which is better Vtec or non Vtec
 

Hi all I just bought 1995 honda del sol that im thinking of upgrading but i want to know which engine should i get for it and weather to get a vtec engine or a none vtec engine. I heard that the vtec engines are good but the problem is the dely of vtec. and can i control when the vtec works by using a vtec controller

A VTEC car is 100 time better than a non-V-tec car..

You said problems with the delay you mean when the VTEC kicks in..Well you don't really want the VTEC to kick in every time you go to the shopping mall.. But the car do pull normally before vtec kick in..it's not like a turbo charged car when it's really really slow before the turbo spools up and go's.. It's normal power then when you hit about 4,000rpm ( Your engine might be a B16 or B18 VTEC ) it will pull a lot more and the car sound will change noticebly..

A VTEC controller can reduce the V-TEC starting point but not by much..maybe few hundread rpm's..

ps: You have to get a manual gear box for the full vtec experiance :mrgreen:

Try and get the B18 ITR motor to fit in. That would be fun!

The B16 from the Civic VTi / Si (160hp 1.6) will drop straight in. I have owned a previous generation CRX, the Civic CRX SiR 1991, which had the 148hp VTEC motor in it (never sold in the US). I drove both the 130hp and the full power VTEC before I decided on my purchase and I never looked back - the car weighed 1010 kg (2220 lbs) and I saw 145-147 on the dial (mph) which isn't bad for 148hp!

Also, the legend is that no (stock) VTEC motor has ever blown up since 1990 when they started making them. That covers a lot of motors !!

:oops: :oops: :oops: .... My bro distroid his S2000 VTEC engine after about 10,000 km only.. :oops: :oops: It's not the engine fault .. It's my brother vault and the supercharger which is on the motor .. But couple of weeks latter it was rebuild and running on the road's like new..


I

That's the reason (supercharger) then, maybe :?:

Non Vtec because most pople think your an arse if you go round with Vtec stickers on :p

/\ good point! :o

Some useful info if you decide to go a VTEC: http://www.apexi-usa.com/electronics...aloverview.asp

BTW, congrats on the car. Take good care of it, please don't make it look like the 20,000,000 other Del Sol's I see around here: Riced out. :)

okay i decided to go with the b16 vtec. no i need to upgrade it. i want to install upgrades that are good for my engine first like headers and an air intake system. then im thinking of forced induction should i go with a super or turbo charger

I don't get it why a lot of people want to supercharge or turbocharge their perfectly good NA engine with its specific characteristics. Certainly with a high revving NA Honda engine. If you super/turbocharge it, the once very reliable engine will lose its reliability drastically.

But of course, it's your car, so I won't bother any further ;)

1-Mugen full exhaust ( Header, high flow cat and catback )
2-Skunk2 Racing Intake Manifold
3-Spoon Sports
4-Either Spoon or Skunk2 camshaft
5-Skunk2 Silver Cam Gears
6-Skunk2 Valve Springs and Retainers
7-A'PEX V-TEC AFC Digital

With that setup.. You got one hell of a N/A ......

I think he won't get the that car in the first place if he have the amount of money for all these upgrades plus the engine change.

He said he already decided on an engine which is the B16A and he want to upgrade it with some stuff .. But then he want's to either supercharge it or turbocharge it.. I recomend keeping it N/A and instead of putting the money on a supercharger or a turbo put it on the stuff listed.. :D .. I know I might have not been very clear in that point.. my bad..

Alright, I cant hold my tounge on this topic any longer. Here is my suggestion. (and I got some honda experience under my belt. I drive a 94' ex coupe with a SIR2 b16, and I've swapped everything from ls-vtecs into del sols to ITR's into crx's, as well as some custom turbo work.)

Ok, where to start.. first of all, here is my 2 cents on the car you baught. First, reasons I think its a good buy. Its a 95' so its still OBD1 making swaps that much eazier, as well as making engine management a little simpler, as well as cheaper. Also I love that its a targe top. My roommate/long time freind has a black 96 VTEC (stock b16 model) and its great. However, as far as looks go, I much prefer the 96, 97 del sol's with the front bumper with no fog lights and such. Also the Del sol, despite its size, its kinda heavy for a honda. Now thats a realitive term in the honda world. Your car should be about 2500 lbs stock wieght. Thats about 150 lbs more than a civic ex of the same year. There is not much you can do to remove the extra wieght of the del sol, which is mainly due to the frame needed more supports because its a targe top.

Ok, your question about Vtec was already anwsered but, just to clear it up sence no one said it, Vtec basically makes a cars low and mid range power alot better than a non-vtec car. Sure the real thrill is the upper RPM's where it lets the race cam do its stuff, but the benifit of having a high and low rpm cam, is that they can make the low cam (actually middle, because there are 3, a third for fuel economy) better suited for mid range power. Where this same cam can work great at 2500-5000 rpm, it would be gasping for air at 8500. So really Vtec gives you the best of both worlds. :mrgreen:

Ok on to engine choices. Because the del sol its heavier than an integra or civic, I would not recommend the B16 if your going to be swapping engines. For less cost, I would say to Ls-Vtec the car. LS-Vtec is basically an b18 non-vtec engine with a Vtec head put on (with some modification) to convert it to Vtec. I like this method for 3 reasons but dislike it for 1. Its good because its cheap (alot cheaper than buying a Vtec engine infact. I paid $2800 for my SIR engine, 170hp, and I built my friend an Ls-Vtec for only $1580 (not including ECU) and with an AEM intake as the only mods to both, he made 162 WHP, where as I only got 156... bastard....). That brings me to #2 which is they make alot of power, and more torque than a b16 (about 15-20 more) because of its increased displacement, which helps with heavier cars. Also they respond to mods better because of the displacement jump over a B16. However, they are not as reliable. Only because alot of people mess up when building them. If done correctly, there is no reason they cant be as reliable as a stock engine. (people tend to try and rev. them past 9000 rpm like a b16 which is stupid, because of its longer stroke and thinner rods. Where as the valve train is the limiting factor for B16's, the Ls-Vtec is piston speed limited above 8800.)

Yikes, long post already and Im just getting started :x Well Il let you guys read this and Il continue my rant later. MUCH more to come.... and just for the record Im not even really a true honda guy, I much prefer Evos and Porsches :mrgreen:

Alright if you think you've absorbed all you can from what I said above, than I'll continue.( I tried to wait longer before continuing, but I knew I would forget what I was saying :oops: )

Ok, as in reguard to this list....

1-Mugen full exhaust ( Header, high flow cat and catback )
2-Skunk2 Racing Intake Manifold
3-Spoon Sports
4-Either Spoon or Skunk2 camshaft
5-Skunk2 Silver Cam Gears
6-Skunk2 Valve Springs and Retainers
7-A'PEX V-TEC AFC Digital

It is a very very good list of high quality parts, but there is a few problems. First full mugen exaust is very very very expensive, as well as nearing impossible to get for a del sol inside the US. For those 3 parts you'r talking $1500 and Im sorry, but no matter how awsome it sounds, which it does (nice and quiet), or how cool it looks, which is certainly does, that is to much for parts that dont make any more power than most others costing 1/3 as much. The Skunk2 racing manifold was a good unit a few years ago, but today there are better, cheaper manifolds such as the edelbrock PerformerX manifold. A comparo I read on these 2 had the PerformerX Making 3 more torque and 8 more Hp on a modded GSR.(na) And considering its a bit cheaper, I say to go with that.
Gunna have to elaborate on #3... spoon sports, I think you left something off there :mrgreen:
As for cams, Id recommend TODA, just because they have worked so well for me in the past. The all motor drag CRX my friends and me built as a project car in high school ran a B20 block with a B16 head. We started with Type-R cams but when we went with quad throttle bodies, they didnt have the flow we needed. We called alot of manufacturers and after hearing most peoples sales pitches, I was most impressed with what TODA had to offer. They make cams for any application, street or drag. However, for street setups, Id say Spoon or Skunk2 would be equally as good, if not marginally better, but they will be a little more expensive.
The cam gears dont really matter what brand you use, as long as they arnt a cheap set that will brake. Any name brand is good, like HKS, Greddy, Skunk2, AEM, Etc... they all make quality parts. Valve Springs and retainers is a good one though. Much at my own expense I have played with different Spring combos. Basically what I learned is that below 9000 RPM the stock Intake Springs work good with an aftermarket cam, but unlike the stock intake springs, the stock exaust pieces are single spring units.(the intake uses dual valve springs, which is a spring inside a spring, for more force) If you turn up your rev. limit or get after market cams, you will need to do one of two things. You will need to either get a full new set of Exaust springs for Intake and Exaust cams, or if your not going above 9 grand, just get a set of stock intake valve springs and put them on the exaust side, they work fine. As for retainers, the Civic Type R units are a little cheaper than after market units, and work just as good, but they are hard to find, so I cant really recommend them above after market ones. Again the stock retainers are fine with a stock cam below 9k. Above that you risk damage and will need to upgrade.
As for the last piece, the super V-AFC, there is no arguing this is best unit this side of full aftermarket ECU's. In my experience, unless your really going for power or 13.0 comp. with 12,000 rpm, the stock ECU works great, with some AFC help. I say this unit is damn near a must!

::deep breathe:: alright.... As for things he did not mention on an all motor set up, this is what I would suggest.
1) AEM cold air intake. I dont know what they do, or how they do it, but time and time again, the AEM units make more power, more torque and sound better than any other intake, bar none. I've custom made 4.5" alluminum intake pipes, with AEM filters on the end, and they still make a few Hp less at the wheels. Im an AEM fan for life... they just Rock!
2) Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator. B&M, Vortech, AEM. All good units. When changing cams, and I/H/E, always a little more power to be made with this item.
3) Bosch 255 Fuel Pump. Cheap, Reliable, more fuel than you'll ever need, and a big step up from stock. If you plan on doing anything past 165-170 WHP with a B16 or Ls-Vtec, this unit is a must. (B16b's and B18c's can go a little higher, around 180-200, before they start requiring this part)
4) Exaust. (was mentioned but heres my 2 cents) My suggested Company for this is Greddy. Greddy's SP2 system is cheap and very quiet... almost stock. Doesnt sound like rice, and makes good power. For headers, the Stock units are so well designed for B series Vtec motors, A port job will make just a few Hp shy of aftermarket units. Considering Headers are $300-$500, unless you have to have that underhood shine, deal with the rust and port out the insides. For cats, Catco makes cheap universal cats that just need some flanges welded on. A weld shop will chop your stock cat flanges and install your new cat in an hour or so and charge less than $100. However, all together this part will cost you around $300-$350, and will only make 1-4 hp. As long as you dont tell anyone, putting a $40 straight pipe in is good for more power :lol:
5) Gauges. For all motor cars, with an V-AFC (which covers as an A/F ratio gauge) really the only after market guage I would recommend is Oil Pressure Gauge. Even more so for Ls-Vtec engines, where oil passages can be blocked if improperly built.
6) Short Throw Shifter. Ok not an engine piece, but I put on in my car, and it is seriously the best thing I have ever done to a car. The Stock honda tranny already shifts like butter, but the throws are a bit far and are too effortless. An aftermarket unit will tighten up the shifts, giving them shorter, more precice feel. I just love shifting my car now, It feels almost as good as an S2000, which is a huge compliment.


Arg.... ranting again, Il get into forced induction and wieght reduction and head porting and nitrous and all that stuff later. Right now I need a Hot Pocket brake :mrgreen:

Just so you know guys, buddyclub makes the only exhuast(not including headers)where you'll actually feel a difference. Many trials and errors. A friend of mine has 1 of 5(not sure of that #) type r 1.6L 12 second NA hatches. And you guys are informing him to put really expensive parts on his car, just remember expensive isn't always the best. But those are good parts, and do a lot of h/w before anything and if you want info from my friend who is the V-tec king in the area just give me message. Goodluck.

adamk24, nice write up their.. I have to admit I'm a noobe in Honda.. and you probebly knew that hehehe...

