evo #68 - Porsche Carrera GT vs McLaren F1 (again)
 

I know it was already posted, but if I post it anyway it because:

- the original link seems to be dead
- I scanned anyway the whole mag, the pics would be anyway in the gallery and they won't disappear from there
- it's a fucking gorgeous review :P

http://www.jabbasworld.net/photopost...cgtvsf1_01.jpg

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hum..
i am surprise the writter feel mcclaren feels easier to drive on the track
i thought it would the opposite

also he feel it is faster... yeah f1 is faster in a straight line, but no way can it beat it in any type of track..

CGT is a freaking track monster

Yeah I would have to agree, The article is a bit biased...but still a great article...thanks TT!

The F1 might beat is, even on a track. One car that would beat them both on the track is the F40. Nice article indeed!

But where is the first post of it ? :lol: :wink:

The F40 is quick, but are you kidding. The Carrera GT is probably a match for the Enzo on the track. The dynamics are probably there and the straightline pace after recent tests isn't quite there, but still the closest supercar out there.

I do think the F40 can beat a Mclaren around a track though. I think Atkinson is just too amateur in his skill to see the difference. Cars that appear harder and even slower to amateurs are often significantly different in skilled hands.

For example, Clarkson believes the SLR is very close to the CGT in terms of overall performance. In his hands there wasn't much difference. In the Stigg's hands on a fairly simple track the difference was more obvious. In the sport auto super test which is usually a little biased towards German cars, not because of the driver, but because of the amount of testing German cars get there. There was a huge difference the CGT was about 14 seconds faster while driving in the wet.

In the dry it is probably closer to 25 seconds.

Enzo will win over all plain and simple

I love the effort the writer - Rowan Atkinson (Mr. Bean) - takes to describe the sound of the F1 engine - Ispent the last five minutes trying to mimic the sounds here. My neighbours must be thinking I am loony :lol: :lol:

Great article. Thanks, TT!

Don't you also have that Best Motoring battle where they put the McLaren F1, Ferrari F50 and Ferrari F40 against each other? The F40 beats them both by about a second.

U mean in the lap time attack test. I think these were done over different periods in time thus preventing any fair comparison due to temperature variations. Meaning that in hot conditions a car will have a slower lap time. To do a fair comparison the comparison should be applied on the same day and BM didnt test the F40 F50 and F1 on the same day. The F1 was tested in 96 only.

My opinion is that the F1 would easily beat the F40 and F50. Between the F40 and F50 well I dont really know but I favour the F50.

its a fact that the F50 is faster then both on a track, like out of all Companys do u think Ferrari will make a super car slower ten its predecessor? use some common sense i think it was a couple seconds faster on there test track cant remmember

I can't remember, but in that BM video didn't the F1 beat the F50? And the F40 stomped both of em?

ya but big deal, its like sayin ur cars slower cause the stig said so on that show 5th gear or top gear, do u think the stig gets 50 laps in each car so he can really show the performance? i doubt it

Nothing without modification can catch Mclaren F1 in straightline that's for sure, but around a track with twist and corners, ENZO/Carrera GT/Saleen S7 will be the king -- because of their excellent mechanical grip/aero downforce. :D Plus new car always comes with better brake/tyre compound, isn't it the key of banzai hot lap time? :lol:

But theory stopped here : Editors of EVO aren't Tiff Needle/Jason Plato class driver, and like most of us they can't even drive an Carrera GT without TC on the limit, so theory doesn't always work here. :wink:

Can't get enough of the Carrera GT. Thanks.

well Ferrari could of made the Enzo to go i think it was either over 240 mph or 250 mph, but andF1 car never goes that fast ever so they said it wouldnt make sense and mainly because they were concentrating on other aspects of the car and didnt car about top speed as you could never hit that when u are racing anyways ( which is what these cars are meant for), so there is no point, the enzo does the quarter mile faster then the f1 and with a higher speed trap at the end of the quarter mile, and one more theing, all u people think the F1 goes 240 mph, it doesnt, it goes 231, the one that hit 240 wasnt the same one that u could buy i think it was some testing version before the Mac actually came into production or something like that, look it up.

The CGT will destroy the F40 or the F50 on a real circuit, totally destroy. Think about htis: the CGT has almost 150 hp more, ALOT more downforce, and much more sophisticated technology. the comparison in htis test is the same as me saying a go-kart is faster than a F1 car: at least in the go-kart i'd set a time at a circuit, in the F1 i'd spin if i tried to do anything fast.

In the hands of real talented drivers the CGT will be much much faster than the F1, the only place the F1 can beat the CGT will be in a straight line.

HEhe, Yep, looks like it is Rowan Atkinson behind the steering wheel of the Mclaren or at least this a a lookalike guy :) But it is known that he owns one, still not sure this is Mr. Bean :) I wonder that he takes the Mclaren's steering wheel with him just like he does with the wheel of his mini in one of his shows :lol:

CHeers

If you will pay attention to the scans you will see at the beginning "words by Rowan Atkinson" indeed. He is a part time contributor, did a couple of features so far.

Ok, Thanks. You are right his name is shown on top of the article, didn't see or know that. I have a few EVO magazines myself but none of those contain an article by Mr. Atkinson.

Cool scan

CHeers

I'd say the CGT beats most of them around a track, but we are forgetting the F1 is 10 years old and the F40 15 and they are still at the relatively same pace as all current supercar incarnations

Yes but lets not forget how expensive the F1 is. And also, if the F40 was made today, I doubt very much if it would pass all the necessary requirements (crash safety, etc) to be road legal. Automotive designers have to face a much stricter set of challenges now with all that stuff- you cant really compare the two.

bigger then the one I had. I read that on my way over to the US in the airplane thanx TT

Thanks TT, that is a great article. Very well written, and not as biased as you would think.

Didn't Rowan Atkinson prang his F1 just after he got it? I seem to remember that for some reason. Wonder how much the repair bill was? :) Probably as much as a Carrera GT!

I heard that it costs as much as a new Ferrari. But not sure if this a fact... :)

This vs is cool, but which is more fast : Enzo or Mclaren F1 in a circuit.

they should compare the ENZO to the mclaren or maybe the zonda!! But i think the mclaren will be the best car in the world still for some years... But ENZO is sexier IMO!! :wink:

The great Dario[Ferrari test driver extrodinaire] tested the Enzo vs the Mclaren and said the Enzo just cant quite beat the Mclaren...Do a search and you will find it on the web...Anyone that thinks an F50 or F40 can beat the Mclaren is not thinking fully.....Neither one of those cars can approach the accelerative brute force of the Mclaren nor the handling...As great as the F50 and F40 is they are no comparison to the F1....Mclaren did 138mph in the 1/4...That obliterates even the mighty Enzo...How will the F50-F40 keep up?

I saw that BM video...You cant take what you see there as a end all and be all....You have different driver skills involved....They have to avoid each other etc...Its not a true test of what a car can do....In one they had an M3 CSL keeping up with a Porsche GT2[460hp] on the straights...Another they had an NSX[290hp] running with a Murcielago[585hp]...On a crowded track everyones bunched up giving the illusion of a closely matched cars...A true test would be same day, same driver attacking a roadcourse in one car after the other. No one blocking you from taking the best lines around the track..Top Gear has the right idea witht he STIG...

BTW the F1 LM streetcar will annihilate any of the hyperexotics...It is the GOAT....Greatest Of All Time....


EDIT: heres the link talking about Dario vs the Mclaren.....The track was slightly downhill and the Enzo still couldnt beat the Mclaren's numbers....This page used to contain more dont know what happened...

http://www.ferrariownersclub.co.uk/h...april/enzo.asp

everyone know that mclaren f1 acc faster then enzo

but f1 is not a great handling car... i am not suprise if it out handles by f40 or f50 in the handling department.. but seems like u dont think so

most of the article i have read about f1,, they said it had body role.. and handling was one of it weaker point


enzo vs regular f1 on the track.. enzo would win for sure

I said it would out handle an F50 and F40...I may not beat the Enzo but I dont think it would be killed by the Enzo...To say the Mclaren F1 was not a great handling car is absurd....The one we got in the states was not the "real" Mclaren F1....It had less power was heavier etc...Unfortunately, thats the one they did mosts of the tests on....The Ameritech legal version only trapped the 1/4 in 11.9 @ 125mph and pulled .87g.....The Euro F1 was the real deal....That one will beat any car out there now....Not to mention the F1 LM in my signature which would obliterate them all...In fact the only "production" streetcar in memory that could give the LM a run or maybe beat it is the Dauer Porsche....Those were incredible cars..

The Dauer 962 completes 0-124mph in 7.7 secs and has active ground effects downforce. It could also hit 251mph. I think that would severely lay waste to the "GOAT"

The Dauer was a race that happened to fit street legal specifications. Even though it does fit road legal standards in some places even the major mags that actually tested don't really discuss it.

On top of that the Mclaren doesn't outhandle the F50 and probably not the F40. There was actually an article done by French Sport Auto where they tested the F50, F40 and Mclaren at Suzuka.

The Enzo most certainly beats it around a track. The Mclaren is an easier car to drive, but the Enzo is nearly as quick in a track situation, handles better and brakes insanely better.

Mclaren F1 Enzo
0-60 3.2 3.3
0-100 6.3 6.6
0-125 9.4 9.4
0-150 12.8 13.1
1/4 11.0 11.0

Jeremy Clarkson way back when talked about the F50 handling better than the Mclaren, but it was too scary. In a comparison in the top gear mag Tiff Needel(ex F1 driver) said that the Mclaren F1 was probably more fun because of the body roll, but he would post a faster time on a track with the F50.

The Enzo is almost 5 seconds quicker at Fiorano over the F50 and that is all on very short course that doesn't reward the Enzo's huge power advantage over the Mclaren.

In the big supercar video Martin Brundle(also an ex F1 driver) picked the Mclaren F1 over the Enzo for several reasons including finish, but said the Enzo was definitely the track star of the bunch of cars being tested.

Here is a little hint as to why the Enzo is quicker.

The Mclaren F1 (LM) does the 0-100-0 in 11.5 seconds. That is pretty impressive ahead of cars like the Pagani Zonda which did it in 11.7

However, the Enzo did that same test in 10.8 seconds which is a huge huge advantage. The Enzo also didn't post quite as good acceleration times in that test as it is capable of. That was against the track oriented LM. The Enzo will crush a standard F1 on a track.

HoboPie you beat me to it regarding the Dauer Porsche...Racecar turned streetcar[962] vs Streetcar turned racecar[F1].......

On the Mclaren F1 vs Enzo note I agree the Enzo will beat a standard F1 on a cuircuit track set up with many turns..Enzo has tire, brake, and horsepower advantage over the F1. If you run them as is, the Enzo will win....Buuuut, add current tires, brakes to the LM and its bye bye Enzo..The LM would obliterate the Enzo in a straight line...The LM made 680hp and weights around 600lbs less and I vaguely remember it doing 0-124 in just over 8secs.....Enzo cant touch that...You guys forget that the LM made so much downforce that it would stick to the roof at 120mph...With that kinda stick and current tires nothing out now would beat it....

The reason I dubbed the LM the GOAT is because its the greatest streetcar ever made imho...The Dauer Porsche was a racer turned streeter so while it would obliterate an F1 its not really in the same catagory....

I can't seem to find a scan of the Autocar article on the WWW. If anyone has the scan or can point me to a link it would be most appreciated.(Autocar 24.04.03)

Think about this: The CGT weighs ~3000 lbs. while the F40 weighs ~2400 lbs. and they both have similar torque. Don't underestimate the F40...or the F50 for that matter. Tiff said that in his hands an F50 wold be faster on a track than a Macca F1.