F430 Supertest results
 

NS: 7.55 min
HHR: 1.12,7
0-100: 4.0
0-160: 8.4
0-200: 12.6

car equipped with optional Corsas and CCM

i´m a bit dissapointed as i estimated such a time with the std. tires and NOT with the optional Corsas... :?
with almost 500hp, e-diff and all the other state of the art techs, hmmmm, i´m afraid they still haven´t sortet out their suspension "issues"...

^^^ :lol: :lol: That time can`t be real . Of course the test was made by a german car (very) biased magazine , so....... :mrgreen:

Suspension problems ? :? In my knowledge the Skyhook is the most advanced system available .

Do you know something else ? :?

...the mag will come out tomorrow in germany and i´ll get my copy a day later, this info is from a source of mine who gets the results always some days in advance, the test itself took place when the Radical set the (unofficial) lap record at NS, a buddy of mine was there when HvS testdrove the F430 for the Supertest at NS the second time, at the first attempt there were some problems - don´t know details, a Ferrari technican was there as well, it was NO car from Ferrari Germany but one of Fiorano, with italian plates, a yellow one, on the second occasion, the Radical test day with closed circuit, the weather was perfect - therefor the record from the Radical - so weather-issues cuoldn´t have been the problem...

äähhhmm, don´t know how familiar u´re with SA and the persons behind this mag, incl. chief editor HvS who does all supertests, well i know him in person and he´s definitely one of the few who´re NOT biased on any brand, e.g. i can tell u that HvS loves Ferraris and he used to race Ferrari Challenge - u see - not Porsche Cup :wink:

when it´s been AMS or whatever german mag i could have said "probably yes" but not with SA, sorry... :)

we´ll see when the full test is out - of course will get the mag, scan it and translate the most imp parts - check "mag-scans" the upcomming days...

Waiting for the article , or should I say the translation ? :wink:

This is gonna be a very interesting read :)

Thanks in advance for the scan and the transaltion parts st-anger but it's true that we could have wait an even better time from the F430. 7:55 is not that far from the 997 Carrera S wich is heavier and has 135 bhp less ...

Interesting.... Although I still can't understand how Porsches can be SO much faster around the ring. Quite frankly, I find it embarrassing for Ferrari to be so far off the pace.

Can't wait for the scan! :D

^^^ ditto :mrgreen:

yupppp... totally agree..
if u put a 997s vs a 430 on any track, other than the ring, the 430 will rape it no matter what.. heck, it is faster than gallardo,, and every magazine praise for it's handling

...i tend to say: let´s wait for the real F430 competitor, the 997 Turbo :mrgreen:

wow, this is a lot slower then i had expected :shock:

its still definately fast... but when comparing vs. a 996 GT3 (not even the RS) the C5 Z06... the Ferrari isnt anywhere near the level i would've expected with the new manatinio and e-diff... the 430 still has some road manners built into its suspension compared to the hardcore Enzo... but i guess still not enough to make it through NS as fast as it could...

i definately wonder what the problems they were having with the car during the first test, and im looking forward reading the scans. i wonder if its race-tuned suspension is just too stiff?

oh, and im definatley looking forward to the SA supertest of the 997 Turbo :twisted:
thanks for the heads up :)

Hm thats dead slow :? I couldnt care less but there is absolutly no fucking way it laps only a second faster then the CS :? All that power at NS....something was wrong.......but oh well :)

Well all that shit is useless when you hit the track :wink: And I hope they turn every single possible driving aid off when the did the lap.

Oh come on! You can't possibly compare the 997s and the F430... the very fact that you're even doing so shows what a joke Ferrari is around the ring :roll: As st-anger said, the 997 Turbo will be the real competitor, and by the looks of it, its gonna absolutely RAPE the F430. And all this is coming from a diehard Ferrari fan... :(

And by the looks of it, the F430 still isn't that much (if at all) faster around a "proper" racetrack than any eqivalent Porsche. IMO, Ferraris have never been faster than Porsches, but instead have always offered greater driving pleasure. Each have their own virtues.

Sorry man but thats rubbish.

360 and 996TT where head to head in every single test they did...

360CS was the better in the Vs. GT3 battle.

You write off the 430 just cause of this lap at NS? :?

whatever :roll:

...unfortunately it (again) really seems to be that we can´t count in the NS for comparison - the playground are again just such unbelievable boring tracks like Fiorano, HHR, Monza,.....whatever - we had that discussion endless times before, but let me correct the one or other thing here

360: 1:15,1
TT: 1:14,6
and i won´t add here that the TT was 13sec faster............ :niet:

the other thing that keeps me wondering is why ppl still compare GT3 and CS :?:

imho: GT3 vs 360 and GT3-RS vs 360 CS

but i´m definitely with u Alex, although the NS time should have been better we can´t say the 430 is crap...
it´s just like that - i have quite some insight into industry pool session and therefore i know that Ferrari is more and more at the ring and i also know that they frequently rent workshops as they won´t show up in Meuspath where all the NS testing equipment and know-how is located, for "i don´t know" reasons which is a bit arrogant imo, so everyone expected a "real good" lap time due to the more testing/experience but well........... :|

Hah - what a dissapointment. The acceleration was there but it cant even beat a Gallardo at Hockenheim with corsa tyres - that is nothing but horrible. Imagine what the Gallardo SE with corsa tyres and its shorter gear ratios will do to this thing, without even mentioning the 997 Turbo :roll: . Sorry, but the F430 got Gallardowned :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I recommend you to watch some Best Motoring videos to see how fing FAST Ferrari`s are compared to Porsche`s :twisted:

ferrari is like honda but without vtec

If you think Best Motoring has anything to do with objective testing you have little clue. It's entertaining, but those laps have as much reference value as the Top Gear laptimes. Little to none.

thanks god for vtec and FERRARI

AMEN :!:

luckily i´m not the only one seeing it exactly like that :good:

st anger you see this :fist:

Best Motoring is VERY objective when testing NON Japanese cars .
And I do have a lot of clues , I reccomend the 2000 edition , Battle In Suzuka , and after you watch it , will talk.

Ooooo , actually it won`t be anything to talk about.

:lol: :lol:

:? golfiste what do you think your contribution to this discussion is? looks to me like ur asking for instaban...read the rules no personal attacks, and especially not when there isn't even a reason to be even the slightest bit upset...

as for the time, i too expected ferrari to be faster, and i too cant wait for hte 997TT's time on the 'Ring :D

i was joking sorry :oops:

ow k i must have a bad sense of humour...
its just in the past we've been having some trouble here at JW with normal discussions turning into flame wars for nothing, so the no personal attack-rule was imposed...
but well lets get back on-topic :) i dont know that much about best motoring, its bin a couple of years since i last saw anything by them cos the japanes annoys me, but i dont think you can get more objective than SA...1 driver who knows the track absolutely by heart...im assuming he goes flat-out in every car, so then its as comparable as you can reasonably expect a test to be :)

:|

can´t follow your sense of humor as well and this is definitely NOT the kind of discussion i´m into :!:
maybe - when u´re done with flaming and joking - u could form a normal english sentence contributing in an adult discussion.

thank you.................

Well knowing how the 360 behaves at high speeds I'm not surprised at all that the TT was faster. Talking with some 360 Challenge drives its a sensitive bitch on the limit, it's fast but it takes a lot of fine skill to keep it from snapping on you.

@ GUCOM

BMI`s principal tester is Matahoru Kurosawa aka Gan San a very experienced driver and Ex F1 pilot.

They test on real circuits :wink: even Formula 1 like Suzuka, and when they test
non japanese cars they are objective , unlike their european counterparts.

Probably St Anger our Porsche expert wasn`t happy at all to see Porches beaten on track by older Ferrari`s , in circumstances defavourable for the cars produced in Maranello . meaning the car with the fastest time had the last position on the start grile.

But hey , just watch the video :mrgreen:

Hmmmm.... like the time a black 360 Modena got raped in a straight line by a turbo? Or the time the F430 barely won against the 380 hp GT3 RS clubsport? And besides, I was referring to track times. I really don't care about acceleration. These cars are supposed to be made for racing, so its a little scandalous that Ferraris are that much slower around tracks than Porsches. The two brands may be neck to neck on a short circuit, but the gap only widens (in favor for Porsche) with a longer track.

Listen, as you probably know, I LOVE Ferrari, and its not like I'm trying to diss them. All I'm doing is being completely objective. The numbers do not lie. And don't believe this "german magazines are completely biased" crap, because blaming others never really gives much weight to an argument.

D00de, the BM guys drive like shit, but they drive all cars equally shitty. I am amazed at how you put top gear and BM in the same boat...little to non reference? Sorry but if you think that way then I wont even bother to have a discussion.... :?

I always saw BM as entertainment but little to non reference like top gear? :?

It will be faster then the F-car. Porkers will always lap the ring faster then their couterpart F-car, is there even a logical reason for that not to be the case?

Mate, your being as objective as me on a drunk saturday night.

I cant believe you even mention the F430 Vs. Clubsport "battle". Did you watch that even? Did you follow the discussion when that video was posted? lol man.....

And when did that rappage of the 360 take place? Damn all I remeber is them having a slight difference but to the eye a car length or two looks like something major.

You say a second difference at short track somehow makes a car that much faster? Do you know what goes into setting a proper lap time? Some two auto mag reviewrs going at it having only 20 hours experiance in each car = nothing.

Like RC once said.....damn Im quoting RC here.......all the new sports cars Z06s, 991s, F-Cars are run so close together that its all down to the driver to make up the difference.

That Audi junk wont be able to do jack shit to either the F430 or 997TT....Audi should stick to building Audis.

Well mate sorry but BM drivers drive like shit most of the time :wink:

However it is completly wrong to put BM in the same boat as Top Gear.


BM can give you a good idea of a cars performance but nothing concrete.

hmmm, whenever i see a BM "comparison" there´re......i don´t know 4 to 6 different drivers....... and all in all it´s more or less only show - i mean RAMMIUS i don´t know how skilled u are at the track meaning how many km´s your have done in sportscars - i can tell u i have done some 100k km in cars like they test there therefore i think i can rank a driver just seeing him driving quite good as i´m not the worst driver myself - and when i see some of their sliding around and just catastrophic car control and feel - well sorry but they should better attend a decent racing school first and then try again.
i don´t know if u´d be in but i bet any youngster out of our motorsport program would beat them head to head easily........easily!!!
u´re talking like u´re quite into all that stuff but unfortunately i don´t see your point why u rate them so high? can u please comment on that in your upcomming post, don´t get me wrong, i definitely don´t just want to prove u wrong i´m only interested on the details of your estimation :)

another thing i clearly remember - their chief test driver Kurosawa´s been to date the only tester complaining in that form on the CGT - well, what a pitty when he can only handle the soft boiled cars with all their el. aids - it´s always quite funny seeing that they ALL leave PSM / TC on and not off :wink: quite a good indicator on how ambitious they are when they want to lap a clocked time :lol: - what he criticised on the GT is just ridiculous and then he even bought one for himself........ :roll:
it´s been just a pain in the ass when i saw his clocked lap at Suzuka, he´s been FAR away from the limit of the car especially on the brake !!!

personally i don´t have a problem when they do......whatever...... and when EVERY Porsche would loose even against a Ford Transit in their tests :lol: it´s like that, that industry don´t care at all and so do we, the only independent respected source for comparison is Sport Auto and their Supertest and i couldn´t think of any argument against that.

of course i´m open for all questions on all this and would be more than happy to participate in that discussion further :P

You must be joking :shock: :shock: :shock:

What the hell are you saying?????

They are professional racers. Some of them have won at Le Mans, others have won the GT500 and the Super Taikyu.

sorry m8 but thats simply a stupid comment, i dont think its necessary for me to explain why... :roll:

it is simple whait is yellow and comes from the rising sun is banned on jabba

... i think without a racecar background they wouldn´t let them drive those tests and it definitely look good on the paper BUT i think we needn´t talk about the quality of their driving in the tests which is more or less a "let´s go out have fun" thing and not 110% concentrated on a real lap time :wink:
personally i think the main aim of BM should be entertaining track driving - and what´s so bad about that anyways - but again - this driving and the result is far away from a decent test and a decent test is ONLY a valid lap time when talking about such cars...
compare this with e.g. a lap of TG´s "Stigg" i mean this guy is also a bit too much sideways for my taste in their videos - therefore slower...but well...

in the end they may be all good drivers and even when they´ve been F1 drivers (which has nothing to do with sports car driving :wink: ) - in their "shows" their hard work for a good lap time ranking cars is more or less only show... :)

Stupid comment? How? Audi should stop trying to build super cars.

Doode listen to the man. They fucking suck! But they still arent as bad as Stig and top gear lap times.

There are some medium drivers there , but they only get the toys , the real cars are driven by competent drivers , in Japan this is how stuff works .
Maybe he`s not the typical european ass kisser , and the guy knows a thing or two :wink: about how a sports car should be ?

I`ll give him credit :wink:
And I think he bought the car before testing that one .

Don`t mind if I ask , but how many laps of Suzuka do you have ? :roll:
Maybe he knows a little bit more than you , especially on that track , maybe the brakes didn`t reach the optimum temperature , or maybe he was just trying to know the car .



First you said
and then


so these japanese drivers are quite good , if they manage to powerslide with PSM/TC put ON. :lol:

Not to mention that some don`t have nothing to switch off : the F40 and F50 that beat the crap out of Porsche .

Of course St Anger , youi`re a Porsche employee , very good for you , I don`t expect you to be objective :wink:

Take care

/\/\/\ Why are you even arguing mate? Do you watch how they drive? I couldnt care less if Micheal Shcumaher himself drive on BM the way they drive is not the proper way period!

And for your information most times Porkers win in BM.

^^^ nobody is arguing man :) just a decent conversation

I agree that some of them aren`t the best drivers but the others know their business.

I HIGHLY recommend (probably you have in the vault :wink: ) the 2000 edition with Ferrari vs Porsche .

Check it :wink:

...u´re trying to tell me he is the straightedge what´s a sports car and which is not ???
he´s been the first complaining on the GT - on points all the others - also including Ferrari btw, how strage :wink: - told it´s just perfect....???....sorry but i can´t see your point here ?!

lol, of course i have NONE at Suzuka, but when i hear your comments i think u also have NONE experience on track driving at all - no warm brakes??? trying knowing the car??? all that on a clocked time??? my friend it´s better u stop arguing on things u´re probably a bit out-of knowledge but of course u can keep on, i won´t forbid it... :)

isn´t it like that ???
hope u know that systems like PSM allow a certain amount of transversal slip, calculated on the tires grip level, so u CAN go sideways in a Porsche up to a certain level - 17% if u want to know precise - but i think we agree that even 10% is NOT good for a good lap time and i haven´t talked about powerslides meaning slip percentages of over 30% - but i guess u´re also familiar with this...

definitely, i´m 110% with u that a F40,50 beats the sh** out of most of the Porsches, i never told anything different...
BUT the key word is "most" :wink:

well, u can see it this way, ok, seems like u don´t know me then :wink:
my work has nothing to do with my opinion on cars - u can believe that or not for sure - but again i´d like to invite u to give me some profound knowledge on WHY u think u can hold such declarations ?!

maybe u can tell me something about your background so that we can intensify the discussion a bit, would be my pleasure :)

I think you`re forgeting one important thing : a lot of editors complained about the stiffnes of the clutch pedal .
Maybe with his background , Gan San knows a little bit more , than your average Joe.


Excuse me mister Porsche expert , but CGT has PCCB ( Porsche Composite Ceramic Brakes) they should be warmed to get the maximum performance out of them.
Correct me if i`am wrong.

YES trying to know/fell the car . Let me guess , if you`ll drive an MC 12 for the first time around a racing track , you`ll go full power from the first lap ? :lol: , or you`ll try to see how the brakes works, how it turns and so on.

An F40 from 1988 versus a 1998 GT2 , (isn`t the Porsche 10 years younger ?), the Porsche starting in face of the Ferrari and losing , similar power & torque figures.

That`s one example.


Well I see why your nick it`s St Anger :wink: you`re becoming irritated .

I mean , your Jabba`s Porsche expert and you`ve driven the CGT , so how can I say that these japanese have objective tests , you`ve seen 1 or 2 power sliding with a NSX and now you`re certain that they all are annoying shity bastards.

I say you should try and make the difference between them. Just a hint :)

... :bah: hmmm, i´m sorry to see your willingness for a decent discussion is retrogressive with every post, but well...

...i mean........u must be joking comming with that "complaint" - "the stiffness of the clutch" :mrgreen:

buddy.......ever been in a race car ???
most likely not - i think u also have no idea about the PCCC - along with all the editors complaining about it, i recommend to ask ppl knowing at least a bit about such systems and then u may decide again.......deal ???
:wink:



indeed it has - completely forgot :lol:

as i´m not becoming irritated - why should i, i know i´m right and 20 years in automotive industry and "quite some" experience are on my side, sorry - it´s my pleasure to explain u the one or other thing HOW such a test is carried out normally, and let´s take the GT example - u wanted to tell me the brakes were somehow "cold", ok, as a skilled driver with F1 background he definitely knows that u have to brake ceramic brakes warm within a intro lap, this is no problem on the GT as the get warm quite soon as this is a road car and not a racing one were the rotors need more constant heat than the PCCBs, first point, second point and more important one, the tires, as u seem to know quite a lot u surely know that the P0-spec Michelins need at least 2.4 bar to "work" properly, i´m again sure someone told mr. Kurosawa that - and then with warm brakes and tires he could have braked later before many many corners but after the test i think he said he isn´t that familiar with the GT - and here we are, the next point, beeing familiar with the car, i think u won´t tell me that Kurosawa wanted to "get familiar" with the GT on his clocked lap and therefore braked "a bit" earlier every now and then, maybe it´s better when u FIRST get warm tires/rotors and used to a car before u want to compete against others :!:

well, am i right or not ???
since u haven´t answered my questions on all that i think it´s a "yes" and then it´s more or less obvious to me that u can only re-tell what u see and read on tv/mags - which isn´t a bad thing of course - but then u´re not open for some different insights from the real world - well your bad :|

last, i think we should definitely correct that as i never said they are "all annoying shity bastards" MY discussion base was and is that those test have nothing to do with a benchmarking of sportscars and are just entertaining for the mass, i think we both agree here and if not, well...end of discussion i´m afraid, as i know it´s like that and u just think u know without any background and i can´t go into greater details with so less knowledge on such complex things, sorry...

nevertheless, looking forward to another constructive discussion with u on another topic as u seem to have a really firm opinion on things which is basically a good thing :)