Veyron beat 400 km/hour
 

Ehra-Lessien > veyron goes 405-407 under eyes of TUV
Ehra lessine is VW oficial test track 20 km long

i cant find link in english

czech > http://4men.cz/index.php4?page=clanek&cid=686

http://www.bugattipage.com/#News :wink:

It will be interesting to see if Koenigsegg can react on this.... I spoke with them at the Geneva salon ( christian's father and a salesman) and the father told me that the car still has some reserve ( " 400km/h should be possible easy with better weather conditions") ...

May the force be with them :D

mclaren record ride was on Ehra -Lessien i think

It's an amazing car, can't wait to see a televised review!

LOl...first we had the McLaren beating and holding on to the record for 10 years. Then the tuned Porsche held it for a month or so, then the Koenigsegg. And now this...and I don't see any new car on the horizon which would be capable of cracking the 400km/h barrier.

Specialists claim that the Vmax of a car on a straight is only up to 5 km/h faster than on the Nardo test circuit.

I don't think it'll be official until they sell a car, since it's technically not a production car yet. Have all of the cars been accounted for or are they still trying to sell? Either way this is good for the Veyron since too many people (especially in JW) doubted the beast. :wink:

I am sure it will be a great car. Can't wait to read reports in the magazines :D

I thought this was strictly production cars were talking? If not the fastest streetlegal car that im aware of was that 1988 Corvette sledgehammer at 254.7mph/409.9kmh

I am glad to see it has beaten the koenigsegg's record. Hopefully it will urge other manufacturers to step up and try and beat it. A top Speed war would be great!

Well, if that's the case, then I believe that the Gemballa Diablo Lotec held the record at some 410km/h.

Damn thats quite fast :lol:
But i wanted the Koenigsegg to be the fastest cause its a smaller and therefore not as rich as Volkswagen (owner of Bugatti), so they could be proud of a record such as top speed.

Volks is well know, they didn´t need this.

Anyways gratz to Bugatti and Volks.

I heard that the Veyron cracked the speed record while trying to run away from a corner...

Often you hear people say: 'what's the use of a car that can do over 120 km/h. You're not allowed to go faster?'. We all know this is bullshit. :roll:

But I ask you: 'what's the use of a car capable of over 400 km/h, when there's only two tracks in the world (and some salty desert) where you can reach that speed (if the conditions are ok?' :(

These places are miles away from where I live, so I'd rather have a car that is agile, takes corners quickly and accelerates fast. :fist:

Will the Veyron be able to perform on a track with turns? (400 km/h in straight line, 50km/h in the turn... :wink:

The Veyron is not a sports/track car, it is a GT.
So who cares about track performance?

:lol:

Interesting development, hopefully they'll release a vid of it...:twisted:

I guess it's just the idea that it is actually possible. Volkswagen have made a big deal about this, even holding out for their special Bridgestones which are rated for 400 km/h.

I mean, in the real world, people don't often go from 0-60, shifting at the red line, nor they run standing quarters. Just imagine, you pull up to some parking lot, and you have a veyron, and you know you have the fastest car there ;)


Oh and I think the porsche was a contender for that record because it wasn't a one-off. 9ff do actually build and sell that porsche that held the record

Oh snap! This is huge news! I've been so mired in exams the past few weeks i've not kept up w/ any car news....this is big stuff!

Wow, first: congrats to Bugatti - that's a really tremendous accomplishment, even if it's been far too long in gestation. i've yet to see any other info confirming it, but going on the comments posted so far, that'll be good enuf for now.

Secondly: Koenigsegg really needs to get themselves on that 20km straight. It'll be interesting to see how the theoretical physics play out if/when the CCR goes for the record again.

After so long, we're seeing the renaissance in top speed....As impractical as it is, I definitely would welcome such an intercompany war. Push the physics and engineering!

That is until you look over and see a Callaway Sledgehammer parked next to you and you just put your head down and cry. THen to the right of you is a LPE Vette and you cry some more. :twisted:

This speed record is done with a bone stock production model right?

I don't understand your comprehension towards the handling of the car, and yes i understand that the pre-production models were having trouble, but do you honestly think VW would release a car that didn't raise the standards in every catorgory?

It did 400km+ and in reality the point is to show off the power of the car, accelleration does matter on a track too!! It sucks that we'll have to wait for the official reviews but i'm being optimistic since it took sooo dam long for them to get it on the road.

Weel I'll eat my words I didn't think it would crack 400 but around a race track no contest just about anything would beat the Veyron

You think the Veyron is going to raise the standards in handling? Braking? 'Feel'? :roll:

That depends on the track layout mate. If there are lots of straights, it should post a decent time, but take it to somewhere like Anglesey (where 5th Gear tests) and that 1 million Euro car will be beaten - actually, humiliated - by a £30,000 Lotus Exige.

Which is why, to most enthusiasts, the McLaren F1 is still the daddy. It was blisteringly agile, thanks to it's small size and lightness (same footprint as a Porsche (996) 911, but weighs far less), and the immense power it had sitting in the middle.

The Veyron is the ultimate poser GT. Nothing else.

You Sir, are a genius.

edit: sweet, didn't even notice you're nick was actually Sir

I was merely stating the truth. :)


Seriously speaking, top speed really means nothing if you're only capable of doing only that. I was just reading this month's EVO, and they had an article discussing the land speed record, which was (an average of) 763++ miles per hour.

7 6 3 M P H

Apparently, it went so quickly that when it broke the sound barrier, the sonic boom knocked off the roof tiles from a school which was a few miles away.

...and to think, the pilot said he had to "lay on some opposite lock" some 600+ MPH down the road because he realized he was off course.

Imagine that... 600+ mph and the fucker was STEERING.

Now we go back to this Veyron thingy which did 400 kph, will cost 1 million Euros, and will look like an overweight Phaeton when it's run against a Lotus Exige on Anglesey.

This whole top speed thing is seriously overblown bullshit already. Why can't these companies come up with something really original, which would set a new standard (to something other than going in a straight line) for years to come?

Sorry VW. Not impressed.

Are you basing your ideas of it being a bad handling car just because it's heavy? Thats crap and you know it, you as an M6 fan should realize dispite weight a car can surprisingly handle with the best of them...and the power of the Veyron just makes it even better. I've never said top speed matters but it's just a reflection of the power of the car and the stability it has to have the ability to reach those speeds dispite it's weight. I love the Exige but this will no doubt take a lotus around Anglesey, thats just common sense.

Here's my question...

How do any of you know how the Veyron will handle? It hasn't been tested by anyone other than bugatti. I know it's heavy for a supercar, but I'm sure they can come up with something to make for some good handling for the price tag of this thing.

I just hope the next McLaren beats the crap out of the overweight POS.

You could say the same about a Koenigsegg - it isnt the best handler and only leads its class in the top speed category, which it doesnt now...

I guess people just jump on the 'Seggs wagon because they are a small company and people dont want to see VW succeed in their revival of Bugatti.

Why do people complain about the wight of the Veyron, yet not about teh weight of the SL55 AMG? The SL is a great drive, wonderful power and hugely fast. I loved it.

Consider that the Veyron is the same weight as the SL55 AMG, so basically if you add 4wd and 500hp it's not likely to be any slower..?

I'm basing my ideas on physics. It's just common sense as you said. There's no way an M6 will outhandle an Exige around Anglesey. In fact, if I owned an M6, I would steer clear of places like Anglesey, and other B-roads where there are rarely any straights. The last thing I would want is to make my £80,000 car look silly because I'm being destroyed by cars that don't even crack the £35,000 price barrier. The boffins at Top Gear Magazine, EVO, and CAR will all attest to this. They took a Porsche Carrera S to the official launch of the M6. The 911 had considerably less power than the M6, but it was much lighter. The result was that the M6 would leave the 911 for dead on the straights, but when the corners came, the M6 couldn't shake, or sometimes even match, the 911.

