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-   -   R&T: Nissan GTR - New World Order! (http://www.motorworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=55243)

toffytofik 03-19-2008 06:53 AM

R&T: Nissan GTR - New World Order!
 
Road & Track: Comparison Test: Nissan GT-R vs. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 vs. Porsche 911 Turbo


Comparison test:
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/3...ntrack1vf0.jpg
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7...ntrack2kv3.jpg

High-res PDF: http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...ct_OnTrack.pdf


Styling Analysis:
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4...nalysisvp7.jpg

High-res PDF: http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...ngAnalysis.pdf


Technical Analysis:
Quote:

As noted in this issue's On the Road column, we lost a member of R&T family with Paul's death on February 23 of this year. He composed this technical feature in the hospital shortly before his death.
It is always sad when someone dies like that. :(
Rest in Peace.

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/5...detailspu3.jpg

High-res PDF: http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...echDetails.pdf


Comparison Chart:
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/6...11chartze0.jpg

High-res PDF: http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...6911_chart.pdf

styla21 03-19-2008 07:18 AM

"Credit goes to it's sticky tyres".
I love how subtly this comment is inserted in the article........ :-)

I just don't believe the GT-R is this quick! I just don't.. Flame away.

toffytofik 03-19-2008 07:32 AM

^
You know what's funny? I somewhat don't believe it too actually. I think that's what makes me so addicted to it. :-)


* Updated the first post with all of the PDF's (converted to JPG) provided by R&T with the article. *

toffytofik 03-19-2008 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by styla21 (Post 822531)
"Credit goes to it's sticky tyres".
I love how subtly this comment is inserted in the article........ :-)

I just don't believe the GT-R is this quick! I just don't.. Flame away.

Of course it's Potenzas are softer compounds and more sticky but comparison chart states that GTR pulls 1.01g on the skidpad while both Z06 and 911 Turbo pull 0.99g. Not that much of the overall cornering grip advatnage really... There's certainly more than just a plain sticky tire advantage our "jesus mobile" has. :-D

torrentjunkie 03-19-2008 08:06 AM

i want one:-(

yg60m 03-19-2008 08:14 AM

Impressive performance which confirms the european's results (EVO, CAR ). This GT-R is a winner without doubts ... even if the sticky tires are an advantage ;-)

RC45 03-19-2008 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yg60m (Post 822536)
Impressive performance which confirms the european's results (EVO, CAR ). This GT-R is a winner without doubts ... even if the sticky tires are an advantage ;-)

The point is that without the tyres it will suck ;)

A GT3 RS without Sportcups is still one of the most competant cars on the planet... without race spec tyres the GTR is just another 4,000lb sedan...

BTW. didn't Nissan try this once before - with the long forgotten Mid4?

HeilSvenska 03-19-2008 12:29 PM

Oooh. Gordon Murray. He still looks like he's stuck in the 80's. Or is that a stock photo? ;-)
They should've asked him about the packaging of the car, rather than sheet metal design. Opportunity missed.

toffytofik 03-19-2008 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC45 (Post 822537)
The point is that without the tyres it will suck ;)

Indeed, it won't go far on the rims alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC45 (Post 822537)
A GT3 RS without Sportcups is still one of the most competant cars on the planet...

Which planet Mars or maybe Venera? And why GT3 RS? Why not the GT3 RSR? Or better GT1? It's even more competent, especially at Jupiter!!! Why are talking about race cars out of a sudden?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC45 (Post 822537)
without race spec tyres the GTR is just another 4,000lb sedan...

Yeah, there're lots of these 4,000lb sedans made once in a while that instantly beat Porsches as soon as you change to 140 treadwear.

Sorry for making a joky replies. It's just somehow i guess it's rather pointless to sensibly argue with you on the GTR. :mrgreen:










:w00t: GTR HATERS UNITE!!! :w00t:






GT-R Hater's Club Official Haircut:




RC45 03-19-2008 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toffytofik (Post 822554)
Indeed, it won't go far on the rims alone.

Oh - not to forget, when you need to adjust the pressure in your tyres youhave to go to a certified GT-R dealer to get the nitrogen topped up... o lose your warranty :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by toffytofik (Post 822554)
Which planet Mars or maybe Venera? And why GT3 RS? Why not the GT3 RSR? Or better GT1? It's even more competent, especially at Jupiter!!! Why are talking about race cars out of a sudden?

The GT3 RS was only mentioned because it's just about the only other car being sold with race car like tyres... the RS as them for track day junkies to enjoy, while the GT-R has those tyres just so it can stay safe on public roads... considering it weighs as much as a large double decker bus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toffytofik (Post 822554)
Yeah, there're lots of these 4,000lb sedans made once in a while that instantly beat Porsches as soon as you change to 140 treadwear.

You better enjoy it while youcan, because the moment the tyres go off, the car wll be slower than a Boxster....

Quote:

Originally Posted by toffytofik (Post 822554)
Sorry for making a joky replies. It's just somehow i guess it's rather pointless to sensibly argue with you on the GTR. :mrgreen:

Sensibly argue?

What argument?

Argument would imply you guys have a chance at winning (as opposed to whining) ;)

From day 1 we simply stated: In order for the GT-R to deliver the supposed performance numbers it is being waaaaaaay underrated on power and/or has very sticky tyres - far stickier than any of the competing cars get STOCK.

You side of the table said that neither of these things are true... and now it turns out that BOTH are the case ;)

Lets see these same tests repeated when the Porsche and Corvette have got the tyres installed that the owners put on.... because then the GT-R's advantage is gone.. and day after day, lap after lap, street mile after street mile, the lighter car is always more desirable over the "technological" car ;)

And it is in the real world of actual owner experience that this car needs to live and survive, not the world of Internet Geeks and Magazine Bench racers :P ;)

GT-R Lovers Club Haircut?

http://www.all4humor.com/images/file...;20Haircut.jpg

I mean, the levels you guys go to pile on the bullsh..... ;)

nthfinity 03-19-2008 01:22 PM

This is the same deal with the new Shelby GT500 KR.... VERY aggressive tires make it outcorner even a Ford GT... even with 3900 lbs... try lasting more then 5 hot laps on a challenging circuit...

79TA 03-19-2008 03:40 PM

estimated as tested price FTW! :laugh:

toffytofik 03-19-2008 04:27 PM

Guys, you know what? I'm not the new Nissan GTR nut to be honest! :P

If i had this kind of money, i'd jump in the six year old NSX-R without a single thought with the big smile on my face and forgot what the GTR is. You see i love lightweight cars, i prefer RWD over AWD, i prefer full manual gearbox over DSG (even if it's slower), i love high-revving NA engines... in other words i love and respect pure sportscars. And i see all previous gen GTRs as such, but unfortunately not the new one. In fact the only GTR i'd be happy to own is the R32 Skyline GTR (R33 and R34 are really good too, but they're hardly any different from the R32, a tad faster but also heavier, anyway i'd easily pick them over the new GTR anyday as they're still more "pure" and much more appealing to me).

So why do i like the new GTR then? Well, the car that has been engineered up to the smallest bits during 5 consequent years, with such impressive technology and attention to details applied, that happened to be so good that in fact made myself doubting it's performance, deserves some respect in my book. Yeah and most of all i like the way this GTR phenomenon pisses some people of. Thre're so many haters and doubters who can't believe it is really that good and generally hate it more than any other car on the planet. :laugh:

(I'd like to drive it, but i wouldn't buy it :P)
(Dunno 'bout V-Spec though... :mrgreen:)

RC45 03-19-2008 04:35 PM

:)

I would like to drive one, if it will go faster than 112mph...


:)

Minacious 03-19-2008 04:47 PM

I'll wait until they start shipping actual production models over the pond before I have any real opinions on the thing.

nthfinity 03-19-2008 04:48 PM

Some interesting numbers....
most notable aren't the 0-60 times... interesting that EACH car ran 3.4 seconds to 60 mph :)

The GTR is so advanced that it does brilliant things in corners, and in "off the line" accelleration... but it show's it's mass after that.... A LOT... surprising how much so.

the GTR loses it's accelleration advantage at 60 mph to the competitors... meaning, the other two cars will smoke the GTR on the street where people run from a roll... and rarely do standing starts.

by the end of the 1/4 mile, the GTR is already more then 7 mph slower in the same amount of time then the corvette, and 5 mph slower then the 911 Turbo...

It's 60-0 distance is impressive... but again, it looses it's advantage quickly because of all the additional mass .... show in the 80-0 time.

The lap advantage the GTR takes shows what happens when you have a higher-speed turn and warm soft tread tires can do over runflat tires on the Vette, and PS2's ? on the 911 Turbo.... but beyond the two turns, the GTR doesn't have much advantage, surprisingly so.

toffytofik 03-19-2008 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC45 (Post 822607)
:)

I would like to drive one, if it will go faster than 112mph...


:)

180kmh limiter is standart for all JDM spec cars. US spec GTRs will go without any kind of limiter.
Oh yeah, RC, i want you to know i don't count you as hater. I think deep inside you really like it and restrain that feeling! :P

toffytofik 03-19-2008 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeilSvenska (Post 822550)
Oooh. Gordon Murray. He still looks like he's stuck in the 80's. Or is that a stock photo? ;-)
They should've asked him about the packaging of the car, rather than sheet metal design. Opportunity missed.

Soooo true. That would be very much appreciated.


Oh, and i just noticed the little note in the bottom of one of the pages stating that Paul Frere who did the technical analisis for R&T has died.
Quote:

As noted in this issue's On the Road column, we lost a member of R&T family with Paul's death on February 23 of this year. He composed this technical feature in the hospital shortly before his death.
It is always sad when someone dies like that. :(
Rest in Peace.

toffytofik 03-19-2008 06:32 PM

Just found out the GTR was fitted with it's optional DUNLOP SP SPORT 600 DSST tires for this test.

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/a...0&d=1205936521

They look like a normal max performance summer tires. Not a racing spec R-compounds obviously. :-)

nthfinity 03-19-2008 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toffytofik (Post 822633)
Just found out the GTR was fitted with it's optional DUNLOP SP SPORT 600 DSST tires for this test.

They look like a normal max performance summer tires. Not a racing spec R-compounds obviously. :-)


They aren't "R" compound tires... Such is the progression of tire technology.... I'm sure they are rated for 10,000 miles or something.... but try putting 5 hot laps on those same tires ;)

but VERY close... this is why cars like the GTR, and Shelby KR that is coming out perform so well on the twisties, acceleration, and braking tests ;)

nthfinity 03-19-2008 07:47 PM

NEW SCANDAL REGARDING MILLEN'S Skyline GTR lap time!!!

1.) Millen is a Nissan test driver.... official.... where are Walter Rohl and John Henriechy / Jan Magnusen????

2.) The GTR pounded out a lap time of a R compound slick Viper Competition Coupe while racing and winning?

Code:

      Place    Car No.    Car    Drivers    Lap1    Lap2    Lap3    Total        Points           
      1    27    2003 Dodge Viper      Competition    Mumford, Provost    1:55.960    1:56.002    1:56.124    5:48.086    40           
      2    98    2002 Radical SR3    Johnson, Dalen,      Morris    1:56.137    1:56.451    1:56.477    5:49.065    35           
      3    93    2002 Radical SR3    Dalen, Johnson,      Morris    1:58.395    1:58.461    1:58.889    5:55.745    30           
      4    55    1992 Acura NSX    Hayashi,      Messley, Mello    1:59.104    1:59.678    1:59.897    5:58.679    25           
      5    76    2002 Radical SR3    Morris, Dalen,      Johnson    2:00.137    2:00.518    2:00.623    6:01.278    20           
      6    500    2001 Chevrolet      Corvette Z06    Cardenas, Ames    2:05.893    2:07.505    2:07.584    6:20.982    15           
      7    206    2002 Chevrolet      Corvette Z06    Chavis, Blevins    2:08.863    2:08.940    2:08.940    6:26.743    10           
      8    4    1987 Pontiac      Fiero    Ondrack, Salter    2:09.195    2:09.562    2:09.574    6:28.331    5


PaulGT2164 03-19-2008 09:59 PM

wow thats a old lap time chart.

RIP Paul Mumford.
cool guy he was.

nthfinity 03-19-2008 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulGT2164 (Post 822670)
wow thats a old lap time chart.

RIP Paul Mumford.
cool guy he was.

Points leader his rookie season.... RIP

nthfinity 03-20-2008 10:00 AM

http://forums.roadandtrack.com/cars/...&thread.id=138

Seems the whole of the world is up in arms over the 5 seconds-per-lap advantage the GTR had...

Seems that the C6Z06 is 5 seconds faster a lap then a 911 Turbo on a longer track that Car and Driver did a 'lightning lap' test with....

there is a lot of Tom Foolry being pointed out across the internets :P


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