Read em and weep...
 

I see a blurry number then a .2...is that 6.2lbs per hp? I guess I could go find that ad in my Road & Track.....BUT I DEMAND AN ANSWER! :)

merry fucking chirstmas, its still a corvette.

Great here we go....cue RC45's rebuttal.....

What rebuttal?

"it's still a corvette" is a typical fanboy, benchracer, wannabe, camry driving losers answer ;) BTW - Which Ferrari does he drive? :P :lol:

Facts are facts.

62lbs/hp - the number is just another in a long stream of numbers that validate how the C6 Z06 is just continuing what the C5 Z06 started 5 years ago.

The fact that eye-ball squashing performance was now available for "ordinary folks" pisses all the wanna-be posers off no end.

:)

Must suck to be a supporter of something "just for the image" :P

Those numbers again:
sub 3.6ish-s 0-60 - 11.6ish-s 1/4 mile @ 125mph+, 7m42s Northloop, 200mph top speed - and all this for $65,000USD ;)

yea yea, still makes me wish i had a camry though :P

Whoa. That's a lot of hostility to a guy with an opposing view. I would think that a moderator would show a little more respect and maturity.

Not one iota of hostility. :) the Relpy is peppered with smiling emoticons. :)

He can have any opposing view he wants. It is after all his view, right or not ;)

The numbers - they don't lie.

There was once a time when Ferraris had more than image to carry their street cars to the top of the performance heap - sadly those days are gone ;)

Again - the numbers speak for themselves :P ;)

Sure it does ;) :P

and the CCR :?

Probably exactly where cars that cost MILLIONS of dollars should go ;)

I'd like to point out that while it's very impressive it's not the only factor, especially when the numbers are that close. For example, the F430 is apparently noticably quicker in a straightline than a Gallardo, yet the power to weight is worse.

why dont you post hp/lt ???? :wink:

Becasue that's an acedemic number that losers use to justify their piss slow over priced heaps of crap :P ;)

Why don't you post price/Le Mans wins....??? ;)

When the flag drops the bullshit stops - but you knew that :)

RC, RC, RC u disappoint me there m8...u KNOW that corvette has way less wins, even if u only count 911's and not all-out race cars, than porsche. for the record porsche won the Le Mans 24 hours outright 16 times, 1 of those being 911 (1978 935 was 911-derived) and the number of class victories in Le Mans...i think they stopped counting at 40 or so :P and how many does corvette have? 4? 5?
and in case u say only the current generation counts...i believe porsche has won the GT2 class ever since the 996 started racing on le mans, which was probably in '98 or so...

Gucom, Gucom, Gucom - you disapoint me there m8... you do the typical "ricer fly by move"....

It is obvious that when one considers the Corvette is a SINGLE car not a manufacturer, that the comparison would be to the class entered and races run since the model in quesiton was conceived ;)

Nice try though :P

ok so as i said, even if u just count 911's they still have WAY more wins than corvettes...nice try of covering that up though :P

The 911 doesn't run agains the Vette - if it did it would lose - so it doesn't :P

ok i looked it up couldnt find 2004 resutls fast enough they might follow later...but considering the 911's are in a class lower, look at how few laps there have been between the 1st vette and the 1st 911 in the last couple of years (and in 2001 a couple of 911s actually beat all corvettes!):
2005 -17 laps
2004 ?? laps
2003 -6 laps
2002 -13 laps
2001 +5 laps
2000 -8 laps
at the +/- 330-350 laps they cover, and considering the 911 is a class lower, most of these differences are nothing at all...so dont be too sure that porsches wouldnt beat the vettes if they were in GT1...and otherwise porsche could turn the GT2 roadcar into a racecar for the GT1 series if thats allowed, and beat the crap out of the vettes :P
also these porsches were all privateer teams, while the vettes were sort of factory teams (pratt and miller being a sort of "corvette racing" just like prodrive was aston martin racing in 2005)

I usually don't post, today's an exception though;because of this ridiculous post. Christ, why give a shit about the bloody performance of cars? It's childish. Squabbling about the hp/lb ratio or le mans victories of a car or another is not being passionate, it's being blind. Forthermore, why be so narrow minded and hate particular cars, they are just cars; you can't hate one until you drive it. It's silliness, truly.

It's a good thing you seldom post - it appears when you do they are incoherent rantings... ;)

What have you driven that you base your opinions on? ;)

RC plz be so kind to shine your light of wisdom over the figures i jsut presented? :P :wink:

Who cares about laps? ;) Lets see winner / losers board. :P

I would love to see the Z06 tested on the NS by SportAuto.

And a review by Tiff or Jason Plato would be welcome as well...

We would all like to see these tests.. ;)

But will they be honest is the real question... ;)

Rc45, perhaps take some english lessons. I don't need to drive anything to tell you all that it is just bloody trivial, all of it. I'll tell you that the Z06 is the fucking greatest if it really means so much to you, my point is, I don't give a fuck. It's fine that you worship that car, just don't go about insulting others because they don't share your opinion.

cheap way of getting out of it RC, very cheap. Thing is, as i said even in a class lower porsche is very close to the vettes, and since they race in different class there is no winner between them. if u look at class victories though, porsche humiliates corvette completely.
aw man RC after all that stuff about US car mags being or not being biased and all, u give us THIS???
about Tiff and Jaso, of the televised car reviews they are probably the most serious. and the SA Supertest is number-wise the most reliable source of information IMO...so lets jsut hope it'll test the car and then accept the results as true?

What about the M5's lb/hp, its sure much more higher than all this cars and in a straight line performs the same, or the opposite, the Veyron thet has a 4.XX lb/hp and accelerates like hell but in the twisties the story is different, so I don't think these numbers say much. So IMO you're doing the same thing "losers" do just with different numbers. Its just another variable ;)


These are the important numbers

If Ferrari or Lambo or Porsche had a plant to mass produce a car, it would be equally priced, and it would perform the same. But they don't sell quantity, they sell quality.
The Vette, is a car for the mass, besides as its mass produced, it isnt made of the best quality, GM makes cars for the mass. Sure they've made it better each year, but nothing made in a machine has the same quality as a handcrafted product. ;)
If its all about the performance lets talk just about that, and not prices nor interiors.


Cause price/LM wins is totally different, theyre not running stock, the cost of each car is different, besides GM is one of the car companies with most resources, so they can invest a bit more money in that. Advantage to GM :D

ow and if its just price/performance ratio ur talking about, get an Ultima GTR or a Radical or a Caterham or something like htat

If it bothered you that much why reply :)

The Z06 is not the greatest, never has been and never will be. Perhaps YOU need to take some English lessons. That way when you read emoticon peppered sarcy rhetoric on a web forum you wont get you juvenile panties in a wad. :)

Read the topic again: It is simple stating that the numbr are out, and they are good. :)

Imagine for a moment GM did not make just one Corvette with 3 variants.. but did as Porsche and Ferrari do, create mild street, regular street, wild street, uber street and then even race-only versions from $50,000 all the way to $400,000.

Then they would be able to flood each and every clas with multiple versions of cars that are rehomolagate year afetr year to fill every possible category that exists.

You would then also see "class dominance and field dominance" from GM the company.

The reality is they don't - so you have Corvette the CAR versus the entire fields of many manufacturers.. :)

So to once again take a breath of reality, the CAR Corvette took on the Class GT and if I am not mistaken won 2000, 2001, 2002 and then 2004 and then 2005 or something like that? (Can't be bothered to Google these facts.. )

Anyway, it is a case of enetering for X years - and winning X-1 or soemthign liek that.. quite an achievment for a CAR versus entire companies that race multiple classes with multiple pupose engineered race cars ;)

BTW where is Porsches entrant in this class ? ;)

Hardly the same thing.

The cars in the Z06's class offer something those go-carts do not.

Practicality. :)


Otherwise.. guess what all us high performance car nuts with a budget would be driving :)

Common sense my man... common sense ;)

Well, I'm not trying to be funny, but wouldn't a properly engined Elfin Clubman (or a Type-R engined Ariel Atom) smoke everything on that list?

Not to throw gas on the fire.. But brembo... One could also argue the europeans have been to america to learn about engines, given how many of them use american engines in their cars.

Gm makes plenty of good cars in other classes, but only one for performance. But if you want to focus on that level, then you need to think more fiat as the controling interest in ferrari as compared to gm controlling interest in corvette. Then they look roughly similar.

Sure.. up to 150mph.. ;) WHich means that they would dominate the race for - oh say.. 17 seconds :P

Spoken like typical fanboy. :)

No offense but this is utterly rediculous. Comparing the top level car regardless of cost is just retarded. I could make you a car that costs a billion a car personally that would blow everything else away, but what does that prove? That with enough money you can hire the right people to do anything. You need to compare the car to the car in its class. In effect performance wise the f430 and gt40 are in the vettes class(even if price wise theres some descrepency). The enzo is in a whole other class.. Gts versus supercars.

Yet more proof you subscribe to the poser way.. :) ;)

Price seems to be the most important thing for you - and if that is how you were raised, so be it. ;)

I guess the fact that the F430 costs $200,000+ is the most importnt thing. This way only people of a certain station in life are allowed entry. ;)

Some people don't care to join the country club - of course the members all say it's because they can't afford it :P

:)

So the only comparison you have is price then?

Interesting.

Why?
They are both gts, they both have performance as there main objective and perform equivellently, they both use high technology...
Just about the only things I see different are the ferrari has a better interior and the corvette has better reliability.

The enzo is a super car..
The vette and f430 are gt cars.
Entirely different class.

Yet again top of the line is pointless.. If I got someone to back a billion dollar car that does everything the best, does that make me the best car manufacturer? The best at performance? The best at anything really?
No.. at some point you can do almost anything given enough money.

If you want to compare the zo6 to the stradale go ahead.. But it isnt out yet is it?

What does chevy building or not building a supercar have to do with the zo6 compared to the f430? I mean ferrari doesnt make a minivan, but you don't see me considering that part of the equation.

The fact that a $65,000 car can run beat a $200,000 car and run up on the heals of a $400,000 car - but get trounced by a $million dollar is rather more of a bolster for the lower cost car and a damning of the higher priced car ;)

Afterall, the idea is that the more money spent, the better it ought to be. Right?

Well it seems for the same money there is nothing.

For twice the money there is nothing.

For thrice the money there is nothing.

For four time the money there is nothing.

However, around five times the money this get interesting... ;)

It seems that only near 8 times the money is there a marked performance difference.

Again - for you it seems that to be good it must be expensive - but numbers again show otherwise... ;)

hehe

You have some weird ideas man.
When a company produces a product that competes directly with another product(the ferrari f430 and the vette) that doesnt mean they are competing on every product they make. In fact, other then perhaps a cache pushing down or up associating the car with other member cars, the other cars in there fold matter absolute 0. The cars are in the same category cause they are cross shopped. There is no market category called xs top of the line car. People dont go out and buy from the category... If that were the case toyota wouldnt be the top seller in the world for sure. People look for certain charachteristics on cars that pertain to the persons usage thereof. When they are adequately similar they are considered in the same class. The f430 is adequately similar to the vette.

Why would I consider it anyones fault? The zo6 isnt in the supercar class and it isn't supposed to be. It is in the gt and thus the f430s class. Thus it needs to be compared to the f430.

I'll bite :P

Well - we went throurgh this with the C5 Z06 and the 360CS already.

The C5 Z06 blows the F360 into the weeds - and runs neck and neck with the 360CS.

The same seems to be developing in teh C6 Z06 vs F430 battle - as in it blows it away ;) - so no doubt the F430CS will run wheel to wheel with the C6 Z06.

So again proof they are performance class equals.. but price unequals ;)

What has ego got to do with it? GM has again produced a car that is the performance equal of all the cars people want - but few can afford.

That's what it's all about.

In order for you to enjoy this kind of performance, you either have to suck it up and drive the "cheap" Z06 (which it seems you couldn't od - because you are all about image ;)) - or dream, because you don't have the $250,000 to get a car that has the kind of performance you dream of ;)

And if you are stinking rich and want to prove your wealth, knock yourself out ;)

The Challenge is not street legal ;)

Excuse me, has anyone mentioned which car would post a better time on a curvy mkontain pass?

hmmm erm for ronin...if ur comparing 2 cars, ur just comparing those 2 cars, where they stand in their companies' order doesnt matter, ur just comparing those 2 cars nothing else.

now as for the le mans discussion that seems to be kind of forgotten, Corvette makes a race car out of their sports car, so does porsche. The porsche is in a lower class and raced by sort of small independent teams. the vette is in the higher class and raced by a factory-backed team. still the porsche is very close.
the fact u like to ignore is that theyre both race cars based on REGULAR road cars. its not like the GT3 is some hyper race car with just enough practicality to get a license plate, its a normal road car.

ah well at the end of the day i'd still want other cars rather than a vette, cos the vette simply doesnt inspire me as much as those other cars, i dont get really fascinated by the 'vette where other cars do fascinate me. for the 115k euros a Z06 costs here in holland, i could also get me a 2nd hand 993 Turbo, or a lotus exige and rent an appartment for a couple of years...

How the hell is a car sold at the plant modified? Its a seperate model maybe, but neither the stradale or the zo6 are modified. Neither gm nor ferrari are tuner companies or individuals changing others cars here.

Non mass produced only makes a difference if you want a car that no one else has, otherwise its also moot. As for total package thats what is called a matter of opinion. In this case its also one given by a person who a) hasn't reviewed the vette. b) is well known to be bias.

Actually ferrari does say lets do better then its competitors. Not necessarily Chevy. It isn't about ego, its that to sell a product in this world of ours you have to develop a better product then the other guy. Take a simple marketing class and you'll learn that.

For the record I love ferraris.. I dream of owning a 308, irrational though it is. That doesn't change whether the zo6 can be compared to the f430. As for the outcome, I'm not going to comment cause I dont have to make that decision (sadly)

You are excused - and at the current time we have a 7m42s from tyhe Nurburgring... as close to such a mountain pass as we have at the moment - and are awaiting the F430 time for a Northloop lap. :)

But don't hold your breath, the F360 was no where near the C5 Z.. and the F360CS again matched it.

So whether you like it or not, it seems that each generation of Z06 and FxxxCS are pretty evenly matched... ;)

You could call them "performance peers" - but I am sure you won't.. :)

******

BTW.... this thread was not conceived to start a "Z06 beats all" debate. Because anyone with a brain and a pulse knows this is not true... ;)

The thread was simply a way to post a set of numbers that until now have always shown "other" makes at the top of the list... ;) But not any more.. :P

True, but what you seem to forget is that in the Ferrari's case we're talking about an independent magazine test, which by the way (just like the C6's test, had pretty poor acceleration numbers). The C5 Z06's 7:56 time, on the other hand, is a factory claimed time with a factory driver and car. Not quite the same. :wink:

Not that I'm doubting GM's claims, but it simply isn't a good basis for comparison... Different drivers, different day, etc... Even more on a track like the 'Ring, being as long and demanding as it is.


Not that I'm putting the C6 Z06 down. It's a great deal, at least in the U.S. If you're only interested in numbers, it's the way to go. No questions about it. With that said, it lacks (to me) many things that a Ferrari has to offer, like the sound, feel, styling, etc...




On a side note, all this Vette talk got me thinking... I mean, I dream of owning a Ferrari one day but I doubt I'll be able to afford a newer (faster) model. But I'm also interested in track events, where a fast car would be ideal. A cheap fast car that could be also used on the road, but not an everyday car - a track beast, just without all the transportation hassles... Over here, the Vette costs about 115 000 € and has a baaad image - no one will buy it, so the depreciation will be crazy. So yeah, I kinda see myself buying a used one in 6 or 7 years...


Just how bad is the depreciation in the U.S.?

Well - the people who want Z06's in Europe imported them at great expense since the end of 2000. (the 2001 model) :) Some new, some used.

Some are stock, some are modded. Some mild.. and some 800rwhp+ wild.. ;)

The 115,000 € is the C6 Z06 you are referring to.. correct? Well - first off, the car hasn't had a chance to be bought and sold and used value determined,but overall for what it is and the folks that buy it, it will probably see the same depreciation over time that F-Cars and P-Cars suffer from.

You will be alarmed to see how badly F-Cars and P-Cars depreciate in Europe compared to how they keep their value here.

It's all about the scarcity and demand - right?

The fact that the overall quality of an F550 is as good as an F360 Vert seems to make no difference to the market place here.

The F360 Vert still costs more used, than a similar generation F550 (or F575 for that matter).

The 550 cost $220,000 new.. yet you saw them sitting used on dealer floors for $150,000 not selling while a used F360 carried a sticker of $260,000+ during the F360 feeding frenzy.

And truth be told, the F550 is the better more traditional Ferrari than the F360 any day.

So - back to the C6 Z06, you will still need money - lots of it, to get one, used or new. Set your sights on importing a used C5 Z06 from the USA and have a blast for the next 7 years ;)

Yeah, pretty much all of the Vettes that I've seen over here are imported from Germany. That's what makes them cheap - you pay less taxes the older the car is, and few people want Vettes. Hell, I bet that if I walked down the street right now and asked people about the Vette, out of 10, maybe 1 or 2 would know what it is...



Yep.




Yeah, I know. You U.S. people are weird. :lol: I mean, I've seen F430's selling for $300K and more. Seriously, I love the car and would buy it if I had the money, but $300K?! That's just crazy. Again, if I had the money, I could walk into the Ferrari dealership tomorrow and buy a new F430 without the waiting list crap. Gotta love Europe. 8)

And over here, some Porsches actually hold their value better than the Ferraris. The 993 is a good example - it has kept its value very well. The 996, unless it's the Turbo, not so much.



Again, over here things are a bit different, but I see your point. :) As a used car, the 360 is a terrible deal. The 550, on the other hand, is almost a bargain.

But here in Portugal, the GT's hold their value a litle better, though the V8's still have the uper hand. Which is strange, if you think that the 12's are rarer and at least as good. :hmm:

A good 2000 550 will set you about 130, 000 €, while a Modena of the same year will be around 120, 000 € (without options). Not bad, if you consider that these cars actually get driven. :) But in the U.S., you could sell a 2004 360 Spider now for what you bought it. That doesn't happen here.

And in Portugal there's other thing that helps Ferrari's resale values. They are RARE. So far this year, only 14 new cars have been sold.




Yeah, for sure. A 2002 C6 Cabrio goes for about 65/70 K €, with all the options. But new, it costs around 100, 000 €... That's crazy depreciation, but still a lot of money.


But I'm just thinking out loud, really. I don't even have a license yet... It's just an idea that pleases me - having a street legal track car. The Vette is just another option... And for now, studying the market is all I can do.
Besides having good grades to get a job with a decent pay check, obviously. :mrgreen:



And sorry for the off topic. :oops: