China may buy GM/ Chrysler
 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bre...-and-chrysler/

Saw this happening a mile away with Chrysler; however, GM have hit times VERY hard in the last 2 months...

This is a scary thing.

I couldn't care less for Chrysler..but GM???Scary indeed...i really hope this doesn't happen!

No US based oil production, no US steel industry to speak of, the last vestage of local industry sold... all I keep hearing from "knowledgable" economy types is "Well, we are not a manufacturing economy any more, we have matured into a service economy".

Yeah - well being a "service" economy sure didnt bring long lived prospeity did it.

Screw the "global" economy - it cant work the way the academics envision - basic human greed and age old grudges will not allow enemies to co-habitate.

*edit* - as it is, if I am not mistaken, the "import" factories built on US soil get many incentives, tax breaks and free rides US auto factoris do not get.

Couple that with the fcats that US automakers are not permitted to build factories in foreign markets and that US exports to foreign markets are, if I am not mistaken, quota'd and limited while fuurin imports are allowed to continue unchecked it seems that the real failure of hte US automaker is not really that surprising, and had precious little to do with product quality or fuel efficiency.

the problem with any of them going to China is the technology exchange. It should not be allowed...

And Chinese government ownership in said companies.

Sdaly US congressman are sitting like king of the castle asking, no demanding all sorts of guarentees from the automakers for $25 billion, yet the same arseholes GAVE $700 billion with no strings attached to the "financial sector".

Wht a joke these "elected' clowns are.

Pathetic is the word that comes to mind - pathetic.

NEVER! :crying:

It's bad enough that technology is always being stolen by the Chinese everyday...

Those clows are controled by the elite

^Sigh... That's what he meant.

lady liberty can be seen crying in the New York Harbor since November 4th, GM being sold to china would cause her to slit her wrists, let us hope this does not happen

however with all these ass-clowns in congress and the puppets in the senate... I cannot consciously say that it won't happen, we have seen them give out 700 billion of our money to a bunch of morons from wall street, did you all see Paulson say that and I quote

"maybe it was a mistake to give out 700 billion to wall street and AIG"

that son of a bitch! nobody wanted to bail them out I would have been happy to see them go down in flames instead of hearing about their execs getting golden parachutes and spending thousands of dollars in special spa retreats, now I am sure that some restructuring may be what GM needs, and somehow do away with their union problems, that crap is destroying many companies not just GM

I am in the train of thought that they should get it, the 25B... granted the top execs give their resignation on the spot, I don't like Rick Wagoner, he exudes this bullshit attitude, and Bob Lutz... don't even get me started with that snivelling lying piece of work, they got themselves in this pickle no doubt.

Just as an after thought, why can't the morons in congress draft out a set of regulations on foreign cars sold in the US? if we can't sell our stuff over seas, then these people should not be able to so easily sell and build their cars here, with all kinds of government help mind you, Mitsubishi is one company that I am sure many people would love to see dissapear, ask anyone that has ever had to deal with mitsubishi for a warranty thing, they are not very nice, not only that but most of these foreign companies here have real shady repair practices, at least from people I know that have dealt with it, my brother had a Galant in 2003, took it in 3 times for the same problem under warranty, the 4th time it happened he had over 34k miles and they denied him, so he ended up fixing himself and then traded the car in, now he has had his lincoln MK since 2004 and has nothing but good things to say about it, not that the car has not had any recalls or stuff gone wrong but at least they have been nice about it instead of bringing up all sorts of reasons not to fix it every time, like mitsubishit did with the galant, they built the Zero in WW2, anything else you need to know?

We've been a service economy for longer then you've lived here... We've had the longest known bull market in history and are just now doing bad. I hate to break it to you, but it isn't service thats doing that to us.

What fields we are involved in are not decided by global. What it is decided by is our productivity. Improve education, etc if you want to keep the economy going.. Closing the doors doesn't help. International trade is around 10 percent of GDP. It's not the cancer killing this country.

Actually its not any import factory. It's any new factory and they get a free ride from the state as they compete for the jobs. Boeing, a US company, got the same incentives with it's new plant. It is more an incentive for the new enterant then a us versus them, though I agree the states need to quit competing in this aspect.

Or, given GM fairs quite well in foreign markets, it could be the Unions. The average cost of a uaw employee 73 dollars an hour. The average cost of a toyota non union southerner.. 20 dollars an hour. Any questions?

GM fares better in foreign markets than in the US market. The Middle East is another growing market, usually for the high-end products. So much so that Ford Australia has let Holden have all the glory with the long wheelbase cars they export over.

Sandbagging the economy is almost never the answer. Nor should wages be decreased to Chinese levels to compete. Sometimes you just have to let go. Nevertheless, making cars is generally still viable in developed countries. It's withstood the trend towards service economies for long enough.

No one said lower wages to chinese levels. Do Lower wages in this industry from the domestic side to the same level as their US based foreign competitors.. Or at very least to that of other Michigan industries. You have a problem when the difference between working on 5th street and 15th street is 3x the pay for the same job.

And this is part of the problem - the gap between the haves and have nots in the US is wider now than ever, and part of that is the wholesale destruction o fthe manufacturing core.

Now this erosion may have been fueled by unions etc - but the point is that the USA lost its strategic vision a long time go, and the free ride in on the crest of the wave set forth by the great generation is over.

Opening the doors doesn't help either.

One either has the strategic view to empower and strengthen your country or one has the strategic view to strengthn someone elses country.

While the US has been "spreading the wealth' thinking that embracing the global economy will be repaid in kind, the reality is that this is not the case - all that has happened is that global emerging markets (and the few rich Americans particiapting in them) have grown hand over fist, while the average US citizens standard of living has declined and the countries economic powerbase and strategic base is being eroded.

A bankrunpt America is a weak America.

Not to forget, that GM cant just open a new plant in Buttsville Tennessee, because the UAW wont let it happen.

The Feds need to shut down every foreign car plat tomorrow - and then onl yallow them to reopen when each foreign country has allowed a US car company to build and open as many plants there.

Actually very little statistics back up this position. Theoretically free trade should make uneducated low skilled jobs pay less (and have no effect whatsoever on the number of jobs). It should also increase the living standards of this country slightly (very slightly). It will not decrease the standard of living in a country. In actuality though, the amount of drop in unskilled job pay is almost imperceptible and has no correspondence with the movement of jobs overseas.

The reality is trade between nations is not like companys competing. When you trade with a company your selling to its members. Coke or Pepsi are not entirely selling to one anothers employees. Opening up trading does 3 things: 1) If recipricated adds a market for additional demand for some goods 2) Allows us to shift our workers to activities we are more productive at thus increasing our productivity and output 3) reduces the costs of goods within the US. None of these things are bad for the US. Also none have ties to jobs.. Jobs are controlled more by actions of the federal reserve then the 10 percent of our economy that is trade. A 1/4 of a percentage point change in the interest rate will do more to stimulate or reduce jobs then us turning into an island or declaring an end to all tarrifs with respect to jobs.

It does help as it lowers the costs of products in the US. Its the basic concept of comparitive advantage. Both countries benefit by trading as the cost of both goods drops and productivity overal of both countries rises. Productivity is what is important to an economy. And productivity growth has all but stalled in the US. That is a strategic issue, but not a competitive one.

Statistics don't back that take up. In fact they show that US has benefited slightly from our current trade strategy and that protectionist tarrifs of other countries, while disastorous to certain industries, account for so little of the US economy as to have an indiscernable impact.

I guess Im rich as I hold substantial investments in foreign countries including emerging markets and my paycheck comes from a corporation with only a 1/4 of its business done in this country.

Yeah theres a good idea.. Lets put 100s of thousands of americans that work at those plants out of work and encourage a trade war where every market that is now open will close.. Yeah.. Theres an avenue for success... Whose with me.... *Chirp... Chirp*

Actually you are very much in the minority.

Remember there are hundreds of millions of adults in the US, and most of them are not sophisticated economists - mst are simply working middle class people who live in humble condiitons and have to slog there way from every couple of paychecks to evry couple of paychecks (I am not going to say paycheck to paycheck, but pretty close to it)

The reality is that while on the surface it appears the world is a friendly vibrant economic utopia it is not - it is a hostile competitive place - and quite simply people need to decide if they want their grand children and great grand children to live a powerful player in the world or in a weak 2nd rate player in the world.

Much like the folks who won WWII for the Allies did.

Strategically the predominantly democratic West is not longer in charge of the world, and the reality is that the undemocratic players used the wests freedoms to beat them t thei rown game.

Exactly - its about time that the West took back control of the global arena.

Those so called "open" markets are not that open - if they were, today would not look like it does.

And I hate to suggest that the worlds current economic woes are the result of the "economicly educated elite" fucking it up - but sadly we are.

The folks who supposedly knew ho wit all works steared market after market into chaos.

It is very frustrating to look around and see the power being passed from the west to the east the way it being done.

It may make for great short term gains for western profit seekers, but it plays directly into the 100 year plans of many other nations.

If I am thats mostly their own damn fault. Instead of buying big screen TVs, new cars, etc if they invested their money in their 401ks they would be able to invest in any country in the world.

Or could it be that the people in charge, who are not the educated, made stupid decisions and steered us into chaos.. Oh wait they did. Cutting interest rates to constantly juice the economy, not putting regulations in place around the credit crisis, deregulating but not following up to see if the regs they left in place unbalanced the system, and unrestrained govt spending wastes.. Those are the culprits clearly.

Maybe it's better to look at this from what happens if your protectionist theories come into play. First anyone that works for a foreign auto company in the US will lose their job or if you take a slightly less rash approach thousands will be laid off. Then since GM is selling their cars at a loss due to union labor and they dont have a competitor that can compete at normal labor cost levels, they'll jack their price up. Now suddenly Joe Schmoes Focus costs 25k instead of 16k. What does that do to the ability of Americans to buy cars and by defacto the real income and standard of living of this country? Thats right it goes down. One industry would be a minor blip, but you do it in one and like the bailout disease it will spread to all. The real income rich or poor will decrease. The jobs still disappear as the economy isn't recovering (which is the only way jobs will go back up) and the number of cars drops due to the cost increase.

Jimmy Carters is calling, he wants his ideas back.

I see you have been caught up in the elitism of you own success a little ;)

Not everyone with a job in the US (or even the world) has/had exposure to a) pay high enough to yield excess income for investment, b) worked for a 401k enabled company.

Again, another very elitist view that cannot be supported as you will have the wrld believe every person in the world in power is uneducated and stupid.

No my friend, the "economic educated elite" are the ones who were happy to use these "conditions" to milk trillions from the global economy with littl to no long term plans for sustaining the utopia. You cant have your cake and eat it - as in a want laissez-faire economy tp profi from but cry "no regulation" foul when it doesnt go your way and all implodes :)

Had the foreign auto companies not been allowed to build plants until reciprocal plants had been built back in Japan perhaps the problem would not be this deep.

Instead of being hell bent on improving the state of the Japanese auto companies bottom line, perhaps a more strategic outlook would have been to make sure the US would be a strategic player 100 years from now instead of raping and pilaging the market for today with no thought for tomorrow.

Unless the majority of folks view the USA as a failed experiment and figure the entire country may as wel fold up and be absorbed by the world.

My facetious "protectionist" theory is what a proud country would end up doing naturally, protecting its own interest while growing its neighbours - not growing its neighbours (for a few elite profiteers) at its own strategic expense.

I guess the current state of affairs might just be a sad endorsement of the failure of democraticly fostered laissez-faire capitalism... say it aint so.

p.s. the current state of affairs is no longer a theory - its a reality - the world is hurting ;)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27791141/

President-elect has said second stimulus package a top priority

WASHINGTON - A group of business executives on Tuesday urged President-elect Barack Obama to "quickly implement" a large stimulus package soon after taking office.
The recommendation came from a group of executives meeting at a conference sponsored by The Wall Street Journal. The group included Lloyd Blankfein, chief executive of Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Jeffrey Bewkes, CEO of Time Warner Inc., and Wachovia Corp. CEO Robert Steel.

About 100 CEOs at the conference divided into four groups to formulate recommendations for Obama in different areas, including energy, health care, the international economy and the U.S. economy.

The recommendation on the stimulus echoes comments made by a top Obama adviser late Monday. In a speech to the conference, Larry Summers cited a report by Goldman Sachs that suggested the stimulus should be in the range of $500 billion to $700 billion.

Summers, a former Treasury Secretary under President Clinton, is widely considered a top candidate for the same job in the Obama administration.

Days after winning the election, Obama said if a second stimulus package does not get done in the current lame-duck session of Congress, "it will be the first thing I get done as president of the United States."

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obama would totally do it, and already had plans for a 2nd stimulus. WTF....

^^ and just where the hell is Jesus H Obama going to get all that money from? it's not like the government is swimming in money right now, they just forked out 700 Billion

stimulus? of what? how many people live in US? now divide that 500-700b between everybody living in US and that is how much each woman, child and man will have to pay and when people finally say:
"FORGET THIS CRAP, I AM NOT PAYING F%$# YOU BARRACK!!!!" and take to the streets in a civil unrest of massive proportions don't say that there weren't any warning signs flaring at them every day

RC, one thing that you've based many of your arguments on is the fact that foreign-owned factories are in the US. That in itself is not a bad thing. Americans get manufacturing jobs, the cars sold result in gain for those in associated service sectors, and consumers get more choice and cheaper cars. Sure, ultimately, money will head back to Toyota, but not after Americans have had their fill.

While true, its also quite true that the majority of the middle class could be saving more if they werent buying frivilous things. Statistics and personal observations show that. We wouldnt be having anywhere near the forclosures we are seeing if that wasnt true.

Corrupt is more like it. Corrupt with no economics background. None of our politicians are economists last time I checked.

I'm not doing that. We dont have a free market even now. What I am saying is.. If you deregulate your still leaving regulations in place. Those regulations can create an inefficiency in the market if not balanced. So unless you want to go 100 percent free market, some new regulations are useful to counter balance the ones you wont remove.

Only one problem. We dont have and havent in my lifetime had laissez faire capitalism. What your seeing is a failure of the degree of socialism we currently sit at.

Yes - and I have always said that there shoul dbe a reciprocal trade requirement to FORCE the fuurin country to allow a similar factory be built in the home land.

So for every Toyota plant in the US, there would be a GM or Ford or Chrysler plant in Japan churning out asian micro cars - the same way the Jalanese plants (and German plants) churn out US market SUV's and pickup trucks for sale here.

This "global economy" is fine, as long as we win and the other guy loses everytime - because when we dont play the game that way, then they win and we lose.

And after all - life is all about winning.

I didn't know there are/were restrictions on US manufacturers building plants in foreign countries. I always assumed it was more a case of 'they took our jobs!' (think south park)
Is this Japan only? or other countries as well?

Haha, and America can talk.