mclaren F1's do handle badly - proof!
 

http://www.dpccars.com/car-movies/07...eMclarenF1.htm

in the second video; you can clearly see the car just lets loose w/out warning; as he tries time and time again to hold a slide...

BTW, im sure the F1 fan base will love the video :P

I am sure it has nothing to do with the handling of the car and everything with the handling of the driver. Looks like he really has no idea what to do with the car, and don't forget this is his first test drive with the car, so he doesn't have an idea how the car is going to react.
And his wife or GF is really annoying. :twisted:

^^^

a typical fan boy responce "it cant be the car, its the driver"

in responce to that, look at the way he handles the car, he has some serious driving experience... the speed of his reflexes is very quick, his downshifting; the way he grasps the wheel.

but go ahead, and think its just the driver, or the weight distro with a passenger.

what you see in this video is the exact same thing i've been talking about for quite some time; with direct contact with a licenced racer who has one.

seems like too much coincidence to me 8)

Yes, and Tiff Needell, a known and experienced driver, loved the handling of the F1. He got amazingly excited when driving that car. At the Pistonheads forum there's an owner of the F1, simply adoring it. The character might not be to everybodies taste, but claiming the F1 is a bad handling car from such video is kinda funny. You see the driver in this video just slams on the gas without any attempt to get some grip. Doesn't show too professional. I can't see if the track is moist, or whatever the circumstances are....

That guy seemed to have a bit more talent than your average driver, to put it on him is kind of silly in my opinion. As for him "trying time and time again to hold a slide", I don't really think that was the case, it looked like he was just out having fun and pushing the car, and scaring the shit and piss out of his girl haha.

~lotus...

ah, another fanboy responce :P

its so painfully obvious; but go ahead and think the way you do... but no other 600 hp/ 3000 lb. (or lesS) car i've seen behaves like that even with a judicsous throttle

~nick

he eventually learned that he couldn't... yet even after spinning some time after she says "no spinning, i hate spinning" he still tries to do a roll-on drift; and it goes right around.

the slides he tried at the beginnning were snap oversteer, then severe understeer...

I am not a hughe fan of the F1, so it's not typical fan boy response. As I said to me it looks like the problem is the driver and not the car. And I can imagine it is because it's his first testdrive. And you don't hear me saying I would do better when driving this car! :D
And please don't take it up too personal, I don't attack you :wink:

^^^^^^ oh trust me, i dont take it personal; i've just finally found some proof to back up my claims and i'll make damn sure to use it hehe :o 8) :D

It does look as if there is a severe lack of response from the steering wheel while trying to hold the slides and the violent way it flicks the car in the wrong direction. I know alot of people tend to have problems with high horsepower cars but in this case it may be the high horsepower car :wink:

insane acceleration through 2nd and 3rd gear however

I don't give a shit how bad it handles...why??...coz that bitch is just so annoying I closed that video.

yes, it is some proof; you just choose to look at it from a biased eye. If the video showed something different, i still would've posted, and said.... "I was wrong, look how well this handles!"

I really don't think it's anything conclusive... I doubt the McLaren is a car you can just jump right into and go off and pull some D1-esque drifts for miles, which is what it sounds like you expect him to be able to do.

no, of course not D1 drifts.....

first, it doesnt have the lock to do that... but I'm very sure that every other supercar out there from teh Jag XJ220, Vector W8, Pagani crapola F, Enzo, CGT, Ford GT, F430, etc. etc. all are able to give warning where the limit is, and let you control the car with a slide; and catch.

even the SLR you could run the slide.... still with quite some wheel effort.

which is my point.

a car where you can feel the limit better allows for approaching those limits more kandidly. on a track, if you cannot feel it, you might be losing 2-3-4 seconds per lap because you dont know whats going to happen if you stradle the limits.

so many people claim they want a better handling car; not some "american garbage" or whatever that is "only fast in a straight line".... so they take their GTi over a Z06, or such a car... well ,clearly you would want that GTi over the Mclaren F1 (you as in those people)

how much more even do you want it? there was only one section where you could hear/see bumps, and that was when he was on the straightaway high speed run.

and finesse on the gas, i urge you to watch the video again, he starts right off trying that; just to get pwned by the handling of that car....

minor snap, catch, throttle.... but its suddenly heavy understeer.
minor snap, big snap, catch, around.... rinse repeate

Dude, this was (IIRC) his first test drive of the car, I doubt anyone could master such a machine on their first try, let alone on a rather uneven surface as he was on with a screaming bitch beside him.

That's the point you seem to be missing. This video is far from an accurate respresentation of what the car can and cannot do.

^^^
yet other people (EG Jeremy Clarkson) are able to slide the CGT on his first try... and many others with other exotic supercars with similar, or more power.

His first try? Man, it's a TV show, of course they're not going to show you his failed attempts. He's lost control in cars a hell of a lot less powerful than a CGT before.

If you want to go by TV shows, then the McLaren must be a pretty damn good car, since Tiff adores it, and he had no problem running the shit out of it.

Women..hahaha..."look there orange is also on the steering wheel, how cute". I would hardly call this a benchmark test, I prefer to believe Tiff and other professional drivers opinions then just by watching a video of ana amtauer driving it. In the right hands it would do better, though that is not the sole purpose of the car.

nick

tif never once tested its handling limits FYI... the goose bumps from him came when ever he came on throttle, which i've never once doubted the mighty M power engine ;)

and i just said "for example".... there are others i know, and have seen do such crazy things on thier first try... sure they spin too.... but on thier first day/ few hours they've got a serious hang of the car in such ideal testing conditions

Just in case ppl fogot Tiff's review :wink:

He also drove one on a track for Fifth Gear's "Greatest Cars" show (along with the F40 and Modena), which is the segment I was referring to.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...98682779462372

And PS. Tiff did push pretty damn hard through the corners in that review 5vz posted, and he made several comments about the handling as well.

I've you've ever been to a track, you can tell he's not pushing it, hence my comment. running the limit of adhesion on a track is quite a bit noisier ;) BTW trackdays are fun!

...... and notice when he says oversteer, the car really isn't exactly sidways more then the guy in the video could successfully get.

the ending sideways bit was very twitchy.. but succesful, but still not as impressive as his /others sidways work in many many other cars. the balance on the basic F1 just isn't htere.... the LM is likely different...

hrmm.

have any of you actually driven one?

nope. so this whole argument is pointless

lets not also mention the fact that the car is old, very old in supercar years, and technology.

the macca is a awesome car, even today, and it was way ahead of its time. the fact it was a major automotive milestone (as far as super/hypercars go) is undeniable.

tiff seemed to like it. but i havent had any experience with it so im not gonna say either way.

its a great car, it was then, still is, but lets not forget its age, and forget the fact no one in this thread has driven one, so honestly no one here can make even a guess on how it handles.

The car that Tiff drives is also the XP4 prototypes, not the full-on road car. The dive and squat is quite alarming on the track, more so than you'd see on something like a Boxster or a V8 Vantage.

Handles badly! what?? Based on this video!!

Are we being serious here?

All this video is showing is the guy having fun with the car nothing more nothing less!

I bet if we went back to the year 1994 when this car was released, we wouldn't be having this conversation on how supposedly bad it handles, because we might have forgot how far we have gotten in car performance technology. Being so critical about how the handling of a car like this is not what exoticars are about!

To me its about 3 things; innovation, looks, and power.

And this car succeeds in all three!

Handles badly might be a harsh word to say...

hard to handle good might be a better way saying it! I'd too have trouble hadnling a 600bhp supercar...

True it dives and squats but it's Tiff's favorite Supercar anyway :wink: And I doubt that he would love a bad handling car ...

The one he drives in the Greatest Cars clip is a regular production F1, albeit with the high downforce kit.

the only way to possibly make this point regarding the video is to see one of him driving each one of the cars you mentioned and try to do the same things with those cars

even then if he drives another car better.. then it suits him better but it doesnt mean that it handles better than all others.

yould you NOT buy a car based on incar footage of this ass driving with his annoying wife? i definitly wouldnt. nor will i form any opinions based on it.

like its been said before this argument is pointless and there is no proof about anything... no proof about the handling of the car, his abilities, nor intentions in the video

anyway... whats the story behind this dude anyway.. did he win the lottery or soemthing? lol.. that will me one day >: )

hopefully <: \

According to someone who knows him personally on fchat: "he is the son of the man who wrote the protocall for the ATM machines. Dan "aquired" (INTERESTING STORY)the company which went public and whalla".

He doesn't own the F1 anymore either, he's now got a Zonda S, on top of several other high-end ubercars.

lucky guy, thats awesome

one day... one day.. lol

Edited my post ^

Turns out there's another Dan Kennedy who happens to be quite a bit older haha, so yea, hence my earlier mistake.

A video clip cannot accurately convey how a car drives, IMO. Whilst it can give a notion and provide the viewer with an idea, I'd much rather reserve such comments until I've had a go in one myself (well, here's hoping).

Thats the answer I was looking for.

I think u got this one scrwed up Nth. Yes I am a fan of the F1, because of the engineering aspect, but I am also an unbiased person.

I cant remember but didnt the F1 win some LM races back in the day. How many good LM race cars do you know that were based of off bad handling road cars?

I think the F1 is just a handful to drive, not a bad handling car. I dont think anyone on this board as seen videos of people consistently hold a Carrera GT in a slide. Not just a tail flick........ A slide. I dont see anyone calling it a bad handling car.....just a handful to drive.

I dont think the F1 is the best handling car but to say its bad is terrible assumption. Apparently its twitchy.....but so is the Carrara GT, apprarently its unforgiving at the limits.....so is the Carrera GT.

But for some reason we love these twitchy, unforgiving cars and personally I would rather have an F1 over any supercar ever developed......with the Zonda F and Ferrari F50 coming in a close 2-3 :D

They cahnged the aerodynamics significantly to win that one ;)

Your "proof" is mediocre at best. A bad quality video of some random guy (ok, he seems to know what he's doing) sliding all over the place. I take Tiff's assessment over that one. I'd take the assessment from an actual owner (posting at Pistonheads) over yours, sorry. Like I said, you can see crap in the video you posted. How's the surface, what are the conditions, etc?

I'm sure the F1 is quite a bitch to master...but that doesn't make it a bad handling car. It's an early 90s car, of course it is not as polished as the SLR, Veyron, CGT etc. 20 years of development will always show. It would be sad if current supercars wouldn't have improved so much. But for its time it was a masterpiece, and it's still impressive today.

I'm not the one with the fanboy response here...your topic smells from your dislike for this car ;) I once saw a video of a guy crashing his F50 at pathetic low speeds. Must be a bad handling car :twisted:

F1 LM ;)

You can also get the downforce package on the regular F1 as well.

http://www.jabbasworld.net/photopost...stfu_vader.jpg

It´s natural, he is just applying too much power when turning in a damp surface. The video doesn´t prove anything.

A regular car will not do that, but a car with 627hp and a weight of little more that a ton....

That's Dan Kennedy in the video...and some stupid GF.

As much as I like reading nth vs. everyone else :lol: and would love to play devil's advocate, I gotta' agree with the masses here...Dan doesn't know what he's doing.

The problem he's having is maintaining the slip angle of the car. He's nailing the throttle to break traction, but once it does, he's letting off again, causing the car to grip again. Typical beginner drift problem. So, what you're seeing is the car fighting between the threshold of grip and slip. You've got these huge rear tires on the thing, so if you want the car to slip/drift, you've got to apply a fair amount of power. Once you let off, the tires bite.

He also looks like he's adding too much steering input when he tries to break traction. By doing that, the car goes into a tight spin when it loses traction, but that's not what Dan looks like he wants. It looks like he wants to do a big donut (drift a big circle), so, he lets up on the gas to stop the spinning, in hopes that it will give him the chance to dial out steering and do a bigger donut. But when he does that, the tires bite, he doesn't have enough throttle to break the rear tires and he pushes.

I had this problem on my old...Corolla. haha. Now hear me out...drifting the AE86 was a blast. However, when I rebuilt it for high power, I had to relearn to drive the car. Dicking around in a skidpad, I had the same problems that Dan is having in the video. I would hit the accelerator and turn the steering and start pushing because I didn't have enough power to break the rear tires loose. Then, the turbo would kick in and break rear traction...but then...I would have too much steering input and the car would spin out. If I lifted on the throttle, the tires would bite again, and I would push. Dan's situation is the same, but he's being awfully rough with the throttle, rather than modulating it. If he tried harder, he could do the big drift because the motor is n/a and the power is linear and right there. Whereas I struggled at first, because of the turbo lag the car had.

In the end, nth...YOU'RE WRONG!! :wink:

Although I do think the McLaren is probably harder to drive, I don't think it's a poor handling car by any means... :wink:

Maybe he should have given me the McLaren and he could practice in the Corolla... :lol:

Oh come on nth... SURE the F1 may not be the best supercar in your opinion, but you cannot just say that it doesnt handle.. I can't check the video at the moment.

And you really can't expect to drive ANY high powered car at it's limit the first time you sit in the drivers seat..

Not to mention the car isn't really setup for power sliding.. its almost along the lines of drifting an formula 1 car.


No I am not a McLaren F1 fan boy ;p

:shock: this is a dream :drool: :drool: Navigation looks cool too :lol: Thanks a lot for the video. :wink:

im not too keen on the F1, only thing i like about it is its engine...i saw that guy on tv once, with that same car on some car programme...bought a ferrari when he was like 20...i'd say he was just trying to scare his ''im gonna shoot u if u dont shut the f**k up" wife, but his reactions were really instinctive...anyhoo i wud've spent my money on a ford gt, 430, v8 vantage, gt 500e and a house instead of the mclaren :roll:

Well, he got the McLaren back when it came out and none of those cars were out back then, unless you're talking about the classic GT500 and not the new one that's out. The McLaren is actually quite "vintage" isn't it? :wink:

Not only is this a Stan, your arguments also don't make any sense, at all. Like a lot of people said before, this is Dan Kennedy's first drive and he's just having fun and scaring his wife. Nothing more, nothing less.

By the way, what's so great about his downshifting? I don't see any double declutching, not even heel-and-toe rev-matching. At one point he even locks the rear wheels while shifting down to first gear and letting out the clutch too abruptly. True, his reflexes are quick, but that alone doesn't make anyone a good driver.

http://www.motorworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40813

I have to agree with tiff when he said this good handling car.
This will slay most current supercars maby not the veyron in a straightline.
And the man in the video is just playing with his new toy and tryin it out.
:D :o

Sorry, but there's only one obvioust thing in the vid: the driver can't handle the car. His steering/throttle coordination is all wrong ...
@nthfinity: start watching tiff's review at 6tm minute, there's plenty of on the limit stuff (8:30 is most interesting).
All in all: when the driver is not on the same level as the car, interesting things happen - and people start blaming the car, usually.

oh, i've watched it many times @ every fanboy ;)

and so Dan Kenedy is just an idiot who can't drive? look at his technique.

I base my opinions on DIRECT contact with those who have driven the so called infallable F1, and those who have owned the F1.

the Bugatti EB110 dont suffer this issue, the F40 doesn't suffer this issue, the Vector W8 doesn't, the Jag XJ220 doesnt; so saying "well, its old tech by modern standards" is just stupid.

And BTW, I knew so many would disagree with this standpoint.... what suprises me is thenumber of people that seem to have switched sides.

oh, and don't believe everything you read on the Intardweb oh... and the LM is a different car, i stil say the F1 is a poor handling unbalanced car even with the LM aerokit, unless the suspension is reworked... perhaps then it behaves differently... but most F1's aren't LM's, or GTR's etc.

lol here comes the 'intardweb' comments...

And nth, no one has said the F1 is infallable.

Having watched the video earlier today, I have to say that using the word "technique" is a stretch of the word...at least to me, as it implies some skill. I saw very little, if ANY skill in how Dan was driving in the video.

While I know there are those that say the F1 is flawed in the ways you have pointed out, I think it's a stretch to say it's a poor handling car. I think it's a likely a difficult car to drive, but like someone said earlier, so is the CGT. But it is rewarding when driven correctly.

But you know...I've never driven it, so this is all basically based on what I've read and seen. Although there weren't any problems during this ride:

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/D...LarenRide.html

But yeah yeah yeah...nth is gonna' say that's the GTR. :D

Ok Nth, you say you have talked to owner(s) of the F1, etc...well I took it upon myself to pose this as a question to the resident F1 owner over on Pistonheads.com, probably one of the most knowledgable people about the F1 on the internet (and one who obviously has extensive experience with the car) and a very nice guy, you should ask him a question about the F1, he'll most likely answer if you aren't a dick about it. Here's what he said:

I think flemke's response means more than anyone else's since not only has he actually DRIVEN the car (unlike I'd imagine everyone in this topic), but he also OWNS one. Yes, it has flawed handling...if you've read any of what he's said about the car he doesn't claim it to be perfect...but has that kept him from saying its one of the best cars he's driven on many occasions, nope! :D

Nth, you aren't taking any consideration on the drivers part. you don't know anything about the driver, you ASSume that it is the car. If you look the runway is damp, he did just get it, he is out having fun, the g/f is saying don't spin (thus he is trying), listen to the throttle, etc. you can't win this battle. :wink: