Tesla production slated for march 17.. car has already failed you heard it hear first
 

The Tesla has been approved by the feds for sale. It goes on Sale March 17th... But.. the car is a shell of its former self.

If you recall I pointed out they were experiencing problems with getting the transmission to work with the car and it would be significantly slower.. Well guess what..

Your 100,000 dollars buys you 0-60 in .... Wait for it.. 5.7 secs..
and 200 miles per charge.


Ladies and gentleman.. "Gasoline has left the building"<sic>
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=10471

Gray. Why exactly, do you think this has failed?
For a complete alternative to oil based fuels, regardless of performance or mileage, this is still a dramatic breakthrough. Isn't it?

From a business stand-point, replacing all the gearbox's seems expensive!! They must have a real incentive to bring this to market.. Quickly!

What exactly is it an alternative too? 200 miles a tank means its not a gt car. 2 seater means you cant carry people.. so not a people carrier..
5.7 seconds means its not a supercar as originally billed despite having all the negatives of one.
In fact 5.7 seconds is at best as fast as, what?, a hot hatch or a upper level Miata. The problem is these cars don't cost $100,000. So How many 5.7 second sports cars cost 100000? 0... So not competing there.

Finally we touch on the environment. Pollution.. 6000 Lithion batteries. That just went out the window.

The key was to be competitive wasn't it? Instead what we have is a elise that costs 2x as much, costs more to maintain, doesnt help the environment, is a second slower to 60, weighs signifcantly more... Seems like a step back to me.

Regardless of the car's performance, isn't this car an evolution in technology that finally moves away from oil, or a part oil-based engine. The model T wasn't outstanding in its performance in its time, but within a decade, man's natural ability to enhance and improve its technologies had been demonstrated.

This car is not a logical purchase for you or I today, but does it not provide the template for cars we may be driving in 10 years time? Or otherwise can be described as, a "breakthrough"?

:-)

What your defining is a concept car not a production car. Certainly not a production car that was originally touted as a super car and went from 4 seconds to almost 6 seconds during realization.

The model t was competitive with the cars in its era for price per performance. The point is, it had practical value. What value is this car over whats out there? What entices the buyer? Thats the difference between a production car and a concept car. Even Im not cinic enough to believe the car is going to sell enough to stay afloat just because it has a different engine. If that were all that was needed I can show you about 50 local electric car companies that would be worth millions.. Instead Ive only ever seen them on the golf course and the show room floor.

The Model T built a nation by allowing the ordinary man to be mobile.

That is why it helped establish ther automobile, an industry, a region and unltimately an entire culture, way of life and empowered a nation....

This piece of crap does nothing - it doesnt even help reduce global warming.. ;)

I understand your point. I am referring to a production car, that successfully for the first time has gone to market with an evolutionary completely non-oil powered engine. A concept car has simply remained that - a concept. The Tesla, is going to market with what may be the most evolutionary step in the life of the engine. Big statement I know.

I cannot comment on the telsa's environmental impact - I do not profess to have your technical understandings, or knowledge in this area. It may turn out to be much worse than the petrol engine!! But the point is that this is an evolutionary tear-away from the automotive industry so long dominated by oil-based engines. The oil-tit, if you will, may have been weaned?
I agree with everything you are saying.

And this all sounds great; but it is irrelevant. I asked whether the Tesla may be an
"evolution", not a revolution. :-)

Actually very relevant - the Model T allowed millions access to personal transport... because it was cheap.

That allowed it to be evolutionary. The Tesler is so expensive it is going to be the 'enviorinmental fashion statement of the wealthy' - and at 4 times more expensive than the Toyota Prius which failed to be the "evolutionary" car of the 21st Century, what hope does the Tesla have? ;)

Many would buy a hybrid or electric car - only if it was cheaper to buy than the cheapest gasoline car - and so far this has not been possible.

Electric cars suck
It's creating global warming.
The internal combustion engine is still the future in some form.
:-):-)

its just another car to sucker people in the cloud of 'smugness', and time will forget the car.... not the man (Tesla).

nice saying there. nothing compares with the sound and feeling of an gasoline car!!!

I don't mind that there are 'alternative' fuels and such out there, as long as I (everybody) still have my freedom to buy, and drive whatever I want.

To me, the most true symbol of freedom is the automobile...

To me, the most true symbol of freedom is the automobile...::::::so true!!!!11:thumbup::thumbup:
imagine a World Rally electrical powered car...LOL:laugh:

That would be boring.
What would be next electric f1 cars ?
The internal combustion engine is still the king!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:mrgreen::mrgreen::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

I agree 100% whit you
:-):thumbup:

Not a first there either.. I can show you plenty of electric cars on the market. They all have the same problems this one has and no one buys them.

And how would you fill up int he middle of Arizona or West Texas? Plug in and wait till it charged up? With electricty generated by oil and coal fired power stations hehe ;)

But the time it's charged you be dead in the middle of the desert.
:-P:-P:-P

That rocks :-)

In my opinion, the reality of the situation is that this will be a successful car, whether or not it is practical. For those who will buy this car, it will be one among many in their garage, so it's not like they care about practicality. Celebs and millionaires alike are buying it for the image of being green, or just buying it for the sake of being green. This will give Tesla the revenues they need to then build a more practical electric performance car in a few years. For now, it's just a necessary evil to build capital.

You are assuming that car collectors are even thinking of being green. Movie stars... Tesla needs much better marketing to do that... Holywood types know the auto industry like I know the Russian Language. I may be able to pick out 5-10 words, but comprehension is nil.

50 years ago+ celebs + cars made a difference in sales, not including the Governator and his Hummer's.


Styla, if you think logically, rather then emotionally.. you would see the car is crap, didn't hold to it's promices, and ultimately isn't a fun car for what it is worth.... that battery wont run at 100% power repeatable 0-60 runs throughout the day, let alone throughout its lifespan..

I couldn't agree more with you, Nth! :-)

My point was that this car is breaking the combustion-engine mould, and perhaps beginning a new direction in how cars as we know them, are powered. Can this point be disputed? RC will probably conject that oil is the be all end all of a cars power delivery :-P. But aside from RC, most people would agree with the reality that is in 10, maybe 20 years time we will most likely be driving non-combustion engine powered cars!

Thus my point is that this car seems to be creating a platform for which the automotive industry must start moving toward.

Not for a second do I believe that the Tesla, could compete today with the market as we know it in performance, reliability, comfort (ride & power delivery) or cost. :-) Unless it was a Daewoo. Anything is better than a Daewoo.

Uniqueness though? 5 stars.

A friend of mine has an electric car that is 105 years old, and the technology used then is remarkably similar, if smaller in stature then what is used today.

My point is that I don't care that there will be electric cars, so long as governments don't regulate the production of petrol, or regulate things like "CAFE" and such... let me buy the car I choose to... let the market decide the answer, not a silly government.

in 20-50 years time, I see petrol still being the primary driving source of personal transportation, and enthusiastic recreation, since it is the best compromise for performance, economy, and usability.

Not really.. I just got done watching an episode of top gear from 1991 that featured an electric car that was sold. The reality is it isn't even ground breaking. Hell its not even the first supercar. There was a top gear some years back about a 300000 super car electric car.
And yes this point can clearly be disputed. Why?
At present all the electric car has shown for the last 30 years (and trust me your prolly showing your age but this whole alternative fuel source thing has been tried before) is it doesnt work.

If we are it won't be for the reasons you think. Oil isnt running out and won't by any means. If we are it will be because some alternative is cheaper. Can you look us all in the face and tell us this car even comes close to that line? Before you have a concept that does that you don't have anything significant.

Show me an equal car to a petrol in at least some aspects.. and youll have one of the alternatives of the future.

I think in 25 years the once powerful 1st World West will be struggling under the weight of impending financial implosion and collapse under the self imposed "green non-oil" energy failures, whilst the then powerful 3rd/2nd World will be dominating the world with its oil powered industry ;)

Sort a reverse industrial revolution - The reformed Soviet Union, China, Africa and South America will be prospering using their own and middle eastern oil - while the west will barely be able to feed itself as the price of corn/sugar ect will have skyrocketed to new heights and become the next "wealth builders" for the energy companies.

All the while there will be no electricity to recharge the electric cars as all the powerplanst will be shut down.

:)

car and driver posted sub-5 second 0-60 times in their test runs

It's not very surprising since electric cars produces instant torque.
http://greatgreengadgets.com/gadgets...7/02/tango.jpg

This car, for example, produces 1000ft lb of torque to the rear wheels.

It not going to go anywhere fast, though since it only has one gear. (Tesla)
Oh, incidentally, Tesla claims sub-4 sec 0-60. :-P

They originally claimed sub 4 second....

is it new test in c+d that ran 4.x 0-60?

Gah! I just specced a Tesla Roadster up to $105,750 without doing anything!

I dout it somehow. The Tesla CEO himself said 5.7 seconds:
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog2/?p=55

Car and driver must be quoting original numbers cause the man isnt going to low ball his car. My whole point was.. by going from sub 4. to now just barely sub 6.. the car is not worth it.

^Yeah. I read Motor Trend today and they said they saw the car do 0-60 in 4sec. I figured they were too lazy to actually measure that and just quoted the original brochure... :-P

I think whether this car is a success or not cannot be determined at the current time. I think it is foolish to come to conclusions so early in the car's production lifespan. Let the car be delivered, let the numbers speak for themselves. It is then, and only then, that you can conclude whether or not this car is a success or not, financially, economically, and emotionally. :-)

You say that, but it's a limited production car that costs $100,000. So we can't really see if it's successful in the traditional sense. Of course, I call it a failure because it failed to meet the promises that the Tesla execs made years ago.(except for the superior chassis from Lotus) If there's one car that completely fulfilled its promise, it's probably the Bugatti Veyron.(after much much delay) :-P

Go on everyone! Skip to the conclusions! :mrgreen:
Don't get me wrong, though. I'm growing warm to this...thing.

Even on that basis, we cannot judge entirely. There have been no official track tests of this car, no official battery of tests. Also, the car is not in its final stages, what with new transmissions being developed as we speak. It is too early to consider this a failure in any respects, as the numbers on the car have not yet been finalized.

Read it again. This is the production car we are talking about, not the test mule. The car goes to production in a little over a month and the CEO said it will ship with this poor acceleration. He made some words with respect to retrofit, but that doesnt change the fact that the delivered product falls far short of what was promised. If id put money down id want it back right about now. 5.7 has been finalized by the manufacturer and will be the rating for the production car.. What happens a year further down the road is inconsequential.

As for handling. Its a heavier car with 1 speed... If you really think its going to handle like an elise you must have failed physics.

Its a heavier, slower, more expensive, less practical (as if that were possible) Elise. If you can rate that a success youve got one hell of a rap.

By saying it failed just because it is going 0-60 1 second slower than first projected is just the hater in you ;)

Sure it does not have the all around practicality of a regular car, and of course no where near the practicality of a GT like a Corvette. But with a ~200 mile range, good looks in a package that will be fun to drive, it sure makes for a fun car to commute in.

All in all, this is a very expensive toy.

What is sad is that the technology that drives this car is the same technology that has been around for over 100 years already.... the only improvements have been in the size of the battery, and circuitry.... efficiency, and usability is about the same as it's always been :-\

I saw and discussed GM's own electric cars dating back for the last 45 years... smaller, not longer, not faster...

Battery life has certainly gotten better within the last 100 years... and that is the most important factor when it comes to building electric cars. I don't know whether or not this Telsa uses the latest and greatest efficient batteries, but it damn well should for what they are charging for the car.

No ones comparing it to the Vette. I am comparing it to the Elise since it is essentially a tuner Elise.

Now lets pretend for a minute that smugness is out. Would you consider a tuner car a success if it: had limitations on the distance traveled, was double the cost, cost more to maintain, was worse for the environment, was at least a second slower, and handled worse. Tell us point blank youd consider that a success in anything and you have your answer.

As a 4 sec car the tesla would have competed with supercars.. it would have been a success to improve one aspect of the elise and supercars dont need to be as practical.
As a 5.7 sec car the tesla competes with the hot hatch miatas and s2000s of the world.... with a price point of 100k. Theres not a redeeming positive for it over its competitors in this market. Therefore its a failure. Ignore for a second the smugness and name one category where it one ups what it is based on. Thats a challenge.

I drove 130 miles today (which included a few rollons and dices with some other sportycars on the road - I won, but would have lost if I had been driving my Tesla) , and have to still drive 35 miles home in stop and go traffic... if I had been driving my Telsa I would be stranded on the side of the road at around 8pm tonight ;)

Hardly a success :P

I get your point. The car has truly failed to be a replacement for a supercar, but then again, it never really was supposed to be a supercar replacement. True motorheads will compare it to similar gasoline sports cars, but the Tesla is really in its own market as an electric. Do you really think the 99% of the people who are even considering coughing up the $100k for this car care about the extra second to 60mph?

NO, but they would car about getting their arses kicked by these 2...

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6...0633nd6.th.jpg

And would care about not being able to get out of their own way, or drive more than a few blocks on a charge ;)

The car is a stupid engineering excercise... how is it innovative at all? I am guessing they had to go ahead and make/sell the car in its current pathetic form, or face devastating lawsuits for non-delivery.

Your cheating and again using the smugness.. An intangible quantity that has no real value.

As for 100k... I like to think most of the people that have that type of money, outside of movie stars, arent dumb enough to waist their money on a 100k elise. If they are.. Well maybe I should start trying to sell swamp land or something. Maybe the first ever electric toothpick...

Now why didn't I think of that? :mrgreen:

Both MotorTrend and Road and Track haven't actually tested the car. They've just done the "first drive" thing where they get some initial impressions. Both magazines printed the 4.0 second 0-60 time and had a ride in an earlier prototype, although, no actual tests were done. I haven't read my new issue of Car and Driver yet, so I'll see what they reported later.

I just glanced at the Car and Driver article. They're reporting 5.0 seconds flat to 60.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,426522,00.html

Lotus is now pissed with Tesla for failing to come to market quick enough...

^Yes. Dodge badged electric Lotus Europa as Tesla rival is an epic LOL. :laugh::laugh::laugh:
http://www.foxnews.com/images/441259...hrysler450.jpg

Stupid Tesla.

Well I was wrong. I suspected this car company would go the way of so many other startups. Motor Trend Magazine has reported that Daimler Benz has purchased 10% of Tesla.

Even so, Elon Musk is determined that the company survive for a while; regardless of making or not making a profit.

The Dodge Lotus Evora, as it turned out was a hacked out Tesla that Dodge bought from them; and put into a Lotus Evora via Lotus proxy... kinda confusing, I know. Lotus weren't too happy about the dodge grill on their Evora before it's world premier.