Opel Signum 3.0 V6 CDTI for 5 days
 

So, do you remember dani's topic about Opel's Milion mile free testdrive? I asked for a Signum and a Signum I got.. but a bloody diesel!! Argh! A friend of mine got a Vectra GTS (3.2 V6), and I get the 3.0 V6 CDTI! :bah: At least it is the most powerfull diesel option ;)

And I got it for way more than 3 days:

http://www.flytrap.it/public/ttsib/signum01.jpg

Sadly for various reasons, I'm gonna take it back already tomorrow (anyway I used already all the 1000 km included in the package ;))...

The pics:
http://img169.exs.cx/img169/1433/signum090gb.th.jpg http://img172.exs.cx/img172/943/signum023dw.th.jpg http://img112.exs.cx/img112/7702/signum035lj.th.jpg http://img112.exs.cx/img112/6358/signum040qe.th.jpg
http://img112.exs.cx/img112/8141/signum058uv.th.jpg http://img8.exs.cx/img8/5614/signum064bq.th.jpg http://img8.exs.cx/img8/2306/signum072et.th.jpg http://img64.exs.cx/img64/1721/signum084gq.th.jpg

Impressions:

Do you remember Jeremy's review? Well he was kind! The car is worst than you could expect!! Build quality.. terrible. Worst than a Vectra! My 10 years old BM is still better IMO! Ergonomically it isn't good, the seats aren't supportive and on long travel, not comfy at all.. I guess even worst for ppl taller or bigger than me! the gear stick has is heavy, in a bad way and no precise, the steering is too assisted and vague, the clutch difficult to judge and easy to stall despite the bazillion Nm of couple the damn engine got!
the travel assistang between the rear seats?!?!? A fucking JOKE! badly built, dodgy, nothing seems to work proprely! There was no cable to connect the little fridge, I wonder why they gave the car with this thing inside it! The litte tables that come out of it are then impossible to be put back in if not in 15 minutes.. the assistant wasn't even fixed into the seat, I had to drive 400 km to go to my parents with the thing moving around.. I finally found an Opel dealership there and two guys, a mechanic and a salesman needed 10 minutes to deal with it :roll:

Now, the engine. Like most of us, I asbolutely hate diesels! I am lucky to live in a country where they are kinda rare, but their quota is rasing :bah:
Anyway, diesel engine, even 2005 ones, are utter CRAP! People buy them because they want to save money on fuel, PERIOD! if somebody tries to tell you a diesel engine isn't so bad, he is lying! NOBODY can like a diesel engine! I don't want to sound dumb or naif, but definitely, the only positive feature a diesel engine has is the fact even a big 3 liters one can average 7 liters / 100 even if driven like you drive a rental car for 1000 km. Nothing else. It is still noisy (I know BMW and Merc ones are better, but still crap), it smells like shit, it vibrates, its powerband is still short.
The bottom line, as somebody else said on another forum is that the diesel engine is a very simple and old concept.. ppl always attack american V8 saying they are simple engines and not modern at all.. well, the diesel engine is worst.. the fact is that the car industry, to make all the ppl wanting to save on fuel happy, invested billions to develop it and try to hide all it's downsides, trying to make it seem like a petrol unit. Wasted money and time! If the same amount of money would have been invested in petrol engines, by now your regular hot hatch would easily cruise at 350 km/h, using of course 1 liter every 100 km!

no shit, the diesel engine is the worst thing happened in the car industry history! Don't be fooled, NEVER buy one!

As for the Signum, the V6 CDTI goes for around 50'000 CHF or 40'000 USD (you can do the maths on www.xe.com for your currency).. and noway it is worth that money!!

Anyway it was a fun testdrive, around 1000 km my car could avoid and despite all the downsides, on the highway it is an acceptable car and it can managed overtaking pretty well...

I am so happy to be back at the wheel of my 320i from tomorrow on!!

Hehe :lol: not a very positive review LOL Havent thought that its SO bad 8)

If the other participants have the same impression, this event won't help Opel's sales much, will it ? :)

Here in Czech rep. it starts on 1st April and there will be 100 cars available in total. Sadly no Signums or even Vectras. :| The list includes Corsa 1.2 Enjoy, Astra 1.6 Elegance, Meriva 1.6 Enjoy and ComboTour 1.3 CDTI.

Gonna apply in May, after my graduation exam.

I must say i am suprised :shock: .

Since OPEL stopped producing the Omega, i expected the Signum to be a good car. Opel really need to work harder if they are going to compete with their fellow Germans...

Is it really THAT bad, the steering feedback on the Omega was pretty good.

The interior materials in the Vectra are sensibly better IMO.. for the console, levers and so on.. they are different as far as I can see.

Hard plastic everywhere.. so simple yet not "pure".

And anyway sadly also the Vectra isn't really good in my opinion.

As for the interior volumes, VERY good for sure, but if you want a good car to travel on the back seat, you definitely won't buy an Opel IMO.. so it's just pointless. The scene where Jeremy tried to drive from the back seat came to mind several times :D

Also interesting to see how here they only used the biggest engines to try and lure ppl into buying an Opel :D Vectra GTS, Signum 3.0 CDTI.. even the Meriva was presented in 1.7 diesel form!

Hahaha

I see you had a "good" time :wink:

A cool review. Defenetly different :wink:

I also dislike diesels very much, but not to the extent you do :lol: :lol:

I still want Opel as a company in general to make it again......they bossted their sales recently and their newest cars look quite ok actually.

It looks like they have alot of work to do still......

And that white colour doesn't fit the car at all.

Thx for the review...

Is it just me, or do you all get the impression that Tt isnt a great fan of diesels?

What has gone wrong with vauxhall/opel's attempts at big cars?

We still have a Vauxhall senator in the garage, which at its time was a great car, and in may ways still is. Despite now being over 15yrs old, it could still cut it in some areas with the modern cars today. 3.0 24v V6 good for 150mph. Electronically adjustable suspension, air con, electric windows all round, sunroof and mirrors, CD player etc etc.

That spec list wouldnt loook out of place on a £40/50k BM or Merc! But above all, the thing is built like a brick shit-house. Even after 15yrs everything is still solid and working on it! and its done well over 120,000 miles!

And now, vauxhall cant even make a mini-fridge work!

LOL I think the fridge would work if only they would give you the cable to connect it too :roll:

I'm gonna try to Test-Drive an Opel too. But it starts only in April 15 here.

I didn't knew we can only have the car for 1000km, but that's enough for me :D Too bad the car has a lot of stickers in it. Everybody's gonna know that the car isn't mine :roll: :mrgreen:

Anyway, This Opel Signum is kinda rare here in Portugal. I like it, but it looks like a Vectra with a bigger boot :roll: And although I like Diesel engines ( maybe because they're common here ) this one should be more powerfull. They should put another turbo in it :mrgreen: like the Vectra OPC with 212bhp in a 1.9L engine :P

Thx for the review TT, I'm suprise you really disliked it that much!

I can understand you didn't like the 3.0 engine. Me & my dad had a testdrive with a Saab 9-5 with the same engine, a couple of weeks back. And we weren't really impressed either. It has lots of torque but the response to the gas pedal is really really slow. I think you should testdrive the new 2.0TDi from VW, you should think differently about diesels after that!

My dad has an Omega and although you can hardly compare it to an A6, it still is a nice car. For thar price you couldn't find such a big, comfortable car anywhere. My dad allready has had 2 omega's, with which he did over 160.000km without any rattles or annoying noises...

haha.....even if you dislike it, at least you get to test a different car for nothing - I would love to do that and spare my car for 1000km :D
As for diesels, I have not driven one yet so I can't judge - but going by your words I am lucky that I haven't :P

Well, so far I liked 3 diesels.

The best one so far imo was the 3.0l 218 hp in the BMW 530d. The engine didn't feel "diesel'ish" at all..... even the sound was cool....

The second one I liked very much was the 4.0 in the A8. 275hp. I liked it because of it's raw power.....driving that car with that engine made you think you're the king of the world....al the torque you would want and you could still move a mountain with the rest....

And the third one, don't even know why exactly....... :? was the one in the Alfa GT. I think the excellent chassis made up for the not so exciting engine and at some points I totally forgot I was driving a diesel.....

There's nothing wrong with diesels, the torque is great, they don't sound as bad as they used to, they DON'T vibrate, don't smell anymore and for commuting it's the perfect engine. Drive a BMW 330d and talk again. The PSA HDI, ditto. Diesel drivetrains are perfect for 95% of the people.

The fact that this Signum might be a bad example, doesn't mean every diesel engine sucks. The only application diesels are less suited for are the very sportive drivers, who misses the wider power band and the slightly worse throttle response. LOL, check the specs for the new E90 3-series:

BMW 320i (Petrol)

Engine size: 2-litre
Power: 110 kW at 6 200 r/min
Torque: 200 Nm at 3 600 r/min
0-100 km/h: 9.0 seconds
Top speed: 220 km/h
Fuel consumption (EU combined cycle): 7.4 litres/100km

BMW 320d (diesel)

Engine size: 2-litre
Power: 120 kW
Torque: 340 Nm at 2 000 r/min
0-100 km/h: 8.3 seconds
Top speed: 225 km/h
Fuel consumption (EU combined cycle): 5.7 litres/100km

Todays diesels can match their petrol counterparts.

With all due respect TT,

This part sounds like it was written by a 6 year old being as uninformed as they come. Opinion is all fine, but most of what has been written here is BS. The last two paragraphs are downright hilarious. Petrol engines will never ever reach the same level of efficiency as diesel engines. Petrol engines have more than a 30 year lead in development time, you're simply not realistic.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specia...8/article.html

With all respect Lotus... pull your head out of your arse and enjoy what TT wrote for what it was a- a review.

His journalistic style was fun and refreshing - and probably spot on.

I just realised that the new Chevy Malibu Maxx is the US version of the car TT drove.... a larger, uglier version of the Cobalt.

Amusing review TT, but i just cant agree on the sweeping remark that all diesels are shite.
Beemer audi, VW and Merc diesels are some of the most impressive engines i think ive ever seen.
But enough said. :wink:

With all due respect RC (wait, who am I kidding), when your opinion is based on facts that are false, your opinion is worth exactly nothing. That has absolutely shit to do with his journalistic style.

Ah wait, that means Clarksons Top Gear review on the Corvette C6 you whined about is just the same. Otherwise, please enlighten me where exactly the differences are. LOL, just another fun and refreshing review....*sigh*

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3.../ali-owned.jpg[/url]

/\ :rofl: hahhaa UNLUCKY!

same here!

That 3.0 is probably not the best example to start with. As I said before me & my dad testdrove one and it has lot's of torque but reacts very slowly in the 9-5.

Well, I have to agree with TT to a certain extent. And I can also imagine why he sort of lost his temper. After the times that I have been driving an Opel (diesel or not) I felt the exact same way. Rage. Pure and unbridled rage. I can't pinpoint one aspect of Opels that ticks me off like that, but I suspect it's the omnipresent crappiness combined. The ones I drove really failed to do anything right.

Now about diesels. TT might have gone a little bit overboard from an objective point of view, but I support the thoughts that lie at the heart of his opinion. I don't like diesels either. Sure, they've seen a massive development in the last decade, but IMO they're still no match to petrol engines. To 90% of the people they might be, but that has more to do with the general disinterest, laziness, lack of driving ability and the wallet ruling over the mind than with the engine itself. The attitude of the general public is "use right pedal to go faster, use middle pedal to slow down, try avoiding the use of the pedal on the left and, whatever you do, don't rev it over 4,000 rpm or it will blow". Solution: diesel. That is fine with me, but I want more from a car.

Have you ever tried tackling a long sweeping bend with a diesel powered car? It's frustrating. Shift down to third, use throttle to help you steer the car through the corner, apply more throttle towards the exit of the corner and before you've exited the power's gone. Use fourth for the same corner and you're too low in the rev change to get decent throttle response, give it some stick towards the exit, wait a second, and then it goes. I hate it. For spirited driving you simply need a wider power band. I'm not saying modern diesels are slow, but I am saying they're still not sporty and versatile enough.

Some people have stated that nowadays diesel engines don't sound bad anymore and don't vibrate more than a petrol car does. If they're talking about the experience of motorway cruising of around 120 km/h then they're right, but at the next traffic light when the engine's idling and you drive off in first gear then you really do hear and feel a difference. Before anyone shouts "BMW 530" at me, yes, I have driven it and, yes, it still sounds somewhat agricultural to me. Especially when compared to its petrol engined sister. For a diesel car it sounds good, but I wouldn't say it sounded nice. You also can't deny there's some more vibration than in the 530i.

Last remark to the stats LotusGT1 posted: I'm missing the part where it says 320i: NA, 320d: FI. If diesel engines don't receive help with breathing, they're nowhere.

Amusing read, poor TT, now you'll see Rudolf Diesel in your nightmares.

As for the engines, I love'em both, petrol for fun and diesel for my wallet.

btw, Merc diesels are the best
:D

I think I can almost completely agree with stradale. Diesels aren't bad, but for spiriting driving, petrol engines are more suited. Yes diesels have a high maximum torque figure, but it’s available in a quite tiny rev range, compared to a petrol engine. This is the main problem I have with diesels. A petrol engine may not have the same amount of max torque but its torque is spread over a wider rev range, which comes in really handy when your pushing your car our of a bend and throwing it form curve to curve.

And petrol engines sound a lot better than diesel engines, that's undeniable. The downside of a petrol engine is idd the fact you can't expect a lot of elasticity when your driving at 1500 rpm. You don't have that big lump of torque a diesel has at his low rev biotope. And a diesel is more efficient, so running a petrol engine is more costly (of course this depends from country to country).

I agree with TT's main thoughts: people buy diesels because of financial reasons. That’s why they became so popular in Europe in recent years. They improved a lot compared to the petrol engine and are currently cheaper to run. If driving around with a diesel engine would cost more than driving around in a petrol one. Diesels wouldn't be so popular (in Europe). Look at North America. American people tend to like ‘torquier’ cars more than European and Japanese people. But still diesels aren't popular in the States and Canada, since there isn't a real financial advantage to drive diesel over there (there are also other reasons, but this is the most important one I think).

Not so fast... it appears that TT hit the nail on the head with regard to "auto enthusiasts" vs "the diesel engine"....

...but then again I wouldn't expect kids stuck with mom's 1.1l grocery getter to understand the true nature of performance cars, their use and enjoyment... so I guess you folks are a perfect match for the diesel engine.

:P

LOL, you're a funny guy. I never said TT was wrong. I don't like diesels.


The ones I like ( yes I have driven more than a fair share ) I wrote down one page back...

The reason I attached that ALI pic was because I knew how you would react (soooo predictible, you don't let the smallest thing slip,but maybe you should sometimes, because I was just joking.....). Calling names and stuff.......don't get me wrong, I've grown to like you just the way you are ( it took me a while tho.....)

I could go on by saying, that you have no idea, how well I get the nature of preformance cars, their use....,I actually have driven quite a few nice cars. but I would be stealing the thread.

"mom's 1.1l", that's a good one. I drive a 1.4. and it's all mine.

^^^ well, I replied to your Ali pic cause it was there :P - but the reply was really to Lotus... and the rest of the 1.1l brigade.. ;)

-- besides, If I didn't reply Jabba would be all over me for not maintaining my contractually obligated post rate.. ;)

Yes ... is this a problem...? ;)

Yep its all personal choice, diesels are about practicality, and while they can be good performers as most have ALOT of torque. Even some hot-ish hatches are turning up with diesel motors, of course asa TT mentioned the narrow powerband is the major drawback. My experience with Merc diesels howver does lead me to believe they have a role, in a smooth shifting auto they are perfect for the motorway, the kickdown works perfectly! and if your getting old like my dad and drive a 2cv to work everyday, you want something relaxing at the weekend and for long journeys :P hence he has an E300 turbodiesel :wink: . Even though i'm defending them i don't think they will ever surpass petrol for what we all want from a car fun!! :D

Some might say: shit now they've ruined the GTi look with a diesel but I say: Wow cool!!

VW TDi's have allways been pretty strong so I wonder what this 170hp version will be like! They're also going to put it in the Passat btw!

what an eventful little thread this has turned into....just wait till TT gets back :P
I think both sides have good points, but in the end it comes down to what you are using the car for (as some of you have already said) :)
BTW, RC I have a 3.8L and its not my mum's either.....she has a 4.0L :P

Besides the fact that I adressed to the performance factor of diesels, TT totally went overboard and put down a lot of "facts" that were simply were false.

I wouldn't expect a redneck from Texas to pin-point any nuance whatsoever, but to get back at what I asked you, how's this any different from the Clarkson C6 review you fucking whined pages about ? Riddled with prejudice, uninformed to boot.

True, but the point still stands. I know and agree with you when you say diesels can't match petrol engines in certain aspects, especially noise and rev-band. But on sheer cold numbers todays diesels can keep up with most petrol engines, with better fuel mileage to boot. And for 90-95% of the people that's enough.

And who the fuck made you the JW police?

Do you even know the meaning of redneck? It actually has a far more international connotation vs the one you are thinking of... and I will gladly be considered a rooinek...

I don't know - how is it different? You seem to know all... :roll:


Sheer cold numbers? Since when does one race and compare by "sheer cold numbers" - unless you are poser, bench racer or ricer?

This is a fucking discussion forum, where people DISCUSS with each other. Go cry in a fucking corner if you can't handle that :roll:

red·neck ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rdnk)

n. Offensive Slang
Used as a disparaging term for a member of the white rural laboring class, especially in the southern United States.
A white person regarded as having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude.

I know where it originated from, however it's quite clear what I mean by it, isn't it ?

http://www.answers.com/topic/redneck

You really are not capable of giving normal answers, do you ? How is TT's review fun and refreshing, while the C6 review was biased and full with wrong information ? Same shit, different day.


Races go by who's the fastest, so who puts down the best numbers. Has nothing to do with posers, bench racers or ricers, in fact, it's the opposite.

I didn't dispute any of that. In fact, I mentioned it myself. But I was under the impression that this was a place where "sheer cold numbers" were all but what really mattered about cars. Those numbers say fuck all about what a car feels like when driving it. Leave the cold numbers to consumer organisations who are the seeing eye dogs for the automotively underdeveloped who want to know what the best sensible choice for a family car is.

By the way, if you read TT's post carefully he never said diesels are crap because they are slow. He thinks diesels are crap because of the reasons you and I both agreed diesels lack in comparison with petrol engines. Apparently we all weigh those disadvantages differently to form the final opinion.

The problem is that not everyone wants or is able to afford two cars to cover the whole spectrum of driving needs. With 90% of the public I can understand why they would choose a diesel, but I can't understand why anyone on here would. There's always a viable alternative for a diesel car if driving really matters to you. For instance, I would never ever buy a new 320d. Instead, I would rather buy a second hand 325i or 330i and use the advantage in purchase price and road tax to cover for the extra fuel costs. I would be infintely more happy for the same amount of money.

I understand what you're saying, and we're probably agreeing in the end, but I'm sorry, but this part is hardly true, in fact, it's just BS. And todays diesels don't vibrate or smell anymore, give or take very few exceptions...
And if you have to make a lot of kilometers a year, costwise you don't always have a choice.

And that was what I was getting at in the first place...

Listen, im not wanting to get into this debate, and do actually dislike diesels intensly myself, howerever, RC, you are dieing on your arse, give up now. Lotus is putting forward such credible arguments that you cant even reply back to them with reasoned and adult points, you sound like a 5 year old who has just been defeated in an argument and so resorts to saying "yeah i know you are, but what am I" - or similar.

I dont want to get involved, but take this as a view from an aoutsider looking in - give up now, your fucked.

LOL......tom it sure looks like your getting invlolved with comments like that :P Thats not saying I disagree with you though........ :wink:

Looks like Tom really knows how to light RC's fuse. "Give it up, you're fucked" in combination with credible, logical arguments (more so if they have been put forward by Lotus) have the effect a red flag has on a mad bull. :lol:

I'll be watching this from a safe distance... :mrgreen:

Like i say, im not trying to get involved, i just think RC is wasting his time trying to go on. Lotus has put forward such reasonable arguments, he seems to have all bases covered. I for one would like to see how RC is going to argue his way out.

I am back and what the fuck happened in here? :)

I never said they can't match petrol engines, sfter so many millions invested, they managed to do so, but the diesel engine is still the same old shit.. like gold plated to make it appear what it isn't
The diesel is maybe faster or as fast as a petrol one, but no real car fanatic would pic it over the latter.. only if the vallet is more important maybe :roll:

Of course I went a bit too far, I know the Opel V6 isn't the best one out there, but like others said, there are good cars (engines) and diesel ones.. different thing for different ppl I guess

Oh yes, after doing the same road with my car the other day, I can tell you it felt quite slower compared to that orrible Signum, and still, I would never trade my car for a faster oil burner

Not going anywhere. You attacked TT because he derided diesels - which is in fact deserved. They are noisy, dirty and unsuited to performnce driving in their current forms. They simply serve to sell cheap cras - or to lower consumption on expensive cars.

Period.

If you are discussing work vehicles that haul loads this is a different story.

Clearly the car TT tested was not a heavy duty truck.

And here you thought you knew everthing. However you are simply a loud mouthed twit.

Don't for one second imagine that you have intellectual superiority over anyone. You don't now it all - or even remotely know a little of what people think say or mean.

So - in this vein I welcome the term red neck - as I am one, an english speaking ex-South African.

With regard to me being from the a white rural laboring class in the southern United States having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude - it seems you are wrong again.

Simply put - the C6 review was wrong - and if you turn around and read his (JC's) written article, he says the opposite, almost praising it for what it did.

TT on the other hand, drove a diesel sedan, didn't ike it - and then provided his opinion as to why he thinks it is the case.

Now he may have misquoted the "nerd info" behind the scenes - but who cares - the car sucked - as do mosat every diesel car.

Actually - you are wrong. Races are not won on the dyno, they are won o the track - where all the pieces come together, or not.

Why do you think "magazine racers" and "bench racers" are made fun of? Because they quote numbers as if the numbers win the race - they don't, never have - and never will.


Tommy boy.. ;) - I like you an all - but really...

Dieing on my arse? Lotus just hates me so much he is easy to set off. :) I am correct on every one of my points... Lotus has put forth no credible argument - he is simply yelling that diesels are not bad look at the numbers.

And we have a perfect example, where, it does'nt matter about the numbers - TT tried one and it sucked.

If diesels are the answer, then F1 would not be racing with petrol. ;)

i just think that you are now turning this into a preformance debate in order to win the argument. A Vauxhall Sigum was never intended to be a fast and performance car, so i dont know why you are banging on about diesels being no good for performance - they arent designed to be.

You just sounded so pathetic when you tried to reply to lotus's point about the C6 review, it was like he had you in the corner with a watertight point, so you had to resort to 5 year old remarks to get out of it.

Anyway, im staying the fuk out of it. Diesel<Petrol That is my view.

There is no argument to win. You don't see Lotus trying to shove his dick down other peoples throats that agree with TT... :P

And what 5 year old remark chum?

I think the main problem is that many folks here are in the 15 to 25 age group - that sometimes feels a need to be overly adult in order to demonstrate and prove "adulthood".

Sometimes reading things as they appear can go a long way towards reducing conflict confusion and anger.

The bottomline is that TT tested a car and did not like it.

Period.

His opinions are just that - and his thougth on diesels matches many peoples thoughts. And while the diesels may make the boffins get all horny, in reality they are noisy, dirty and really not that much better than their petrol counter parts - mosty because of fuel prices.

