Does the McLaren F1 handle well?
 

You can start the discussion after watching this video:


I think it is a good hadling car, but the suspesion set up looks too soft. What do you think?

^^ It does lean a bit indeed :shock:

Do scheiße films always have a happy ending?

Re: Does the McLaren F1 handle well?
 

It is definitely soft - designed for the average street with its bumps and stuff and not the track. All it needs to be a killer road/track car is bigger brakes, stiffer rear suspension and perhaps a wing in the rear to add some downforce.

The first generation racing F1 GTRs had the following enhancements to make it track ready:
- Rear wing for more downforce at the rear
- Redesigned diffuser and side skirts
- Removal of rubber bushes at the front
- Replacement of the soft compliant rubber bushes for rigid aluminium ones in the rear
- The road height and camber geometry was not changed to comply with contemporary regulations
- Air restrictor to reduce engine power
- Removal of cats and exhaust silencers
- removal of extraneous trim and equipment
- Enhanced oil cooling but while other cars used a "crash" gearbox, the F1 went with its road going gearbox with synchromesh.
- 18" OZ racing wheels with lower profile tires
- Carbon brakes - curing one of the biggest weaknesses of the car

All in all not that much done to it to take a road legal car and make it a Le Mans and GT Championship winning cars.

there are many other road cars for the road that do better on the track... very many; not even including the upper eschelon super exotics.... which they all do better on the track as well.

But, do you think the BMI guys wanted video of the F1 spinning out from under them? I'm sure there would've been more left in teh car, but that is driving it ath the limit where it understeers, then snap oversteers without warning, or simply just snap oversteers.... i don't think so.

the car doesn't handle well, even considering the soft suspension.

the question on the brakes is a different one... I'm not familiar as to if the F1's brakes had fade issues on the track or not, but if the tires can lock up, then its not the brakes that are the issue.

restricting the F1? I seem to recall the restricted F1's still made jsut 10 or so less hp....

yeh, the F1 is ugly, and handles for crap. There are better things to spend money on if you have the extra.

you are entitled to your opinion of course

as are you, no matter how wrong it is :P hehe :wink:

You dont know crap about the F1 either :lol:

Ah, the classic BM video - one of the first to show a street F1 on a track. If memory serves, this was the episode where they compared it against a bunch of other cars, including 964 RS, and a F355, I think.

Any way, the Brits in general, and Gordan Murray in particular, tend to prefer softer set-ups, which helps the car deal with their crappy 'B-roads' and such. Murray asked Ron Dennis from the outset, whether they intended to race this car. naively, Ron answered no at the time. Thomas Bscher, now head of Bugatti was one of those instrumental in getting Ron to reconsider. That's why the GTR happened.

The best track day F1, to the best of my knowledge, remains the F1 LM (only 5 made). It used straight cut gears though (very noisy), which kind of takes away one of the greatest aspects of F1 ownership - the engine note.

True

Considering the track conditions (92% humidity) the laptime was really good. So no doubt it is a very fast car and a more than competent track car.

The guy was missing a couple gear shifts (especially across the gate ones).

Forgot to thank you for the video - its always good to see the F1 - the greatest car in the world - fuck the naysayers :D :wink:

There was a similar topic a while ago:

http://www.motorworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=42263

My opinion: It's not a very forgiving car, you have to know exactly what you're doing, especially with 627 bhp right under your right foot. But to say that it handles like shit, is exactly that: bullshit.

^ Open your own steamboat topic! :lol::wink:

The latest Evo pits the F1 against the 9 other cars including the Veyron,
GT3, Enzo, CGT, NSX-R. the author mentions how he thought the F1 was overrated. Then he got to drive it for the first time. He brings up some valid faults but leaves an F1 fan!

Hi there! :D


lot of fucking going around - sometimes we have too much fun here. :lol: Is the cold dying down there in NYC? Cheers mate!

2 faults in that! 1: They are not supercars but hypercars and 2: The Veyron isn't the king! :prr:

Yeah, it may be overrated, but that still means it's monstrously good! :D

This is also a funny vid (listen to the comment of the owner):
:arrow: http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/trackday...n_fastest.html

^ Thanks .. doesnt she sound good on the track ... the best sounding engine ever :)

it does sound good, but IMHO, the Enzo V12 w/ tubi sounds better.... i know stock vs. modified = not comparable

An Enzo with Tubi may well sound better from the outside, but IMO there are very few cars that sound better from the inside than a McLaren F1. That's mostly due to the ferociously throaty induction bark from the 12 individual throttle bodies. Although the Enzo has ITB's too, it sounds a lot less throaty than the F1... Man, I love that sound! :)

LMAO

The car has what Flemke calls a sports exhaust (not stock of course) and he reckons that the car has around 680hp.

^ That's what an F1 LM has...

:sleeping:

hahahahha

for once, (or maybe a few times) I agree 100% with you, Macca F1 = :sleeping: :lol:

it's a very nice car. and it definately sounds best from within 8)

:roll:

I was talking about Flemke`s car , it has bigger wheels than a stock model plus the exhaust, read the EVO article.
That car is by no means stock.

No shit... I never said it was. I was just saying the LM has 680 bhp too, nothing more.

Suspension too soft? But when Clarkson drives the C6 Z06 it breaks his back? Come on, you can't have it all.

XJ220 pwns F1:P

(ok, so its not a direct comparison... but look at the cornering vs. the macca video posted ;) )

I love this vid, thanks! 8)

The racing regulations allowed for a max of 600hp I believe, so the restrictor brought the power down from 627hp+ to 600hp, so almost 30hp drop.

but isn't it upto the factory to restore as much power as possible given the restrictor which is placed... All race teams do this... it's never an "even" playing field in GT1 cars, GT2 cars, Prototypes etc. etc. ... not just different chassis...

one possiblity is that Macca added tons of torque, but were able to keep it at a "legal 600 hp" or so... torque wins races ;)

You are absolutely right Sentra! :)

F1 road car:
Power: 627 bhp @7500 rpm
Torque: 480 lb-ft @5600 rpm
Weight: 1140 kg

1995/6 F1 GTR
Power: 600 bhp @7500 rpm
Torque: 527 lb-ft @ 4500 rpm
Weight: 1050 kg which dropped to 1012kg in 1996 and 915kg in 1997

1995 F40 LM GTE
Power: 630 bhp @ 7300 rpm
Torque: 520 ft lbs @ 5000 rpm
Weight: 1100 kg



F1 LM
Power: 680 bhp @7500 rpm
Torque: 519 lb-ft @ 4500 rpm
Weight: 1062 kg

so it looks like I was right as well? ;)

The veyron is overpowered rowing boat that is only fast in straightline.
The mclaren f1 a is f1 racing boat fast and nimble.
And it thougt that flemke re engineerd the suspension on his mclaren and fitted better brakes?
:D :?:

^^ Indeed, nice to see you understand Pagani! 8)

I think not
The mclaren f1 still faster than the ferrari enzo round a track even if it's weaker chassis and weaker brakes than a modern supercar.
90's technologic and still beats all current supercars round a track.
So it's still the king.
:D :wink:

what track, what form of F1 (how many F1's do we have to have to get a fast one around a track?) Is the suspension as the factory set it Originally

Any trackday king with a F1 can have the geomoetires re-set... but... lets look at the video originally posted, and tell me that is somehow faster around a track then an Enzo. It just isn't.

It doesn't beat the new supercars, and it didn't beat the old supercars either.

Jag XJ220 = superior cornering, steering feel
Vector W8 = superior cornering, power, tire tech, safety, steering feel
EB110 = superior in almost every way as well, particularly if you opt for one of the 9 real EB110 SS models with over 700 hp.
F40 = superior handling, steering feel

The F1 is a loose can of tuna with an a mazing engine.

And, pagani, I guess you didn't read my previous post when I was responding to Sameer regarding the F1 LM Long short tail GTR's engine prowes (only 600 hp... but I suggested it must be way up in torque over 'factory' 480 ft. lbs... which it is)

Anyway if want to have a buggati why not for go the eb 110 supersport.
That is the ulimate bugatti.

Anyway the ruf ctr2 sport owns them all.

:D :wink:

Until you get all these cars on a track at the same place and time, your speculation as to the best on the track is as good/as bad as anyone else's. You have your own third party sources and negative opinions, we have our sources and positive opinions :roll:

Sadly, there isnt a road test with a F40, VEctor, XJ220 and EB110. Maybe you can organize one for the 0-100?

Got facts to back up your info?

Your "superior" this and that is subjective.
Who the heck talks about the Vector?!

What's the Power to Weight Ratio of both the Enzo and the F1?

Pagani, He did mention the EB 110 SS "SUPER SPORT" :wink:

At the end of the day it's al up to the driver.
:D 8)

First off, by now, I'd think that everybody on JW knows im a performance fanboy of the Vector W8 (not the M12!) :P The vector in fact out corners a F40 via Road and Track figures; and had the highest skidpad ever tested at that time for a production car with ajusted suspension gemoetry (1.25 G skidpad... not just on a road course where that will likely happen at some point)

I did say EB110 SS ;)

And, there is another older ruf which is faster then the CTR... a special slantnose BTR that Alois holds close to his heart :)

and my facts and figures to back up the claims? The videos have been evidence for one, as well as the reviews in them. Laptimes have helped as well, people I know who have driven the cars in question at length, and have even owned/ or do own them currently.

Am I bias? Well, i think the F1 is ugly as sin... but thats subjective ;)

with some of those, that may be possible... EB110's are harder to come by still...

I agree with some others here in that the Vector does not belong in this discussion, since we're are talking about the F1, considered by many to be one of the best engineered performance (from a mechanical engineering standpoint at least) cars in history.

I always find it amazing how people can compare the quality of design (technically, that is, and not just visually) of a car between things like the F1, current Ferrari's, Porsches, etc. with things like modified turbocharged Vipers, Vettes, Supras, Camaros, LTDs, Vectors, etc. They simply aren't in the same ballpark.

If you have had a look at the definitive book on the creation of the F1 'Driving Ambition' by Doug Nye, you begin to understand what I mean...

OK, lets talk about why the Vector W8 does, or doesn't belong... Why do you think it doesn't? I'll answer every question. The fact that the Vector is still faster then 99.9% of the cars out there, and many have huge miles under thier belts... so very many reasons why the W8 belongs at the top of the short list....

why doesn't it?

That article from EVO is very interesting, but somehow trolls left out an important element of the equation: BRITISH PRIDE !

Macca aside,can somebody give a DECENT explanation of the results ?
TAKE A GOOD LOOK at that track, it`s not cramped and twisty to suit the CGT :

According to numerous tests

Enzo has better acceleration
Corners and changes direction better and faster
The braking systems are on the same level
Plus the faster gearbox.

And yet CGT got a better time :alienflip:

Also regarding what`s better, CGT and ENZO, let`s read what Stefan Roser (JA that one from RUF) has to say about :
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/s...t=65897&page=2
Scroll until you reach Hesperus reply

Hehehe

I dont know where you got the whole "corners and changes directions better". In every single roadtest bar one (Top Gear :roll:) where the Carrera GT is pitted against an Enzo - The GT wins. Even in Italian magazines. It does accelerate a spiders dick slower than an Enzo, but golly gosh it handles better.

Tests R&T CGT:
Skidpad : 0.99g
Slalom : 71.1mph
Enzo :1.01g and 73mph slalom.
C&D got 1.05g for Enzo

Stop putting stupid questions,the slalom is one of the best tests to see how fast/well/whatever a car changes direction.
It would be nice to use your brain, to figure out that a lighter car transferrs easily the mass from one side to another.

Quattroporte`s track is EXACTLY cramped and with twistyes where Enzo`s bigger dimenssion is not not an advantage.
It handles better ? 1.17.349 vs 1.17.448. Indeed huge diference.
Maybe you should fucking look at the tyres : Bridgestone Potenza Scuderia RE 050A vs Michelin Pilot Sport 2.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/survey...ay.jsp?type=MP

Danish mag Enzo vs CGT test, winner ENZO.
British mag, ENOZ,CGT, SLR, winner ENZO.

Leaving mags aside, you would look a little bit smarter by only reading Roser`s opinion about those 2 cars. :roll: Moron

As I've mentioned several times before, ams has also tested (print and video) the enzo vs. CGT (and SLR, Murcie, etc.). When they ran it on a track in Italy, it was 1s faster!! There are two credible sources that indicate that the CGT is 1 s faster than the enzo. Now, do you want to talk about NS?