On a place like Anglesey where there are no straights (hell, any British B-road would do), it is easy to see which cars have struck the right balance of power and handling, and which ones disguise their inadequacies by being quick in a straight line.

Also, straight line speed is never a way to measure a car's stability or ability. You're from a drag-racing-loving nation. You should know that.

I'm not jumping on anybody's band wagon. In fact, I wasn't impressed by Koenigsegg either.

A Carrera GT, which is a £300,000+, carbon fibre-bodied supercar, can crack 205 mph.

A BMW M5, which is a £68,000, 4-door luxury sports saloon, can crack 207.

Which one do you think is more impressive? The Sports car that doesn't really push any boundaries? or the 4-door luxury saloon (which has a DVD player) that can out gun the former at the top end?


A few decades ago (1930's I think), two German racers who used to blast down the Autobahn in Germany thought about setting a speed record - the fastest anybody could go on a public road. They did, and since then, nobody has beaten that record.

The record was 261 mph. They did it in a Mercedes.

I'll repeat that:

2-6-1 MILES PER HOUR. IN THE 1930'S. ON A PUBLIC ROAD.

So I'm supposed to be impressed by the Bugatti? A car which, nearly a century later, is slower?

Spare me.


It's all just marketing doo-dah. The Veyron doesn't push any envelopes, nor does it set any new standards. It's just front page tabloid news.

Please don't tell me it boils down to top speed. The M5 is a great car, but more impressive than a CGT because it has a 1 or 2 mph higher top speed??? :shock:

I've love to see what an M5 handles like at 180mph. The CGT has a Cd of 0.39, trading top speed for downforce and high speed stability. And rightly so. It's been praised as possibly the best supercar ever produced, thanks to Porsche's aim to produce a pure, race-car-like road car. If they'd gone for a more slippery body, sure, the CGT would crack 230mph and grab a few headlines, but it certainly wouldn't be a better car.

BMW development drivers have lapped the Ring right around the 8:00 mark in the M6. Which would leave an Exige wondering where it went ;) So unless you are talking about extremely twisty roads where average speeds at flat out are less than 100kph, I would be very cautious about taking on an M5 or an M6.

Oh, and another ting - the CCR isn't a great handler? Compared to what? An Audi R8? The owner of one retinahurtingly yellow CCR in my home town claims it is extremely easy to drive and easily the fastest car he's driven. Which is something coming from a man who's driven all the cars we dream about and finaly bought a Koenigsegg. (BTW he has a 2005 M5 as dailiy driver - "best four-door on the planet!" ;))

Correction!! that is the only offical speed on a public road, there are several folks who have gps pics clocked at 250+ in corvettes. There is a guy on the z06 forum who claims to have gone 263 mph on the greenstate parkway in newjersey.

I think I'll break down my responses...

• No, it doesn't boil down to top speed, not at all. That's not what I'm saying.
  
  What I'm trying to point out is that ever since the Macca, there hasn't been any real big change or pioneering effort in the supercar area of the market. We all have nice, lovely, quick, and expensive two-seaters, which are at the end of the day, simply playing a game of top trumps.
  
  Remember what Gordon Murray's goal was for the Macca? A true, everyday usable supercar?
  
  We ended up with a car which was small enough to park anywhere, sat three people, had a boot (or a pair of them, if you're a stickler for detail), was built entirely out of carbon fibre, had no electronic aids to "nanny" the driver, and did an unbelievable naught-to-sixty, and an even more unbelievable top speed.
  
  That was how long ago? Why haven't these companies gone that step further and took what he started with the Macca and ran with it? Instead, they've all become slower, fatter, less spacious, more uncomfortable, and impractical for daily use and too difficult to live with.
  
  All I'm saying is that top speed means nothing. Nobody's really pushing the envelope for supercars... they're all just chasing each other's tail.
  
  If anything, rent Clarkson's video (I think it's called hot metal) and hopefully he can explain it better than I can. For once, I agree with him.
  
• The nurburgring has unbelievably long straights. It is a very good way to gauge a car's "overall" ability, but with that in mind, know that a car that does horribly on the ring's corners can (if the power is there) make that up during the straights... especially the very very long one that heads towards the finish line, thus masking certain inadequacies it may have.
  
• I never said anything about the CCR being difficult to handle. I merely said I wasn't impressed.
  
• If somebody cracked 263 mph in Corvettes, then it goes to show how silly the Veyron is starting to sound eh?

Ah well. I fear my ability to explain would be inadequate to get my message across.

If anybody will understand why I'm more impressed by a 4-door, family saloon, with a DVD player (front and back), going 207mph, compared to a 2-seat, sometimes no radio, 190mph exoticar... then maybe he or she will be able to communicate it better. :|

I do see what you're trying to get at. Regarding the F1, I agree with you on a few points. Yes, no one has built a no-expense-spared hypercar since. Yes, it has monstrous acceleration and a terrifying top speed. In that respect it is unmatched by any of the new breed of hypercars (except the CCR). But the McLaren was not without fault. I wish i could speak from experience, but i can't. Common criticisms are aimed at steering, braking feel, and finally, due to its fairly low Cd of 0.32, stability at high speed. Andy Wallace himself describes the Zonda S as being much more stable than the F1 at high speed.

Ferrari and Porsche didn't 'hold back', as Clarkson claims. They prioritised. And i'd much rather have a car with lots of downforce, and that is highly stable at high speed than one which has a higher top speed. Just have a look at these figures and compare the CGT & Enzo to the F1. And i wonder why the CCR is so bloody fast:

Cd figures
Koenigsegg CCR: 0.30
McLaren F1: 0.32
Ferrari Enzo: 0.36
McLaren Mercedes SLR: 0.37
Porsche Carrera GT: 0.39

Pagani Zonda F: ??


No TC on the F1? You can switch it off in the new cars. Usability? You can drive an Enzo day to day. Ok, so none of the new cars have 3 seats, and i don't know which (if any) has decent boot space. Frankly, i'm not that fussed. If you are, buy an SLR.

I think the Enzo and CGT have moved the supercar game on, each in their own way. They haven't smashed any records (well, we'll get to that in a second), which makes it seem like they haven't really done anything new, but the Ferrari truly is a technological tour de force (isn't that tag usually reserved for Porsche's), while the CGT is about as close to a race car for the road as you're going to get. Which is how it obliterated the Nurburging record. And is often referred to as the best of its kind - ever.


And finally. Don't get me wrong. I'm a BMW nut so i love the M5. But i won't go weak at the knees because it can go over 200mph. It has a lot of power and an aerodynamic shape. Those are the key ingredients, and it has both. Don't we take the piss out of Corvettes on this side of the pond for being straight line animals (at least we used to!). I'd much rather know how the M5 handles. From experience, the E34 M5 was more communicative than the E39. What i want to feel in the new M5 is that some of that agility has been restored. That's really what it comes down to for me and is the key factor when assessing a car :)

Ignore this post :oops:

I agree, let's not succumb to "Contempt prior to investigation"

I've never heard anyone complain about the F1's steering. I've heard people complain about brakes, but not feel - more on brake fade when used on tracks - the F1 isn't a track car it is a pure road car. CD's don't tell you anything without any extra information.

The F1 didn't try to get a 240mph top speed, in fact they were planning on using a lower powered engine but BMW came back from the workshop with more power than expected. Top speed was always almost a last priority on the macca, it was merely a bi-product of the rest of the attributes that Gordon Murray wanted to get from it.

I.e a drivers car that you could use everday - lightweight, manual, small.

I'm in anyway bringing down current supercars, they are all amazing in their own right.

But most are far to wide and tightly strung to be an everyday road car.

Sure they all have things going for them, but none of them has the complete package that is the F1.

If you take the macca F1 and the Ferrari F40 as a pair - the F40 being a better track car; then considering its been over 10 for the F1 and over 15 years since the F40, then the current crop haven't moved the game on half as far as these two did.

I believe the stability complaints you were mentioning occured at 210-220MPH. for some reason the way the air flows over the car upsets the rear of the car in that speed range. They were never able to figure out what though AFAIK.

Heavy steering and wooden brakes is something i've read /heard many times regarding the F1.

As for the Cd not meaning anything, i remember reading an article where Gordon Murray estimated the Cd Koenigsegg would have to achieve if it were to reach a certain top speed with a certain amount of power. So i think that it does tell you something, if not everything...

I know Murray wasn't going for top speed, but given that the car achieved the magic 240mph mark (at the expense of stability), the newcomers' inability to approach these speeds is perceived as a failure to 'move the game on'. Which i think is wrong.

The only thing in the F1 which i wish the current crop of hypercars would replicate is the weight, or lack of it i suppose. But then it did cost a fuck of a lot more.

Can't say i've heard that.

Yes you can work out theoretical top speed with it but it doesen't tell you anything about how it will handle. For example, the same cd for one car could mean it just produces a lot of drag, for another with the same cd it could mean a lot of downforce. Eg. a BMW X5 has a cd of 0.38... does that mean it produces more downforce than most supercars? ;)

I wasn't getting at that - but alot of people think the macca is just a pure top speed car but its infact the complete opposite of that. It has more relation to a Lotus Elise than most other supercars.

I'm not saying the newer supercars are bad cars (see my sig ;)) but taking into account age - there's nothing that can compare to the macca F1. Not only weight is a big issue in new supercars, but size and lack of a manual for me is too

I didn't say anything about handling, only stability. And since we are comparing cars which will have roughly the same frontal area, the Cd will give an indication of which ones have more or less downforce, no?

Well aware of that and it isn't something i deny ;)

If you exclude the SLR, which is huge and automatic, the CGT and Zonda both have manual transmissions, and the dimensions aren't that much bigger. The CGT is longer by 10 inches and wider by 4, with almost identical wheelbase. Not exactly a giant ;)

I believe the Veyron is a bold concept, the last time someone tried to push the boundries like this was when Gordan Murry decided to build the Mclaren. The F1 was never a successful venture, financially that is, and I somehow doubt the veyron would turn out to be a profitable project either. I'm chuffed that Bugatti decided to take on the project, regardless of what people think of the car it sure has got people talking...

Pushing 400 km/h would surely have to be run on a flat surface, on a bowl track I'm sure the tyres would explode. I wonder how much room it would need to get up to 400km/h or even better in how many seconds!

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/bugatti.htm

Just in case no-ones seen it yet, a breakdown of how the bugatti works...
Basic, but still interesting! :)

The Michelines on the Veyron will deffinately not explode on bowl track, they invested a lot of time and money on the tires made specifically for the car. If you want a dam track car buy a Veyron and gut it, :lol: . Or just buy an Exige and do a engine swap which is already bare-minimum. On the handling issue, the Murciolago had a faster lap time on Anglesey than the Exige, and that a product of VW with less hp and the same AWD. And the Veyron is going to have DSG which right now is the best tranny you can have on a street car, and it'll have a little less than twice the horsepower.

I think I'll start lusting after supercars again only until I finally see one with driver-adjustable aerodynamics and at least 5 different, pre-selected, driver-adjustable suspension settings, so that the car can be prepared to take a different corner properly each time.

Hopefully that car will also sit between 3-4 people, have some luggage space (enough for a gym bag would do), hit 0-60 in about 4 seconds, and top out at 250 mph. Maybe even return a respectable 24mpg.



Until then, everything else is just tabloid doo-dah. Sorry.