Delphi sells its suspension arm to the Chinese
 

Just to let you know how important Delphi is, it makes magneto-rheological suspension for the likes of Audi, Ferrari, and GM. It's equipped on cars like the R8 and the 599GTB.

And sadly Chinese bearings made to Timken specs have been failing at an alarming rate.

The world needs to be prepared for a severe reduction in new car quality over the next decade if the companies that are selling their production arms relocate manufacturing to China.

Chinese quality control seems to be the worst in the world.

If the quality of their electrical goods are anytthing to go by, then we're all in deep sh*t....

Chinese producers are better than most. Good technology, skilled workers etc. However, a common criticism is that their management structures aren't all too great. It's very top-down and hierarchical, so often, directives are not what's appropriate to on-the-ground operations. You want things to work in China, you need to bring in some of your own people.

they(Chinese) can make quality products but most companies (from outside of china) are tempted to cut the production costs to minimum and in China they can make stuff really really cheap and therefor quality goes down.

but what worries me is that Chinese had been making money this way and now they are going in "shopping" and since the economy sucks they are able to get some cool deals.

Wrong.

Corruption and thft and bribary is rife.

Products that are engineered to specific standards seldom meet these standards after the initial quality control is tested and reviewed.

Alloys and materials are substituted and changed.

Wheels, tyres, chassis components, brearing, glass products and other structural and safety related items are severly substandard.

Please stop trying to make out China is God's gift to the world - it is not.

It is a dishonest, corrupt, polluted, cruel dictatorship, itnerested in nothing more than global expansion and control of its populaiton.

Any concessions you may see are temporary at best and designed to get money into China and appease some internation group of observers.

The sheer number of faulty wheels, bearing, structural components and other items that are present in vehicle at this time is staggering and frightening.

These are the facts.

This dirty little secret is quite well hidden from the public and their supporters around the world - the motive? profit.

Bingo - this is the strategic blunder the western world has walked right into - eyes wide shut.

This is going to be the gretaest espionage coupe and an even gretaer transfer of wealth, capital and control than compared to when "Japanwas buying up the west".

The difference was that it was private Japanese investment, and was reverersed when Japan went into recession.

These purchases are many and mostly funded with Chinese state backed funds.

How stupdi of the west to have pretty much capitulated and mortgaged themselves to their only one common enemy.

The central Chinese government has never denounced their original expansionist plans from the last 100 years... they are patient and will out pace the west.

Would be true if they had existed for more than 60.

The system of governance China will never change. It will forever be run by the all-powerful oligarchic Politburo. Democracy will fail because it will cause enough instability to fracture China. It's just not going to happen. A completely free market will disperse power too far away from the centre, creating similar dangers. Again, it's just not going to happen. Sucks, but really only for them.

I am well aware that corruption is rife. It is pretty obvious given the extreme reaction of executing all the ones they do find. That's part of the problem. Things will change eventually with the realisation that doing dodgy things like putting melamine in milk powder doesn't help you rip off other countries. It wasn't too long ago when many first world police forces were filled with corrupt officers. The development of effective management strategies and an internal ethical culture will happen due to its necessity. Only with that development can China really move beyond where it is now.

As crap as they are, it's not like things from China completely fall apart. It works well enough for their own needs. There isn't going to be mass carnage on Western roads because an inferior Chinese factory makes the brake and suspension systems. Not as good as before, yes, but not a disaster.

I think this is all peripheral to the main issue here, which is Delphi. They're bankrupt, at least in a theoretical sense. They need to start flogging parts of the business because it's the law. Creditors need to be paid. If it so happens that Beijing West Industries has offered the most money, it would violate the principle of seeking the best price to say no to the sale. It's all really simple. This is not a time for mulling over fears of China taking over the world, China building nuclear weapons, China sabotaging exports etc. Those sorts of issues are for politicians, not businessmen, to handle.

The Chinese have been around a lot longer than 60 years.

I will leave that up to you to read up on.

The regime may have changed but the management style is still the same and has been for 2000+ years.

Wrong.

How abotu 90% failure rate among wheel bearing when use outside of smartcar style performance envelopes, with bearings designed for severe duty.

There is a company in Florida with 150,000 junk wheel bearings. These and other products are getting found out before deployment to the manufacturing community due to testing.

? What?

No they don't. They are just lucky Delphi is in recievership - they could just as easily have been closed up and liquidated for 1 penny and no-one would have got anything.

Creditors face the same risk of zero return in the free market as the debtor does.

No it is not. It is a well timed and played strategic move by the Chinese central government. You somehow think all this Chinese business movement around the world in the last 25 years is accidental? Or because of some epiphany experienced by western business leaders? Uhm - no - it is BECAUSE the Chinese central government realised they can beat the west at its own game.

THEY invited the western businesses in, and through a one-sided, cheap labour, protected and manipulated market have palyed the west the entire way.

It is no mistake that the west is indebted to the Chinese - it was very cleverly strategicly played.

It is also a poorly considered and strategically suicidal move by the west to continue this "global business co-operaiton" nonsense with enemy states.

Wrong.

They are all one and the same.

By your flawed and corrupt socialist logic, Henry Ford doing business with the Nazis before WWII was ok, because it was "just business". Excpet he helped the Nazi industrialmachine with his "just business" activities.

You build tomorrows strategic strength with todays strategic actions based on yesterdays strategic planning.

skilled workers?

you mean the sweat shops full of pre teens? :crying: or the countless unpaid young women making upholstery for Buicks?

yea this sucks for america more technology sold off. but china is also struggling my housemate spends half his time there and over the last two years they have also been taking hits, china is also a major part of western global econimical structure were there an american company of six equals a company of 30 in china and tax is pretty much non-existent and are most known for the worst quality control and human rights violations in mass production. they (china)are a major support for western global structure. like i tell all my friends and family look at what u buy and look to see were it was designed,made,built,assembled and grown and when available buy what u belive will help ur family,friends,neighbor,neighborhood,town,city,sta te,providence,country and continent and world but most what u belive in. something ive always done will continue to do when available its not always possible to stay away from cheaper stuff but i try and im sure it helps keep some jobs in the local economy

This is very true.

If you live in Brazil, support "made in Brazil' - in Australia "made in Australi" and so on.

Local manufacturing strength is what allows a country/region to survive recession.

The lack of local manufacturing is what is going to really make it hard for the western countries to come out of this recession.

And local manufacturing does mean "protectionism" - it just means a strong local manufacturing sector can exist in many trading partner countries. Having all the service jobs in one and all the manufacturing in the other is not a good scenario.

can we vote for you next election?
bring that to washington along with a swift and decisive end to the federal reserve and IRS and you have my vote

Sadly my politcal career would end at the first press conference. I would carry an exposed Desert Eagle, and the first time one of the drive-by media would stand up and ask a stupid question, I would pop them in the face with a mercury filled hollow-point.

While this behaviour may get me through the primaries in the southwest, I bet it may not be that well received on the east coast ;)

Whilst not disputing the negative effect this will have on Delphi's products, I think too much is being made of what is a very narrow business decision.

1. I fail to see any form of socialism proposed by what I said. The phrase 'socialist logic' is also an impossibility, so I'm not sure why you're using it.
2. The accusations raised against Ford was that he benefited from slave labour used when the Nazis took over Ford factories - very serious. When you take today's case of selling machinery and intellectual property to an obscure Chinese firm only 51% owned by a state investment company, it just doesn't stack up. It is also not an analogous example as Ford was exactly 'doing business' by selling car parts to Hitler.

It is a symptom of a bigger problem. Selling off manufacturing to an enemy state. A state that has one of the worst human rights records on the planet.

Beijing West doesnt need Delphi or any of their componant parts, they need the end goal of owning a significant percentage o fmanufacturing in the west.

Mate, China hasn't been an enemy of the United States for around 30 years. The first and third communiques were the work of Cold Warriors Nixon and Reagan, so it wasn't just all the peace and love man Carter.

But I do think we are coming to an agreement with some things. Moving away from Delphi, I think you're definitely right about keeping some things for yourself. For instance, I am generally opposed to selling off bits of Australian mining companies to Chinese investment conglomerates.

Sorry "Mate" - but China is an enemy of every western democracy.

Period.

To think other wise is very naive and foolish.

I guess you must not get the real news where you live.

The news about arrests, charges of treason on westerners, stalking western ships in international waters etc etc etc.

So - has China ever done anything to show that it has peaceful intensions with the rest of the world?

Oppressed Chinese rural provinces, oppression in Mongolia, Tibet - lack of military openness, Chinese state support of hacker communities and sponsorship of terrorism via weapons and training around the world.

All true, yet no Western democracy has come close to failing because of whatever China does. The US is still as strong as ever since the Three Communiques. China's focus is keeping control over their own population. If they're trying to bring down democracy, they're doing a pretty shit job of it. They also have no desire to cripple the hand that is feeding them.

Wrong again.

You didnt live through the Chinese assualt on Africa. The Russians coming down the west coast and the Red Chinese coming down the east coast - and with full scale conflicts funded fueled adn backed by the Chinese as late as 1998 continuing now under the guise of "islamic terror cells'

The west in particular is very misguided to think that only islamic militant money is behind the continued miltary backed unrest in Africa - the Chinese are still the major silent partner at work.

They have every desire to cripple the hand that is feeding them, it is only feeding them because of a very clever long term strategy put forward by the Chinese... a tactic they invented.

Keep you friends close, but your enemies closer.

The US was suckered into abandoning Taiwan. You think that was a choice of the US? No sir, it was masterful negotiations by the Chinese.

Dont you find it very strange that of all the "break away democrasies" the US (and the rest of the world) chose to NOT support, was the one single break away democracy that could be used against the last huge communist country?

Again, strategic failure on the aprt of the west, strategic genius on the part of the Chinese.

In a past life I was tasked with leading a group that studied and observed Chinese behaviour in Africa - the sad reality is that becuase the west never dismantled the Chinese communist machine, they will prevail and eventually will achieve their ultimate longterm goal of global expansion.

Their people have to go somewhere, and we happen to be living in their future homes ;)

I'm not entirely convinced Africa is the bastion of Western democracy considering it is not in the West and their democracy is not going great. True nonetheless, especially Sudan, but beside the point.

Taiwan is still supported by the US, in a limited sense, at least militarily. I don't think China will be attacking Taiwan anytime soon. Or ever.

What a racist attitude. So if a Chinese man bought a house in your street you would instantly consider him an enemy subject trying to undermine American democracy?

the only 2 exports I like from the chinese are

1) wonton

2) Bai Ling (just because she is so loose I may even have a chance)

Did youget taught any non-revisionist politicla history at your schools?

You do kno wthat the US and Russia and China actually fought a surrogate war against each other all through the 70's and 80's in Afiica... oh wait that's right, the west was so obsessed with South Africa they failed to see the their government were scolding South Africa from one side of their mouths while sending cash for gold/platinum/aluminium/diamonds and uranium with the other. And the Russians and Chinese were using local warlords to do their dirty work.

Barely supported, it is not even recognised as a legitimate country. The west and the US give more recognition to Hezbollah than they do Taiwan.

Nice. Way to stoop right to the "racist racist racist" cry.

First off, unlike most everyone else (and I sure you included) I don't consider a naturalized citizen to be a "forigner" they are by definition naturalized and a citizen of thei rnew country.

So I have no idea where you racist condemnation comes from.

If a Chinese diplomat moved in next door, well first I would wonder why he was slumming it, but if he did, I would be suspicious of his motives and actions, because all Chinese diplomats are training government intelligence collectors.

If a Chinese corporation decide to buy up huge tracts of industrial, agricultural or residential lands then yes, I would be very suspisious of their intentions.

The reason, the chance that the Chinese corporation is a part state owned and manipulated entity is almots 100% certain - as again, China the country, does not make any geopolitical move by accident.

But then again, what would I know I am just some stupid prick behind a keyboard somewhere.

*edit*

So, I have to ask, you being the hyper-educated legal beagle with all the inside Chino-global contact, do youhave an explanation as to why China has never bothered any of the communist dictatorships on the Asian continent after the Vietnam era conflict, yet has persisted in trying to undermine any local vestiges of peaceful/democratic states?

So they leave North Korea to be a puppet communist state, yet take on Tibet... seems an odd agenda if they only want world peace and to promote a cumbaja world economic utopia....

More likely theyare conciously choosing to leave puppet and potential puppet communist/dictorships in place aroun dthe globe to maintian a surrogate frontline position.

Geopolitics is not traffic court ;)

Fair dinkum, didn't I just say 'True nonetheless'? I know about the whole war by proxy business. I'm not trying to dispute your facts. I just didn't think it was helpful to discuss it in the context of what we were on about.

Clear commit to defend Taiwan against China in the case of invasion is pretty darn good recognition, unlike Hezbollah, scheduled as a terrorist organisation in most countries' anti-terrorism legislation. I believe it is a 1979 Act that details the American promise. Same time as the Second Communique.

That's just incorrect, as China was fighting Vietnam after the Vietnam War. It's dubbed the Fourth Indochina War. Tibet was hardly democratic when China rolled in. North Korea, well, they were the same ethnicity and Communist back in 1949. I guess loyalties die hard, but you definitely have a point there. China supports North Korea as a bulwark against US activities in Taiwan, probably.

I do apologise if you thought I was insinuating you were racist. Your statement can be construed that way, but clearly it was not your intention. Security concerns about the Chinese government are certainly valid, and are in fact made manifest in terms of government hiring practices in Australia. Chinese-born people can't ever get security clearance to work in the Department of Defence, for instance.

I reckon this discussion is coming to a somewhat dignified end. I think we agree on most principles, just not as to extent.

I agree. Well 'argued' guys. I think this thread has run it's course.