You said you ran a B20 on a B16 head.. is the B20 block from a honda CR-V.. If not then I hear that they do the same thing with the the CR-V engine.. They take the engine and put a b16 or a b18 not sure head .. It revs a bit less but gives a lot more tourque at low end..

thanks alot guys for the info u gave. the big problem that i am facing is that i am living in kuwait where there arent alot of places where i can go to buy parts. so i have to do this all by myself. the other thing is that here in kuwait it gets to 50 degrees celuis outside in the day and around 40 at night. this is in the summer time. so my main concern is overheating. I already own a 2001 camry so i dont think that i would do alot of day driving in the del sol. Im gonna go with adamk24 advice and try to find a good b18 engine. i wanted to go with the b16 becuz i already have it. but i was wondering if i install must of the parts mentioned here what times will i be running in 1/4 mile? the hp i have in mind is around 250 - 300 but i think that its gonna be hard to pull that off with a all motor car thats y i asked which would be better a turbo or supercharger. so what im thinking about is rebuilting a b18 with some modifation. changing the pistons and rods cam gears etc then i wanna try it out. if it needs more power then i need fored induction. but like i said before the main problem is heat. so im gonna try all motor first then i gonna go with a turbo or a super. whiich ever makes less heat

You can't do that sorry..

If what your saying you will rebuild your car to the max in a N/A by changing the internals then you can't jump into turbo charge .. bacause I think the pistons which are made for the N/A are not ment to be pushed even further by a turbo so they will melt down for sure.. You have to decide before you buy anything if your going to turbo charge it or go N/A all the way..

By the way a friend of mine got a Civic with a B18C ( integra GSR motor ) internal modifications and he said he got close to 13 sec in quarter mile which is pretty good for a 1.8l engine

And I know Q8 temp in summer.. So you better get a seriously big and a very good quality radiator ..

NA pistons are high compression, and you can pop a turbo on it but don't push the psi. If you want big power you and a turbo then you need low compressiong pistons. Is this your everyday car? If it is then keep it NA, less problems that deal with having a lot of torque especially changing your clutch from slippage due to torque.

Good thing you've taken a VTEC, much faster, to give you an example:

Prelude 2.2i VTEC = 7.2 seconds to 100 kph
Prelude 2.3i = 7.7 seconds to 100 kph

The VTEC wins easy, and has even a 100 cc less.

CRX with 1.6i VTEC: 7.2 to 100 kph
CRX 1.6i without VTEC: 8.5 to 100 kph

:D

Thank you for the information about what specific goals you have badar1985, it will greatly help us let you know what you should do. So, let me just ask a few more questions to clear some things up.
First you say you already have a b16? If this is the case, then I would say to just go with that engine. However, if you are looking for an all new engine to swap in, here is what I would recommend.
Vtec is not just about power. For me, the best part is the sound. I love the explosion of sound that comes from the intake trackt when it goes onto the power cam. However, with the power figures that you are thinking of, you will need forced induction. Vtec and turbos go together like sheep and rednecks but for your application (hot weather, reliable power) I would say go the LS route.
So the engine I am suggesting is the Integra LS B18, or more specifically the 1992-93 B18A1 (140hp) and 1994-00 B18B1 (142hp). They come with a more turbo friendly 9.3:1 compression, compared to a Vtec series 10.2 or higher. Also they because they are 1.8 liters compaired to a B16's 1.6, they make more power and more torque with turbo setups. Well that is to say, they respond better to boost if you dont count the Vtec on a B16. Basically this engine will give reliable, torquey power up to 280 WHP, beyond that you will need internals, axles and kevlar timing belts. Some people will try and tell you that you dont need Kevlar belts and axles, but I laugh at them when they get a boost spike on a down shift and snap an axle or break a timing belt and reform the valves into shapes that you would not want (unless you like abstract art, then go ahead.)
But what it all really comes down to is price. And heres the beauty part. For around $4000, according to the price search I did, You can get the Following.
-1997 Integra GS engine with tranny, ECU and all required wiring. (everything needed for swap)
-2 reshaped B series motor mounts (the other 2 stock units will work)
-Kevlar timing belt
-Hasport 400hp Axles
-Exeddy stage 2 clutch (organic sprung hub 6 puc. I highly recommend this, as it is perfectly streetable and holds great up to 320 hp. Seriously this is the clutch you want, even if you think you want something stronger)
-58 Series t3/t4 hybrid Turbo (one of my fav. hybrids because its exaust housing is small to match the 1.8 of an LS for good spool, yet the Compressor flows enough to make more power than the housing flow charicteristics can handle. Combines to make a fast spool hard hitting turbo with lots of cool, street useable boost.)
-Custom Exaust work (this part will varry alot so I just said $550 for all of it, Basically I included a Manifold, downpipe and Cat back 3" piping.)
-Frount Mount Intercooler ( http://www.johnnyracecar.com/ I have used his intercoolers twice in the past and they are seriously the best intercoolers I have ever seen for the money. And they fit perfect for most applications, especially hondas :mrgreen: Also smaller, vented fins means more air for the radiator gets through, which is a good thing if you live in a hot place like phoenix (where I live now) or Kw8)
-Fuel system (pressure regulator, injectors and fuel pump. The brands are un-important as long as they work, just price shop to find the best deal)
-Intercooler piping (again this will require some custom work, but with $250 you can get a good welder to make you some alluminium pipes that look great and flow even better)
-BOV (everyone is allowed one ricer mod, and for me its the HKS SSQ BOV. Its very expensive, ushally chrome and actually performs pretty badily compared to most other blow off valves. But my god it just sounds so fucking cool :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: )
- Boost controller. (I just went with a basic manual boost controller from Hallman. However, for neat electronic tricks (and about $300 more) you can have a very nice Greddy Profec.B. that will work as a turbo timer, a boost gauge, and a Boost controller.
-Apexi S-AFC ( Great for A/F controll, as well as spark timing and some other great engine management features. I stand by the Originall Statement, this is the cheapest engine controll module you can buy. Sure its not really an ECU, but Id be damned if you can do just as much as an aftermarket ECU with it)
-24 pack of Dr. Pepper (hey, Engine builders gotta drink right?)

Im sure there is something Im forgetting, but thats basically all you will need for 250-270 WHP with a B18 turbo. Infact now that Im saying that, here is one more unit that you will for sure want.
:::::this unit was not originally included in cost estimate:::::
-Koyo Alluminium Radiator. (absolutely the best radiator you can fit in a Del Sol, the engine will wonder how you moved from Kw8 to Alaska so fast.)
If you want more power, which is possible however a little extreme as this setup should be enough to run mid or low 12's or better with good traction, you will need new internals which will run you about $800 for pistons rods and journals. Also here a little tid bit most people wont tell you, only causing you to blow your new pistons on detonation. If you want to run more than 260 HP with an LS engine, you should install the GSR oil squirters that spray oil on the bottom of the pistons. It helps keep the piston cooler and keeps the little carbon spikes on the top from getting so hot they cause detonation and turn your shiney expensive stuff into shiney expensive stuff that needs to be replaced.

And before I start a new post, why go turbo? Because supercharging means one of two things. 1) Roots type, which = low power, huge heat intake. And that just wont do. 2)Centrifugal type, which = Low power at low RPM, Good power at High RPM, Very cool intake charge with Air to Liquid charge cooler, and a very pretty engine bay.... and about $8000 for 240 whp..... for just the kit... not including the other stuff you will need, like the engine, or the radiator or anything :|

Also, to EVO, yes the B20 I was refering to comes from the CRV (the head swap you I was refering to is also called CRVTEC.... a very clever name :mrgreen: )

Just a few more things about what your choices are if you want to go really fast, very cheaply and very reliably in a honda. First off your choice of tires is very important, so I'd like to take this time to just express my opinion on the Second most important mod you do to your car.

FALKEN AZENIS SPORT RT-215's!!!!! sorry for shouting but I am simply in love with these tires. First they have sidewalls built for road racing, a tread pattern that is actually fairly good in the wet, as well as being absolutely great for road racing (because the larger progressive tread blocks near the outside help corner grip alot), the tread compound is almost R compound in softness, yet somehow manages a treadwear rating of 200 compared to most R comp's 60-80. Some say they wear out fast, but Im not going to talk about that, it doesnt matter. Why? because at $48 per 195/50R14, you can replace them every 10 months and still pay less than those POS ricer tires that look cool but grip like shit and cost 4-5 times as much.
Honestly, I have bought alot of tires in my rather short life experience with racing, and this is the only car product I have ever found that absolutely blows everything else in the market away. I cant even think of one tire to compare them to, they just own everything else in so many ways. So basically this is the tire you want, and if not take this time to hate yourself.

Ok, as far as choosing turbos, its such a complicated art, I really dont have time (Ok so maybe I do have the time, but how bout Im just to lazy...) to explain it all, or even touch the tip, but heres just what I suggest. For cheap kits, its hard to beat a properly built t3/t4 because they are so easy to get in just the right trim and housings for any application. But if price is not as much of a consern as having alot of fun, then its hard to beat a good ball bearing turbo.

If you have $1200 or more to drop on turbo, then the one you want for your 1.6-2.2 liter engine is a Garrett GT28RS turbo otherwise known as a Disco Potato turbo. Why is this the turbo to have? How does 315 Hp @ 17 psi sound? not that Impressive? Well than how about all 17 psi at 2050 rpm on a B18B1? If that didnt make you wet your pants, this will. The T3/T4 I recommended in the last post wont make that much boost untill about 4100 RPM on the same engine. Do the math, thats the same boost at 1/2 the RPM. Basically you will make easy streetpower in any rpm and at time not in 2 seconds, not in a second, but RIGHT NOW. No waiting, no turbo lag, just glance over at the idiot in the accord w/ exaust and show him your tail lights like you were being pushed by a steam catapult.
Sport Compact Car used this turbo on their project silvia with stunning results and it is the same turbo Edelbrock puts in their truely excellent Honda turbo kits. Basically if you can afford to play at this level, you will never regret it.

Another thing to think about is external wastegates. They will help keep down your intake temps (some will argue this but trust me it does. Its just simple physics. Backpressure = more work for the turbo to push the same amount of air. More work = more heat. More heat = :cry: ) By reducing the backpressure of an internal wastegate you can make it easier for the turbo to push air. This means, faster spool, better top end power, cooler intake temps and a generally happy engine. Other benifits of External wastegates are the more precice boost controll of the spring and hub diaphrams they use, and (for the truely geeky) it allows road racers, or anyone who does any prolonged On boost driving (ushally only at full throttle) which is when the wastegate is redirecting gasses around the turbine wheel, it keeps the hot exhaust gas out of the turbo completely, which makes it run cooler, which increases the life of the turbo, keeps the Compressor side cooler (intake temps again) and helps resist against damage to the turbo caused by lean conditions leading to hot gasses and melted parts. Plust it looks wicked!

A VTEC head swap is always an option but I would say money would be better spent on turbo components. However a good set of cams in your B18a/b will make about as much power with a turbo as a VTEC swap,it just it wont as driveable, unless you use a rather mild cam in the LS head, which is kinda pointless. But I really dont see the need for any of that under these power levels, unless you think your top end needs some help. Some mild head porting will help add alot of power though, and can be done at home with a Die grinder.

Another Benifit of the B18 LS is its turbo freindly gearing. It has rather tall stock gearing that when doubling the power with a turbo means gearing that is just about perfect. With VTEC trannies (which are also notrously weak) they are already geared so closely to stay in VTEC when racing, they just burn the tires non stop with turbos, they really really really get poor traction. This factor alone makes me recomend LS trannies to any VTEC turbo owner.

Also a limited slip is a good idea. Kaaz is a personal favorite, but Quaif (spelling?) also makes great Mechanicall diffs. Dont use clutch slips, they suck for this application. Get a good worm or splinned gear limited slip. Both are called mechanical LSD's. Phantom Grip locking diffs also work good, but I have my doubts about them. I have one in my civic right now, and it does not feel "as good or better than any LSD" as they claim, but it does keep my inside tire from breaking lose in the twisties and I lay twin stripes so.... good enough.

Nitrous..... hahahah :fist:(I got a pm asking me why I said this, and I would just like to say that on a properly build turbo engine there is little or no need for nitrous. On its own, it is very good, but for the purposses of this discussion, dont bother)

External Oil Cooler. In hot temps with turbo cars this is a very very very good idea. (or was it a really really really good idea... I forget...) Basically you can pick them up pretty cheap, Under $200 and it will save you the hassle of more work later. Also if your springing for an expensive turbo, this is a must. Think of it as cheap protection against a bad day.

I'll think of more stuff to ramble on about later, but just try and absorb for now. I've actually rather impressed myself with some of the info I've supplied. (wish someone could have told me this stuff 2 or 3 years ago.... would have saved me alot of time and money :( ) so really think about what I've said. At the same time, dont take what I say as the gospel truth. This is only my experiences, and it certainly isnt the best route out there. This is just my recommendations based on my knowledge at this time and what information I have available to me (google/ebay) So do your own research before under going any major project. :mrgreen: And have fun at it too, or else its kinda pointless eh? :o

I vote to name adamk24 as the honda expert

i second that vote. adamk24 u have giving me so much info thats gonna keep me busy for aleast a year. Thanks alot for all the research you, it must have taken you some time. Sorry if it was any trouble. When i get started ill keep all of you guys up to date. I already have about $6000 saved up so im gonna check out the things you. Im gonna try to go to the states to buy some of the things that you listed becuz i think that they are alot cheaper then here in q8. Now one more question if you guys dont mind do you think that i should stay with the del sol body or get another body like the old crx 89-92. alot of ppl i talk to say thats its better to get the old crx becuz i would save alot of wieght but i hate the way it looks. Please tell me im right which is better looking del sol or crx. I know that the crx wieghs less but it just looks so bad

p.s. im sort of new with this motor stuff, so i didnt know that i could run turbos in a na motor. but thanks for the tip

http://www.onlydominican.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=293 this site shows you all of the honda engines and their power the engine that i have now is the B16A 1.6L JDM DOHC VTEC 92-95 Civic Si-R II/ 92-97 CRX DelSol SiR 170ps i also found this website that sells honda engines http://www.inlinefour.com/motors.html

I have bought engines from Inline Four before, and they really are a top rate supplier. They do a good job of letting you know exactly what you are buying as well as vehicle info, milage, and pictures. However they are not a cheap as ebay but alot more trust worthy. They are not cheaper than a good japanese dealer but those are getting harder and harder to come by. As far as american dealers go, they are about as good as you will find.

For honda/acura engine info go here:

http://www.streettuners.com/curve/en...ine_specs.html

Its the most complete listing I have found so far, and its easy to navigate.

So, you have an SIR II B16, thats the same engine I recently put in my civic. I love it, but the torque of a b18 would be nice. However, If this engine you have is in good running shape, Id say just stick with it. It will work just fine. However, you will need to put lower compression pistons in it before you can add forced induction. So I would say put aside $1000 for rebuilding the engine with axles belts, rods and pistons.

I dont mind helping out at all, its no trouble :mrgreen: its mainly just me rambling, but I'll try and find some good sites to get your parts off of, because most good shops should ship anywhere in the world. But I got one more question.

Are you planning on doing the work yourself, or will you be getting a shop to install and build the motor for you? Because labor will cost almost as much as parts for a majority of this work. Something to think about if your having a shop do the work.

Oh and del sols are way better looking than POS wedge CRX's. However, I would swap a 96+ front end onto your car, to get rid of the fog lamps, and if its got a stock wing, take it off cuz those things look like crap.

But alas, the del sol is alot heavier than the CRX. But that does not mean it cannot be fast, so I would not worry to much about it. Plus the interior on a CRX is shit compaired with a Del Sol.

:oops:

Evo I love your new avatar. Miss november, thats hilarious! Nice car too :mrgreen:

Everso, the first time I drove a VTEC series engine was my freinds totaly stock B16 delsol. I thought it was total crap. Two weeks later we put an AEM intake on itm and I instantly fell in love. The sound of the engine is so unique, so fierce and so invigorating it just makes you want to drive the hell out of it all the time.
Stock Vtec engines are not that impressive unless you consider their size, however what they do increadably well is respond to mods. The sound they make with an intake is a thing of beauty.

Thats not how you drive a honda. They have very very close gear ratios to keep you at that magic rpm. Basically they are not made to be put in third and floored when you want to race, you have to upshift alot for street driving and if im going say.... 45 in 5th, I have to jump down to 2nd if I want to get on it. Or if Im at 55, I'd need to jump to third.

In all honesty most N/A honda engine do not make a hugely fast car without striping it of wieght, but thats not the point. Its not about going fast, or pulling the most G's or being the fastest around a track. It is just so much fun to drive, that sitting at home I just want to jump up at night at go out driving. My eclipse is much better looking, way faster, handles better and has that great turbo sound. But it just doesnt excite me like my little ol' civic does. :wink:


Maybe Im just a ricer :lol:

[quote="adamk24"]

Are you planning on doing the work yourself, or will you be getting a shop to install and build the motor for you? Because labor will cost almost as much as parts for a majority of this work. Something to think about if your having a shop do the work.


hey All. The work will be done by me. My father has alot of experince with honda engines but he never upgraded one. and i have some backround i read alot of books listen to ppl and when ever i get in trouble i gonna come here to bug you guys. I do plan on getting rid of those really ba looking fog lights. i might get rid of them or place them some where else. i have a question for you guys. of all the engines that are at the in line four site which do u think is the best in terms of price and performance.

i would chose the 95 Spec JDM GSR COMPLETE CONVERSION
but im only an amatur

Evo I love your new avatar. Miss november, thats hilarious! Nice car too :mrgreen:

[/quote]

:twisted: :twisted: It is not meant to be hilarious.. Stop laughing at Miss November :cry: :cry: .. I am going to tell mom on you.. :D :lol: :lol:

lol, well she does have alot in common with a beauty queen. High upkeep costs, gets your more respect from your freinds etc.... and like most beauty queens, Id ride her any day of the week :mrgreen:

As for my favorite for the price, I like the B20 and B18 non-vtecs, because for around 1500 you can get a kick ass turbo motor from them. However, barring those two, the B16's are very common and there for very cheap. But if you want a good engine of any of them, the JDM gsr engine is very good, just alot more expensive.

I did really like their price on the Accord Type R H22. With that much torque and HP it would be easy to straight up swap the engine into a light ass car and run low 12s or better.

Great! hahahaha, we'll be ready to anwser your questions :mrgreen:

I am gonna third the vote for Adamk24. I am just gonna say that it is 7:22 in the morning and that although i was about to sleep an hour ago i just bump on this topic. Pure me......if i only knew........all that info that was waiting in here patiently to go into my head. Now after reading all this i have only one thing to say : AMAZING!

Thanks for sharing Adam and you Badar come up with some more questions (and more difficult) to make Adam come out from his lair and overload our heads with more useful info.

That all, i am gonna sleep now...

:lol: :lol: :lol: How did you know I live in a lair... :shock:

to be honest .. vtec is nice and the delay can be changed with a apexi VTAC system but i wouldnt reccomending it as a honda shows its power up in teh high power ranges.. now for a engine conversion the del sol is a light car very light in fact and if u want power .. its simple do teh h22a conversion or keep the stock head and get a hrv block and slap that togther making the bottom half of the car alot more powerful .. yet keeping it light .. but on a budget iw ould say get the ba18 jdm tuned .. make sure its out of a TYPE R with a the propper after market ECU. also for a quick 1/4 mile time .. make sure u have propper suspension setup.. stiff backs and nice and semi stiff fronts..... good luck pm me if u need more help ..

Pok.

Impressive knowlege you've got there Adamk24, you got any pics/vids/more info on your civic?

ok i must add that vtec is only good for 100.000km after that they loose there VTECness.. just thought ill add it in to help you :)

Pok.

Hmmm....


Del Sols may look small, but they are actually very heavy. 200 lbs heavier than a standard civic infact. Also the H22 swap is very difficult and complicated compared to the B series which came in that chassis.

Type R engines are rediculously expensive and if your considering forced induction, not realy that much better a starting point than a standard engine. If you want a really fast all motor car, the type R has alot of good things on it that make it a good engine to use (knife edged crank, stonger rods, ligher internals, oil coolers, oil sprayers for the crankcase, pistions and valve train, and alot of stuff in the head), but they are in such high demand and so few were made, they are not really worth the cost comparitively.

What??? You know, honda has never once had a Vtec system fail. Ever. On any engine, any model. My freinds CRX uses an old B16 with 225,000 miles and it still runs as good as my engine. In fact, I would say the biggest advantage of honda engines is that they go forever.



Thanks! I dont really have any pictures right now, but I could take a few for the members rides section. Im going back home for christmas, so maybe I can get a few shots of my Eclipse while Im back home as well :mrgreen: