Question about the Enzo
 

Hey
Im kinda new here so hope its ok to post this here. I didnt wanna bring this up in previous topics because most of them seem kinda touchy.
I noticed alot of the Enzo wrecks have shown the car split in half and alot of people seem to think this is somthing thats ment to happen. I Just wanna find out from somone who can confirm if this was a design flaw or if its really made to split up. Please dont reply if your just gonna talk out your ass..Id really like to find out.

the directional forces have a lot to do with specific regidity of a given area.

crashes (not including fender benders/destroyers)
1. Houston, backed into a tree, fire
2. Milan Italy, airborn, sign, ripped in half in the cabin, RIIP
3. Malabu, airborn, telephone pole, split in 1/2 behind the cabin
4. Richard Loosey, 190 mph airborn, flips, disintigrated chassis, but otherwise together
5. Monterey? Enzo crash below 60 mph, fire, and RIIP in one piece
6. Nice France, 60mph -100 mph, fire, in one piece before wreaker truck ( look on ferrari chat on page 5 or 6) not to mention a wet day... perhaps in Race mode?

design flaw?
keep in mind, the MC12 race car is the exact same chassis, just with less ammenties towared comfort ;) those cars are just as safe. It is safe to say driver error is the case with each crash.... although, who knows what happened in the crash in Monterey.
on PHC, stephan ericson
in the 2 cases where the Enzo split in 1/2 during the crash, concider the moment of inertia. when a pole is hit behind the cockpit, it is logical to see it would separate behind iit, and leave the passenger compartement together, particularly with the specific regididty of it reliant on itsel, rather then the semi-steel tubes used behind it alongside the monicoque.

in Milan, the car appears to have hit the sign, it it mid cockpit at 150ish mph, even the specific strenght of the cockpit couldn't save it, and ultimpately , the driver died :(

in Nice, France, the car was in one piece until after the fire...

Well said. :)

I love the car and for that matter the MC12. And to be very honest I only asked because so many people say its ment to split...and to me it just seems a little off.
I should have added have we seen the FXX (yeh I know its not street legal) or one of the MC12's split the same way?

Not to my knowledge.

Was the Losee accident that high of a speed? I heard through the grapevine that seciotn was bad enough to cause havoc at 150.

It seems a little wrong to me that you talk shit.

http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newpho...0115_001.shtml

The chassis is produced by the same company that makes the chassis for Enzo and Veyron.
Now be gentle and STFU moron.








MY NAME IS RAMMIUS I SUCK GIGANTIC COCK

Not yet no :o :x

Yeh, I'll be first on the list to hunt down the first guy who smashes an FXX! :x :snipersmile:

Who said I was talking shit? I love this car so bite me...
Back to the Question at hand....

Lol, maybe he's fed up of the same discussion over and over again? :roll: :D

apperently, Richard was going just a couple mph short of 200 when he realised he had not passed the poor section of road, which other cars slowed to 150 mph, and still felt unstable. I believe he hit the brakes, and drove over the poor section of road, and lost it (ie, got airborn) at about 170-175 mph, rolling somehting like 7 times before coming to a rest.

Rammius, it is you who talk shit.

this JWer asked a legitimate question; I answered it with a legitimate answer; so why dont you just STFU

Yes it is designed as such.
From a materials perspective carbon fiber is chosen as a race car technology not only for its light weight. It also is a great disapator of energy. It is made to disintegrate/shatter on impact absorbing the energy in somewhat of a similar manner to crumple zone. Meanwhile the actual passenger compartment is designed so as to be reinforced to not collapse thus protecting the occupant. Thus you saw a great example in the case of the accident with the guy from tiger with the stolen car. A hit at in excess of 100 mph.. Everything else disintegrates absorbing the hit, but the structure of the passenger compartment is intact. That is the primary goal of race car safety design. To protect the passenger compartment. Everything else is replaceable. There was an interesting video on the same phenomenon with regards to f1 cars and drivers legs a few years ago. I don't remember the title.

Isaac you ordinary bullshitter, taking in consideration what kind of crap you talk about Ferrari`s on Fchat, I suggest you go and shoot yourself fucking moron.

Exactly. . .

Wow - even I that are quick to pounce on people am shocked at the way you have been reacting lately... any particular reason you are being such an arsehole and prick in your responses?

I'm going to talk out my ass. Sorry.

If after a serious accident the passenger cabin is intact, I'm happy. If after a serious accident the passenger cabin is the left over bits stuck on other parts of the car and the seats are lying in the road. I'm an unhappy camper. Unfortunately I have seen too many photos of the F360 in the later condition.

So far the Enzo looks much stronger than the other recent Ferrari cars.

You should be able to buy with confidence. The Richard Loosey crash should give you a good idea of how strong the car is.

I like steel it bends when it hits its yield point rather than shattering.

The loss of the driver and passenger in a CGT that crashed at a race track in California last year, where the passenger cabin was completely intact is more troubling. This may be from the combination of the lack of a HANS device, air bags and wearing helmets. The death of both the driver and the passenger in this accident sill has me troubled as to the cause.

Whats up RAMMIUS?

Your insulting more and more people every time :shock:

Thanks everyone for the replys, sorry the topic made one person here go mental....

contrary to you, I am a stand up guy, who happens to be liked in Fchat.

so, what excactly did I say in Fchat? the McLaren F1 thread? The fact that the recent Enzo crash's driver wasn't a good guy... and perhaps had it coming to him?

I will once again suggest that you be banned; your posts prove you are as incompetant, as much as you are an asshole.

Easy tiger, thats way over the line, play nicely or don't play at all :P

I say ban him.

All in favor say "yay" all opposing say "yay"

RAMMIUS wtf is with you? :shock:

Yay :D

He's really acting weird, Jabba warned him I think thats enough for now, lets see what he says :|

motorworld.net/forum/showthread.php?p=688868&highlight=american#688868

It appears this fellow has anger pent up to multiple groups of people.

One, Engineers
Two, Americans
Three, Corvette people
Four, People who say a Ferrari is less. Less then anything, it seems
Five, People who disagree with him

This isn't the first time this n00b on my Internets has made a ripe steanch in people's virtual mouths; I'm serial!

FXX06, you picked a nice abitar.

Hang in there. You'll get to 25 post quick enough. They dont have to be really serious posts. "nice pictures" works just fine.(if its a picture) Just dont do what I did and post 1, 2, 3 etc. under jokes. No one found it funny. Fortunately, Jabba didn't ban me.

So where do you find out how to do animation on the abitar? And I still haven't figured out how to quote just part of a post.

Rammius he asked a simple question what the fucks ur problem

Great heads up - I must have missed the details his rant's in that thread..

it would seem that he has been a pure arsehole for at least the last 4 months.

Perhaps he does need a cooling off period to get back in line.

oops, double posted. :oops:

great, can he be banned now? PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE?

While I did create the Internets, I have not yet learned to control it. I'm serial!

Really, well what I`ve said here

http://www.motorworld.net/forum/show...r=asc&start=20

in 2 reply`s was the same with Mr. graywolf`s reply in this topic, so graywolf 624 is incompetent too ?

That`s because `ive corrected your replies a few times in the past and somehow you didn`t like that.


He read the thread about the Black Enzo crash and he insulted me directly by saying that i`am talking out of my ass, about Enzo`s chassis design, that brakes in 2 in case of accident.
If i remember correctly, and I do I was the only one to sustain that it was designed to brake apart apart in order to protect.
My insult was a result of his action, but then nth felt that it was necesarry to insult me, don`t know the reason.
Maybe he didn`t read the thread about the Enzo crash, maybe he didn`t make the connection about the first reply in this topic and whom it was adressed to. don`t know and it doesnt matter.

Dude if I thought you were talking out your ass... I would have said so... I didnt even read that thread I only saw the pics... You need to chill out... When I made that comment about talking out your ass it wasnt aimed at anyone. I said it cause I wanted a honest response and not some 12 year old telling me how this car works...

O yeh Philip I have no clue where I found that avatar. I saw it on a site some time ago and saved it just incase. Thanks 8)

Sorry about the drama mods and admin.

funny, how you can talk about people insulting you by saying you were "talking out of your ass" about chassis design, when, in just one post, you call ViperASR a 1). stupid imbecil, 2). an idiot, 3). a dipshit, and 4). a moron for presenting his opinion.

For those who need proof, http://www.motorworld.net/forum/show...r=asc&start=20

i cannot STAND to see an asshole like you on the internet demeaning somebody who you DON'T EVEN KNOW. did your mother hug you enough as a ittle boy, RAMMIUS? honestly, i can think of quite a few things that are better then insulting somebody when unprovoked online, but i guess you can't. oh well.


oh, and btw, your an asshole. i'm not trying to be mean, but i thought you should know. :roll:

likewise

@RAMMIUS - so fucking what? it gives you no fucking right to insult people here! grow the fuck up! :roll:

Yep! :roll:

I actually forgot about that. Im in favor of banning. The personal attacks at me were unprovoked and meaningless. :argue:

@Rommius-dude, your 26, learn how to chill out a bit or you will never survive in the real world when someone disagrees with you, or even expresses their opinion. Chill out dude.

Actually, it does matter. You are attacking somebody again and again w/out provocation. You take simple questions, and opinions as a personal attack against you for some reason.. yet you prove you don't know any more then the next JW member... I would argue a great deal of members here know more then you. I for one designed a carbon fibre reinforced aluminum monicoque in 2003 at WMU; so I think that qualifies me as something more then the accused "wanabe" What chassis have you designed? What technical papers have you even read?

am I insulting when I say that you prove you are incompetant? refer to many of your posts. They in fact, do prove you are nothing more then a very angry fanboy. I hope you never sit in a Ferrari, as the Ferrari would shudder from your aura of idiocracy. I will defend another JW member when I feel he is being wronged, and this is ANOTHER case of you doing just that, and others defending the guy you call "Dipshit", or other derogotory remarks.

Also, You still haven't mentioned "what i said at Fchat" have you, incompetant asshole fanboy? I'm curious as to what kind of comment you can constrew as being deserving of your idiocratic wrath. LOL

How come you can't find flaws in a Ferrari... or other hyper exotics for that matter, you are living in a dream world. There is a school of thought in Engineering that states something to the nature of this... "Learn to expect the unexpected in real world testing" The splitting action of the Enzo is an example of this.. Bare in mind, not one of the crash tested Enzo's had split like this.

Even another step beyond this, Why the hell are you attacking so many people again and again. You are an asshole, incompetant, and an over-the-top fanboy; nothing more.

I would argue he is just as touchy as always, and I may be able to argue quite successfully.

It is people like this Rammius character who ruin my Internets.

Mr.Gore, took some spam pill lately?

No he just had this for dinner

http://blog.koehntopp.de/uploads/20040203-spam.jpg :wink:

oh that would explain he's compulsion to spam the same crap all over again in all of the treads he's in 8)

*sniff* *sniff* smells like buttgirls sister or its just me?

How about you shut the fuck up before I make you stop posting in this section all together?

Ok cabron? Move along.

I read that in order for me to post links, I read I must spam; even I, Al Fucking Gore, have to adhear to the same rules as everyone else.

To stay "on topic" The Enzo is designed to be exotic, and it even crashes in an exotic way.

Who told you that??? LOL isnt it better to get involved in JW's forum's life and have valuable discussion in the threads than senceless spamming? + spam is still bannable outside the Spammers Corner if I am not wrong according to the rules.

Sorry for OT again :oops:

I have NO education whatsoever in car construction but from my point of view the car should stay in one piece to absorbe energy etc what safety can add you smashing into something with back your seats cause theres nothing behind your seats :shock:

Do not question me! If you feel inclined to do so, then get off my Internets n00b!

from a simple phisics standpoint, lets assume that car A has some mass.

Car A is then split in two in an accident at speed, thus becoming Car A , and Car Aa

Car A has the occupants

Car Aa has a greater portion of the mass, IE, Engine, Transaxle, fuel.

Car Aa will have greater Momentum, even when traveling at the same speed as Car A; remember, Momentum is Mass x Velocity.

With Car A (occupants) having less mass, it requires less forces (under no grip circomstances) to come to a halt; thus disipating some of the impact... less momentum = less force to stop the car = less injury in the saftey cage.

One of the saftey components of Carbon Fibre is its unique ability of absorbing impact, if taken at the proper direction, IE, headon; as it literally disapaits the energy in a constant mannor; rather then a strictly abrupt stop, or change in direction; which could more easily kill the occupants depending on the G load.

That said, there are tollerances which an are not specifically designed for; such as a 200 mph crash into a telephone pole; this is where the real world becomes the labratory.. but sure, a computer model can help come close to modeling such instances with finite element analysis

didnt think of that, thanx for explanation Nth :) they just need to pray noone crash in them or they crash in something from the back side of Car A cause it would be instant death.

What is difficult for car designers to design around is a tree or pole hit at high speed. The entire energy of the collision is focused on a very small area. It acts like a knife shearing the car apart. If the car can bounce off due to angle of attack or rigidity of the area hit all the better, however if the tree or pole can dig in, the dividing process begins untill the car is in two pieces or untill it reaches something something more substantial.

Had the Malibu Enzo hit the pole a foot further forward the out come probably would have been completely different for the occupants.

There is a photo on the internet of a boxter wreck where a tree or pole was hit at high speed head on. Since it was a boxter it probably was at a slower speed than these Enzo crashes since the Enzo can accelerate so quickly. The tree parted the car through the middel all the way to the engine. (seats laying on the ground again) The doors were still attached but were under the car flat against the ground. The car was not even recognizeable. The steering wheel with deployed air bag did not even stay with the car.

I have assumed many of the tragic deaths we read about in WRC racing were due to trees. I'm not sure exactly of the quote, but a driver was asked if they watch out for the spectators, he said no they watch out for trees.