For cats, Catco makes cheap universal cats that just need some flanges welded on. A weld shop will chop your stock cat flanges and install your new cat in an hour or so and charge less than $100. However, all together this part will cost you around $300-$350, and will only make 1-4 hp. As long as you dont tell anyone, putting a $40 straight pipe in is good for more power :lol:
5) Gauges. For all motor cars, with an V-AFC (which covers as an A/F ratio gauge) really the only after market guage I would recommend is Oil Pressure Gauge. Even more so for Ls-Vtec engines, where oil passages can be blocked if improperly built.
6) Short Throw Shifter. Ok not an engine piece, but I put on in my car, and it is seriously the best thing I have ever done to a car. The Stock honda tranny already shifts like butter, but the throws are a bit far and are too effortless. An aftermarket unit will tighten up the shifts, giving them shorter, more precice feel. I just love shifting my car now, It feels almost as good as an S2000, which is a huge compliment.


Arg.... ranting again, Il get into forced induction and wieght reduction and head porting and nitrous and all that stuff later. Right now I need a Hot Pocket brake :mrgreen: