[SPOILER] 2008 Belgian GP
 

Round 13: ING Belgian Grand Prix
Spa Francorchamps, Belgium

Live feed (thanks styla21):
http://f1stream.googlepages.com/f1itv.html
Another one:
http://www.soccer-live.pl/ITVF1/f1player.php

Free Practice 1:
Times
01 F. Massa Ferrari 1:47.284 25 laps
02 K. Räikkönen Ferrari 1:47.623 25 laps
03 L. Hamilton McLaren 1:47.878 27 laps
04 H. Kovalainen McLaren 1:47.932 24 laps
05 F. Alonso Renault 1:48.104 25 laps
06 M. Webber Red Bull 1:48.428 28 laps
07 S. Bourdais Scuderia Toro Rosso 1:48.557 30 laps
08 S. Vettel Scuderia Toro Rosso 1:48.958 24 laps
09 T. Glock Toyota 1:48.997 26 laps
10 N. Piquet jr. Renault 1:49.068 24 laps
11 R. Kubica BMW 1:49.139 25 laps
12 N. Heidfeld BMW 1:49.185 26 laps
13 N. Rosberg Williams 1:49.611 30 laps
14 J. Trulli Toyota 1:49.625 14 laps
15 D. Coulthard Red Bull 1:49.849 18 laps
16 G. Fisichella Force India F1 1:49.986 27 laps
17 A. Sutil Force India F1 1:50.117 19 laps
18 K. Nakajima Williams 1:50.125 30 laps
19 J. Button Honda 1:50.464 24 laps
20 R. Barrichello Honda 1:50.905 25 laps

Conditions: overcast but dry, potential for rain throughout the weekend (to make things very, very interesting - especially for Ferrari)

Looks like it's Ferrari's turn this weekend.
Bourdais seventh fastest? Great!

lets see what happens during quali BMW!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like Spa, but an early class and a delayed telecast means I must give this a miss. Oh well. Ferrari seems to have good pace, as well as Toro Rosso, which is pleasing for them.

Raikkonen just in P3 :ohmy:
Qualifying:
Pos Driver Team Q1 Q2 Q3 Laps
1. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:46.887 1:46.088 1:47.338 12
2. Massa Ferrari 1:46.873 1:46.391 1:47.678 16
3. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 1:46.812 1:46.037 1:47.815 16
4. Raikkonen Ferrari 1:46.960 1:46.298 1:47.992 14
5. Heidfeld BMW Sauber 1:47.419 1:46.311 1:48.315 18
6. Alonso Renault 1:47.154 1:46.491 1:48.504 18
7. Webber Red Bull-Renault 1:47.270 1:46.814 1:48.736 19
8. Kubica BMW Sauber 1:47.093 1:46.494 1:48.763 20
9. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:46.777 1:46.544 1:48.951 19
10. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:47.152 1:46.804 1:50.319 16
11. Trulli Toyota 1:47.400 1:46.949 13
12. Piquet Renault 1:47.052 1:46.965 15
13. Glock Toyota 1:47.359 1:46.995 13
14. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault 1:47.132 1:47.018 15
15. Rosberg Williams-Toyota 1:47.503 1:47.429 12
16. Barrichello Honda 1:48.153 9
17. Button Honda 1:48.211 9
18. Sutil Force India-Ferrari 1:48.226 9
19. Nakajima Williams-Toyota 1:48.268 9
20. Fisichella Force India-Ferrari 1:48.447 9

Disappointing result for Coulthard. There seems to be a massive gulf in qualifying speed between him and Webber.

a few words about the GP of Belgium...
 

LEWIS F'ing HAMILTON!!

Hahahaha, that was EPIC!

Lewis n1!! Heidfeld n1!!

What a race! Long live the Spa and nasty Belgium weather! :D

Ferrari's just a bit unlucky lately...

This was sick!

I will just say that i'm disapointed...

What a gr8 race to watch, almost as exciting as the british gp...it wasn't that exciting for the most part though...but when hamilton started closing in, and began trying to overtake kimi, it just went mental. Good thing hamilton let kimi pass after he went through that chicane though, but then it started to rain, hamilton and kimi nearly ran into that other car while fighting for 1st, hamilton went on the grass, but then kimi spun and crashed :ohmy:...indeed a gr8 race, more like this one plz :mrgreen:

That was a sensasional race. Hamilton is really good in the rain, the interview shows how confident he is. I remember Kimi was very good in the rain in the past but this year has not been right for him.

Well done to Hamilton and Heidfeld. All the spotlight was on Lewis but it is clear that Heidfeld is very skillful at tricky conditions as well.

The last two laps really had my heart pounding out of my chest!!!
Terribly disappointing result for Kimi. He badly needed a win this week.
But the drama isn't over yet:

This just in:
After investigating the incident, the stewards have decided to give a drive-through penalty to Hamilton (adding 25-seconds to his time). Because of that, he is dropped to third place. Massa then wins the Belgian GP.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70401

i'm sure ferreari are delighted...some real bs in f1, seriously :angry:

It was a pretty exciting race. Last 3 laps left me with a smile that lasted well over the interviews. Such a shame my smile was fast erased by the FIA hinting on Lewis-Kimi review. FIA clearly being more of a Ferrari fan immediately made me realize they were looking for a way to take points away from Lewis even though Kimi pushed him out and Lewis gave the spot back AND passed Kimi again on the other side (not even the same side kimi went by him).

Pretty lame Stewart decision if you ask me (and planetf1 forum Ferrari supporters apparently think so too). If the McLaren appeal gets nowhere, I will (no doubt) boycott F1. I wont be locking out my weekends avoiding parties to be able to wake up at 7am for qualy/race to have such disappointments happen. I almost stopped watching when they fined $100 big ones and disqualified McLaren last year. This is the last stroke.

Wow that's a strange twist to the race, I didn't know that you are not allowed to overtake a Ferrari:ohmy:.

great 1st 5 laps, great last 3 laps.... which is more then most races.

edit:
just realized the stewards are asses. I don't like it when McLaren win, however, the decision is pure bunk. If I were to review the race, and find that he did an illegal maneuver, I'd leave the result, but penalize him for the following race if anything.... not that I would do that.

oh, that was a fun to watch the last 2 laps!

poor Lewis boy, this year FIA's not that helpful..
well, i'd call it even (i didnt forget last year's FIAmilton)

I just finished watching the race, and those two last laps were really great.

I must admit I am quite a Ferrari supporter, which might make it a bit harder for me to defend the fact that I think the stewards were right in giving Lewis a drive-through. He did, rightly so, let Kimi past again after jumping the chicane, but just barely. This was what gave him that great run on Kimi in the hairpin where he past him. So he did gain an advantage form cutting the chicane, though in the next corner, where he passed a car. Hamilton should just have let Raikkonen go and then tried to pass him later in the lap cause he clearly had the better car in those conditions.

Ooh.. Stiff penalty. I feel for Lewis today.
However, rules are rules. It is way to subjective to say that if a Ferrari car had committed the same rule breach, that they would not be penalized. Let's see what the Mclaren appeal yields.

Heidfeld - great decision, great result!
Kimi - heartbreaking.

I am at a loss for words on how Lewis lost that totally deserved win.... I thought that the FIA would atleast have some sense in hiding their support for Ferrari but I guess not. Wow. :-(

I feel for Kimi he dominated that race with out a doubt all the negative talk about him in the last few weeks is null he proved that today till a bit of pressure/rain came at the end.

But the decision by the stewards like this is exactly the kind of crap that ruins great races like this Hamilton deserves that win and taking it away from him is just shear cruelty for no reason. If they absolutely must have punished him they should have left it for the next race not taken away a well deserved and well earned victory.

When Kimi pushed Hamilton out he was just half-a-car behind.. when he returned to the track he let Kimi overtake him... he actually gave more than what he had before .. what happened next was because mclaren was faster... i drive-thru penalty after the race ending is nonsense... perhaps if hamilton had injured a mechanic or hit some flag guy everything would be fine now... seems to work for ferrari

I told you guys. I TOLD YOU ALL FIARRARI... this is total bullshit.. It was the best stint.. It was full on racing. HOW it should be.. Perfeect battle for 1st and 2nd !

And to penalise him. It confirms that FIA should NO longer be apart of F1!

Your full of shit with that comment and i can smell it from here !

FIA has always helped Ferrari win and this is just PURE proof of it.. NO rules where broken UNLESS you call what kimi did right.. NOT giving space and causing another racer to go off track.

he seems to be bringin Michaels Tactics to the track!

FIA NO GO!

If you have the video, you can later see the yellow flag kimmi (Im a BIG kimi fan - Im a McLaren fan and Kimi fan at the same time Lewis is 2nd) neglected to slow down for. He obviously did not get any penalties. Lewis went to the grass to avoid colission Kimi just stormed past w/o lifting.

How is this:

more penalty worthy than


Remember Schumacher did NOT get a penalty for that pass.

If you gain an advantage or cause disadvnatge though non-legal methods, you must be penalised to the extent of the advantage gained. The is true in all sports. In soccer, if you are dispossessed through an illegal tackle, you get an indirect free kick. Play continues as if the offence did not occur. It is the same principle in tort law. If you are hurt when a car runs you over, you get damages to compensate you for medical costs and loss of wages. Nothing more nothing less.

Hamilton gained an advantage by cutting the chicane and in the ensuing situation, disadvantaging Raikonnen. Tough call, but not incorrect. The standard penalty of 25 seconds was imposed, the same penalty, I might add, given to Timo Glock after he overtook Mark Webber under yellow flags.

It is hard to prove that FIA favours Ferrari. There is no precedential analysis to confirm that in the recent past, the same FIA stewards panel have let illegal racing moves go unpunished. Stewards have nothing to gain from favouring one team. They just call it as they see it.

He gained an advantage that he then gave back... he kept it close which any body would have. The two above videos are perfect examples of it and you gotta love how Schumi never got a penalty yet today's incident is more penalty worthy? Common give me a break that was spectacular driving on both drivers parts and FIA's ruling is uncalled for. The race was great and this is just ruining it.

In the end what FIA sais goes but i really hope the apeal goes through and this is overturned, in true F1 fasion watch this get solved towards the last race or two really kicking things up.

Mattk your a tool.. its people like you that make good racing shit... They battled for pole position kimi cut off Hamilton off and caused him to go OFF track.. Do you think it would of been wiser for them to collide and have two cars off the track ? I dont think so Hamilton pulled the correct move. He avoided a collision that was bening forced upon him and did it well.. Hamilton coming out in front was luck and shows HOW unprofessional Kimi is becoming. I loved it.. not cause i support Mclaren BUT the fact it brought back the awesome memories of Mansel and Senna.

Fia is supporting Ferrari every step of the way and this just proves it even more!

Different time, different panel. That was then, this is now. Obviously, the stewards of today take a different view.

Actually, no it doesn't. It only potentially proves that the FIA doesn't like Lewis Hamilton.

Also, did I ever say that I thought Hamilton should have been penalised? No, I did not. If I were a steward, I probably would have let it go. It's not worth a 25 second penalty, in my opinion. But I'm not a steward and I can't fully justify it because I'm not trained in that respect. Neither are you.

Most of us are to be honest.. i do part time stewarding! (Amateur and still learning) So your input above was done with NO knowledge and only what’s on paper if even that. So its flawed, Hamilton did the right thing and should NOT have been penalised. Kimi should have been flagged moved down a position on the grid for his driving, IF we want to follow paper work. When Hamilton Merged in front of Kimi at the turn he LET him pass and then stuck behind. AS you might recall it happened in Germany Where he over took the car in the chicane and didn’t allow him to pass he got fined. He let the Ferrari pass this time and still go fined! Unfortunately you logic is lacking of proper knowledge.

Sorry mate i like your input but sometimes its WELL and ABOVE weirdness! i don’t know HOW you come to your conclusions BUT I’m pretty sure when it comes to politics your pretty good at it ;)

As I said before and as EVERYONE is seeing but your most of you are failing to acknowledge. FIA is supporting Ferrari. I think it might because they are bringing in the most money but it’s in NO way sportsmanship.

FIA and F1 Should go there own ways.!! FIA has been a massive ANCHOR on F1 and this is just proof with a cherry on top!

I'm going to play devils advocate here. - How can you say it was a well-deserved and well-earned victory, if in the stewards opinion, Hamilton was deemed to have an advantage from his shortcut? It couldn't have been a "well earned victory" if the stewards deem Hamilton to have gained by going off course, and hence the penalty.:-)

Having said that, I feel it was highly likely that Hamilton would have won regardless. ;-)

Hi :)

I've been watching that race yesterday (like i watch all the races if i can, time-wise it's a bit difficult in Asia) and believe me, in that last two laps both me AND my boyfriend (who doesn't like motor racing at all!) were standing up watching that action there!

And even HE said that Lewis, but letting Kimi pass him again, did everything correct - he (my boyfriend) doesn't know jack about F1 rules but applied simple logic - gain advantage by skipping a chicane, then let the opponent pass again - all clear. What followed was clean and pure racing.

Plus, wasn't it Kimi who squeezed Lewis off the track there?? What was Lewis supposed to do, drop the anchor and risk a spin??

I used to be a Ferrari fan but i have completely changed to be a Lewis Hamilton-fan - because of the way he drives, no more. he's an excellent driver, full stop.

But this whole season looks like FIA prefers Ferrari and does everything it can to have them win, on-and-off the track.

Regards.....

Thanh

In soccer, one player awards BY CHOICE a penalty/free throw to the other team by making a foul. Lewis had NO CHOICE but to go to the grass or hit Kimi. Mattk, if you really dont see how FIA clearly favor Ferrari then you are really blinded by Ferrari. I bet you think Schumacher won every year by pure talent, not by cheating EVER.

I say that IMO steward opinion is obviously different. But IMO he did nothing wrong he pushed hard at the end and won it.

I am a Ferrari fan (I don't like any driver), but this is the way I watched the situation: I didn't see anything wrong with Raikkonen's move on the chicane. Hamilton was not ahead of him neither at the enter of the chicane, nor at the middle of it, so Raikkonen had the right to keep the line as he did, and yes, it is a normal move to push off someone if there are scape routes. Hamilton did also the right thing by cutting the chicane to avoid contact, and still did the right thing giving back the position to Raikkonen. Here is where comes the debate: how settled in their positions the cars should be to be considered that the car that cut the chicane has given back the place? and, in this specific case, was there any advantage from the car behind, the one that cut the chicane, on the straight? It can be 'said' that yes, because cutting means that it has more momentum when comes back to the track, but there is no way for us to know, because, according to McLaren's reports on media "Lewis was 6km/h slower than Kimi as they crossed the start-finish line" (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/9/8334.html), but we do not know how true it is, or what McLaren, neither Ferrari data banks hold of the situation. Only stewards have access to the data.

Having said that, as a personal opinion, much to my sadness, I would feel like Hamilton gave back the spot, but did not deserve that win. To me, alongside Bourdais, Raikkonen was the man of the race and the honorable winner of it.

^^^ I wouldnt expect anything different from a Ferrari fan lol .. Hamilton gave teh spot back got it abck and won... Penalties are only given to other teams other then ferrari..

I Can't F---ing believe the FIA would do something so stupid!!!! I just don't see where Lewis had any more of an advantage. Unbelievable.

So? Perhaps that means Ferrari did nothing wrong. I think you're the one blinded by obsessiveness with McLaren.

You can't distinguish it that way. In every sport, soccer, basketball, cricket, netball, rugby, Aussie rules, well-meaning actions causing disadvantage must still be penalised. Illegal contact not resulting in disadvantage is almost never penalised. The test is always one of advantage/disavantage. The stewards determined that Hamilton got an advantage that he maintained even though he gave the position back. That was a determination of fact. McLaren can appeal, and they can still win, but at the moment, the stewards have told us what happened, and we've got to believe them.

Ah common that's a bit harsh wouldn't you say the kid did good despite me being a Mclaren fan theirs no question Kimi dominated that race although I really do feel for Kimi going out the way he did sucked but he fell apart a bit at the end with the weather changing which gave Lewis that slight edge he needed.

The fact that I do not like Hamilton or any other driver but that I like Ferrari, does not mean I will be totally sided to favour Ferrari always. I just said that, in my opinion (biased and without any way to access that data) Hamilton deserved the place after cutting the chicane, but Raikkonen drove an amazing race and deserved the win. It's a pity for the accident, but that's the way it is.

What it is clear is your anti-Ferrari obsession, which does not help either.

A disappointing end to a great race for alot of reasons, first of all the coverage was very lackluster, spending the last lap or so watching Hamilton drive around the track at 40 mph while Heidfeld and Alonso are overtaking 2 cars in one corner. Makes you wonder if the directors that Bernie hires actually watch or even like motorsport.

As for the contraversy, I am a Kimi (not Ferrari) fan and I was very excited for him and also for a close championship when he took the lead early on, when Hamilton made his pass into T1 I was very dubious as to whether or not he had yeilded sufficiently to balance out his cut of the bus stop. Looking back I still don't think the incident is clear cut in itself and there is very little precedent in recent seasons (the incident with Schumi above was in slightly difference circumstances ie. de la Rosa took the position eventually). I would also argue that the 6 km/h speed differential was slightly negated by the fact that Hamilton was immediately able to jump back in Raikkonen's tow and also by the fact that he interfered with Raikkonen's line into the braking zone for T1, two factors which contributed to Hamilton being able to outbrake Raikkonen and retake the lead.

The situation with Rosberg and the yellow flags is again not completely black and white, Hamilton was, by his own admission, on his way off the track already when he encountered Rosberg, Raikkonen simply threaded his way past Rosberg to take the position. I don't think this can really be considered an intentional overtaking manouver.

In the end the FIA's decision was always going to be contravertial one way or another, my only real problem with it is that they took so long to make it. As with Massa in Valencia the air of indecision around these rulings, especially when Ferrari are involved, breeds suspicion and conspiracy theories and they really need to take a look at increasing their transparency. In recent years again and again it has become a problem when the FIA adopts the position that they know better than everyone watching the race because they have access to data that none of us plebs are allowed to see. Highlighted by Max Moseley's chat with Martin Brundle on the grid of Monza in 2006 when his entire argument was based around some magic data which to this day has not seen the light of day, obviously in this situation contraversy will ensue. If the FIA is making fair and impartial decisions then they have little to fear by increasing the transparency of their investigations and publishing the data which proves their case not only to the teams but to the fans who are ultimately writing their paycheques.

Another sad day for F1 as a sport and also for the funniest guy in the paddock.

I watched the video and here is what I saw.

When Lewis backed off letting Kimi be in front Lewis immediately tucked in behind Kimi resulting in Lewis being closer to Kimi than he would have been had he followed Kimi through the corner. As soon as he tucked in behind Kimi Lewis was on the gas to stay on Kimi until he could pull out and pass. Had Lewis followed Kimi through the corner it's very unlikely he could have gotten close enough to slipstream and pass.

As to the incident at the chicane, after the race, Ron Dennis said Lewis was ahead at the chicane. Looking at the video shows that Lewis was never ahead at the chicane. Kimi went wide at the chicane and Lewis ran out of room. That can happen when a driver tries to pass on the outside of a turn, that's racing.

What Lewis should have done is stay back until Kimi exited the next corner and there would have been nothing to investigate and Lewis would have passed Kimi before the end of the race.

Although I agree with you regarding Hamilton's actions after cutting the chicane I think it is pretty obvious Raikkonen pushed Hamilton out of the corner intentionally which he has every right to do. Hamilton accepted that when he tried to make the pass down the outside and acting like Raikkonen did anything against the rules into that final chicane is ludicrous.

To me it was fair, and this is one I really wanted Kimi to win. I was excited for him after taking the lead at the start, and it was great to see he was clearly trying hard for the win. His driving may have been a little dirty but he earned my respect for his determination and I think he proved he still has that passion for racing people have been saying he'd lost. I was crushed watching him hit that wall, but I like how he was out there to win or lose.
And well done to Heidfeld, it was like Reubens at silverstone. Heidfeld seems to have a thing for taking 2 cars in one corner! lol didn't he do it twice in germany?

i dont think lewis should have been penalized for that, ive been watching racing along time and never seen anybody cut a chicane give the position back then repass and get penalized for it if anything kimi running into the back of lewis in the hairpin seems more like a infraction compared to what lewis did which was a # 2 driver trying to take him out haha, and kimi dominating that race would of been if lewis not catching back up to him. i dont know i could be wrong but dominating would not have the comp not trying to pass u on the outside. kimi can run into the back of whoever he wants and not get penalized and when heikki runs into the back of massa i hope he doesent get penalized either

So watch the video I posted where Schumi skips the corner and still is not penalized. That happened 2006 tell me why no drive thru penalty?

go to planetf1.com and read around. There is a forum. Even ferrari fans admit that this decision was BS

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,1895...114467,00.html a well written document. Planetf1 is not pro ferrari or pro any team. They have several different writers and info is posted there real fast. I am refreshing that all the time to see the decision of the appeal.