If you want fuel efficiency, then hybrids are the way to go.

Dieselshave just been repackaged to try appeal to peoples pocket books.

Do you need a tissue? your dribbling shit again.

There it is again.

See - you people are so uptight.

I have a serious doubt that most of you folks act this way in real life. All judgemental and superior like.

Aye RC, you are a funny guy....I don't hate you, but your way of thinking is clearly pathetic at times.

Not going anywhere. You attacked TT because he derided diesels - which is in fact deserved. They are noisy, dirty and unsuited to performnce driving in their current forms. They simply serve to sell cheap cras - or to lower consumption on expensive cars.

Period.

If you are discussing work vehicles that haul loads this is a different story.

Clearly the car TT tested was not a heavy duty truck.

I never attacked TT, I simply stated he was wrong, and he is. Current diesels are NOT more noisy or smellier than their petrol counterparts, give or take very few bad examples. It's not up to you to decide if it's not going anywhere or not. LOL, even TT admitted he went over the top with part of his story. I even adressed to the fact diesels are less suited for performance oriented people. So what is your fucking point ?

You should realise one day that your opinion is not equal to facts, as you supposedly think. For a 36-year old that's quite pathetic behaviour...

And here you thought you knew everthing. However you are simply a loud mouthed twit.

Don't for one second imagine that you have intellectual superiority over anyone. You don't now it all - or even remotely know a little of what people think say or mean.

Hahaha...you make assumptions you can't back up. I don't think I have intellectual superiority over anyone you idiot. Never claimed so either.

I think I have a fair grasp of what the term redneck means, and I give a flying fuck what your vein about it is. Never put words in my mouth, you know damn well what I meant. And you haven't provided anything to make me think otherwise...

Simply put - the C6 review was wrong - and if you turn around and read his (JC's) written article, he says the opposite, almost praising it for what it did.

TT on the other hand, drove a diesel sedan, didn't ike it - and then provided his opinion as to why he thinks it is the case.

Now he may have misquoted the "nerd info" behind the scenes - but who cares - the car sucked - as do mosat every diesel car.

Simply put, the C6 review was wrong ?? Ahahahahhaha. TG is just as opinionated as TT was, only this time you actually liked what was said. Don't BS any further, and for crying out loud, get your head out of your arse, and come with some actual facts...

Dieing on my arse? Lotus just hates me so much he is easy to set off. Smile I am correct on every one of my points... Lotus has put forth no credible argument - he is simply yelling that diesels are not bad look at the numbers.

And we have a perfect example, where, it does'nt matter about the numbers - TT tried one and it sucked.

If diesels are the answer, then F1 would not be racing with petrol. :)

You have a poor way with words if that's your grasp of my first post. You can't be correct on your points, you didn't make any...

RC, I give rats ass about your perogative on me, your 15-25 analyses (creative, I have to say), but open your fucking eyes...

Tsskk, it's like talking to a brick wall....

You talking about being judgemental, oh this is getting funny....

Exactly, no matter how credible the point you put forward is, you can bet your cock RC will try and discount it or worm hs way out of the argument. If i hadnt seen pictures of his daughter and such, i would seriously contest his proposed age. He wildly claims that we are all imature and trying to proove something about our mental age? It is RC who needs to fucking grow up. Chum :wink: .

Sorry, but diesel ARE noisier and smell MUCH worse than petrol engines. And most important.. the fucking microparticles.. they should enforce the damn filters at least. A diesel car produces MANY (thousands times more I think) micro particles than petrol engines.. and those damn things can enter your blood through your lungs.. it is just scary.

But beside that, even if some top of the line diesel engines are pretty quiet (still noway near a good petrol one), their smell is always the same and when I am in a city like Milano or Paris where diesel cars are much more common, I really smell the difference

i actually fully agree with you. I am not arguing that diesles are better than their petrol counterparts. I would take a petrol car, over a diesel ANYDAY.

I'm just arguing that RC's being a bit of a prat and is coming out with some appalingly shit comments which he is masquerading as arguments.

I'm pretty much done with this thread :roll: