Fair points about the results of differently skilled people driving the Jesus-mobile ;)

Well, if you insist on facing the wrath of the GT-R lovers... but it's ok - btw, haven't you noticed how much more lively the site gets when people have a common "enemy" to fight? hehe :P

I guess the roots of my opinion were in the decades before I moved to the US... in a time when I used to view any sports car with an automatic as instantly a non-sprots car ;)

A very European viewpoint you might say - well, thats the thing - I "judge" the car buyer based on the car bought.

So if someone buys a Camry, I say "good choice if you are on a bdget, need room, good mileage and want the car to go on and on for years, you needed a family commuter, so you bought a family commuter".

Now, if that same person buys a Camry Solera Automatic, i call them a POSER - as the car is PRETENDING to be a sportish car with the 2 doors and swoopy lines and stuff, bu tis just a 2 door verison of the 4 door commuter Camry.

I am of the opinion that the person who is buying the Camry Solera is doing so purely based on the "looks" and wants to be seen in what they percieve to be an image car.

Harsh or not, I have viewed automatic floatem boatem Corvettes as no different to the Camry Solera over the years - whether they be C3's C4's or C5's - and I took an instant dislike to the Corvette Coupe I tried in 1998 - so much so that I began to almost despise anyone who bought that wallary bloated bland lloking car if it had an automatic (I know the auto is good for drag racing, but thats not the point of a sprts car now is it? ;)).

I am not saying anyone who cant afford a new GT3 RS is a poser, but what I am saying is, is that if you relaly are an enthusiast and not a poser, then when you do go looking ofr, say a C5 Coupe that you can afford you would go out of your way to find a manual transmission car at least to be able to deliver on the "sports car" part of the equation.

So the same goes for my opinion of the person who buys a base Porsche with an automatic tranny - I say they are buying the "Porsche" name and bragging rights - in other words are "posng" - as if they relaly were an enthusiast, they would seek out a manual tranny car ;)

Anyway, perhaps that better explains why I have a knee-jerk "poser" reaction to base model cars - the qualifier is the transmisison selection.

Anyone who buys an automatic BMW should have their license taken away :P and hence my opinion that all Benz drivers are ins ome manner just posing ;)


Now that is funny :)

what's up 79TA?, did the 911 GT3 come b4 the Carrera?, did the Z06 come b4 the normal version? aren't they pumped up/stripped down version of these base cars? how can they try to look like models that do not exist?... i'm going to say this for the millionth time then i'm out of here ... i for one am willing to accept that i may seem like a poser to others if i'm seen in a car like a vette, viper, ferrari etc. ..you are burying your head in sand if you think you don't pass as a poser to others simply because you have a performance variant of a car, whether it has a sportier supension, less weight, a manual only gearbox, more powerful engine whatever...extra performance doesn't write you off as a poser

this isn't the first time a thread has completely gone off topic, and at no point was I whining about anything, I was having a debate with another member of the forum, he said something i didn't agree with, and we tried to make our cases heard... which is what people do in forums, if you don't like it that's not my problem.

glad to see u get ur sense of superiority by calling random ppl online dumb, i hope ur proud of yourself, at least your buddy RC45 had the decency not to be dismissive.

Generally, a car and its performance variant are developed in conjunction. Sometimes the performance one is an afterthought (much like the old skyline based GT-R's) and sometimes the performance model is the point while the toned down volume version is needed to secure income. You can have the chicken vs egg argument all day long but it doesn't change the fact that performance variants of cars can and do perform regardless of how their base models drive. No pretending or posing is necessary.

Also, this conversation has done little to differentiate between poser cars and poser drivers. That made this thread even more painful to read.

A poser is one who pretends to be something he isn't. That applies to either cars or drivers. For instance, the C6 vettes (which are plenty capable) with Z06 badges etc at Cormier Chevrolet are poser cars. There's nothing wrong with a slow driver or slow car. They'll both be safe from the poser badge so long as they're just honest about what they are.

One more clarification: guys who dress up their cars to look faster than they actually are can be called posers as its their fault, not the cars. A generally more appropriate term for this is "ricer."

I called your train of thought dumb. So unless you are entirely defined as a person by that one thought, I did not call you dumb. Feel free to call any of my thoughts dumb. I won't take it as a personal attack but I'll likely clarify and defend my positions much like I am doing now. Disagreements don't just happen because everyone has good ideas.

Did you really just compare your car to a 360CS? come on now.
My car does 0-60 in around 4 secs and a quarter in the 12's, probably pulls as much g around a skidpad as a 360CS, but by no means do I pretend to be in the same league as one. Neither is a c5..

Don't give me that 11 year old blah blah, I was talking about the car when it was new, not how it is now.. All I'm saying is my information would have me bet that stock for stock, the GT-R would hold on longer on a track day than would a new c5 z06. 2000 wasn't THAT long ago, its not like your car was built in the 80's.

The GT3 comment was simply to show you that what you may consider a poser car, someone else might not.

And maybe people hold "past anger" because its the same people from the "old site" that you used to piss off then too? I don't hold anything against you yet, but you did tell me my old STI which had a fully built engine, fully built suspension, upgraded brakes, wheels and tires was in resume crap. I don't hate on your car, I like anything with 611rwhp. I don't hate on vettes, Im considering a C6 Z06 too as my next car. But just some of the comments sometimes man give me a bad vibe thats completely unnecessary and I don't think is warranted by you either.

I think all people are trying to say is that some of your comments are more about sarcasm and demeaning to others rather than constructive useful information or thoughtful remarks.

Why don't you just admit that the GT-R has flaws, but its still damn fast. It beat a GT3 around a track...

Same league as what? Pompous snobbery? Or on road and on track capability? Since when are certain cars "of limits for comparison" Please.

League? I guess this is that whole "oh my gawd its a ferrari I better pee pants bow down holy mother" reaction people have.

The 360CS may be rare and expensive and desirable annd full of fancy bits and pieces, Lord knows I have photgraphed and been in and around enough of them - but don't for a second assume it is an untouchable car from a performance perspective.

In stock form the C5 Z06 danced toe to to with the 360CS, just the same way the GT3 MKI did. When my car was stock I could pull a car on a 360CSon a freeway and could mor ethan hold its own in the twisties as vouched for by many trackdays and laptimes people have provided. What does that prove? Nothing - but it helps point out that the 360CS is a greta car, but not the only great car.

By the way - the 360CS vs C5 Z06 argument has been raging since the RacingFlix.Com days - and is just as true now as it was then.

You will need to go dredge up what ever post you claim where I said your car was crap - why would I? It was probably in response to some inane argument years ago. I am the consumate car fan - I just happen to drive a C5 Z06 because it is one of the mostaffordable ways to have unbelievable performance potential.

I have more than a passing interest in and in depth knowledge of many marques and manufacturers, vast number of books, videos and other performance related interests - the idea that I am some "Corvette only hate all other" person is a bullshit false image promoted by some other people - a few of which ar estill around.



Pissed them off? Screw them - all they did was spew anti-American crap (and lumped that in with anti-Vett, Viper and anything else they could) any time they could - and almost 99% of the crap they posted was inaccurate.

Added to that they could not keep their political hatred confined to the correct forum. Once that happened there was no turning off their nonsense.

The majority of them are gone now - its time the rest of them just gave up the bitterness and moved on - we are afterall trying to promote a new calmer MW.

And in closing - why is it that other people are entitled their opinions and vehemently defend them - but the dont allow the rest of us to have our own opion?

**Back on Topic**

I said this the day it came out - never said oterwise, but what I and others are saying is that in order to do the things it supposedly did it would either need more than 480bhp or weigh less than 4000lbs or come with amazing tyres.

Well - we are being proven right on 2 counts - all indications are it has way more than 480bhp and the tyres are about as sticky as Michelin Sport Cups.

Why not? They even have identical Nordschleife lap times. 360s were not that amazing.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...GTRSUV2of2.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...GTRSUV1of2.jpg
Now this makes more sense for it to be 4000lbs.

That is the ugliest thing on 4 wheels I have ever seen, and that statement holds true even if you count in the conterfiet cars from China and India.

Its like a slimmer Nissan Murano ;)

Thats an Isuzu Vehicros!

I think the new GT-R was probably the Murano design that they opted not to use.

I was thinking more down the line of a speedboat.