Why the AMG and M Car brigade should start worrying...

[RC45]

...just when the mega-sedan drivers (E55 M5 RS6 etc) though to was safe to hit the freeway again - afterall they are all getting super-expensive V10's and V12's next year - along comes the CTS V.

I know... all y'all are going to say "too little too late"...

Well - I have something else to say Bang for the Buck...

Once the tuned CTS V's start hitting the streets, it will became quite clear, that you will need to drop ANOTHER $40,000 on your already expensive AMG or M sedan to run with the "big dog"... ;)

But then again, they can always fall back on "the exclusivity thing" - like the Ferrari and Porsche guys do when they get their ass kicked by a Z06... ;)

http://www.z06vette.com/gallery/data/500/3648mallet_CTS_V-med.jpg

There is a little "teaser" video to go with this image...

[TT]

For sure the CTS is a good car, good bang for the buck, and good also in general terms, not only compared to the money, but still, I'm 100% sure such car will never be able to detrone BWM, Merc and Audi here in Europe.. traditions are strong and american manufacturer's marketing in Europe not very strong.. basically, the normal person here in Europe don't even know what a CTS could be... and when he will need a new supersaloon he will automatically thing Germany...

Maybe things will change, but it would take years for sure.

[RC45]

Well - I won't be cruising around Europe anytime soon ;) - so I will just wait a while and then quietly slip into a CTS V just to go M5 hunting ... :twisted:

For sure the Caddy is not going to "bust the european market wide open" - I have no doubt that with GM handeling the sales and marketing, the CTS V is going fail to sell well in many markets... but that is just how GM does business - with their heads up their asses while they sell a bazillion boring Buicks to rental agency's... ;)

That will leave us with a nice supply of low priced, depreciating value CTS V's to buy on the used car market.. :twisted:

[RC45]

Video link --->> http://www.jabbasworld.net/dload.php?action=file&file_id=584

[troskap]

i'd take a M or a Merc over that im not a big fan of Cadilac

[blah]

Sorry RC, but when your in the market for a super sedan, bang for the buck is not a factor. Kinda like some one looking at ferraris and porsches, and lambos going, but that damn Z06 only cost 50 grand, this wont happen. Id take a CTS V, but then id sell it for a Z06, i dont want 3 more people riding with me, those bastards will weigh my car down.

[skituner]

i would take a used bmw, audi, or jag over that thing any day


do you know if any mags have tested it?

[Erez]

all i have to say is M5-4-EVER :P :lol:

[T-Bird]

the CTS-V will be just as exclusive though since there won't be a ton of them being produced and I really like the look of it over the Audi and Mercedes but I love the new 5 so it's a toss up

[RC45]

Good car, but this is not enough to beat the M5, the RS6 or the E55 AMG... You need something more, something that only time gives, and at least in Europe, Cadillac doesn't have it. However, may be in the US is a good rival for those cars, but not in Europa... although the Caddy is cheaper, better car or whatever.

The car has a 400hp V8 as standard, 14 inch diameter brembo brakes, can pull .91G - 0-60 in 4.6s and does the ¼ mile in 13.1 seconds @ 107 mph and in that "slow bad handling standard form" lapped the Nurburgring faster than the current M5... at 8 min. 19 sec. (and now we shall hear that "the next M5 will kick ass" - well it isn't here yet - is it)

Considering that it is extremely easy and cheap to extract power out of the LS6 - with an extra 120hp over stock, and fancy tyres like the Beemer guys use for Nurburg laptimes - a modified CTS V could go alot faster. (and let's see you add 120hp to an M5, RS6 or E55 for $15,000)

Face the facts.. ;) The CTS V is quicker than the current RS6, M5 and E55... --- once again, all the pretentious Europeans can claim is some kind of exclusivity - but when the flag drops, the bullshit stops... :P

If money becomes no object, then the "prestige" factor also becomes moot - as can be witnessed by the sheer number of Ferrari and Porsche owners that also own a Z06 - alongside their GT2's, GT3's and 360CS's.

Long gone are the days of having to pay $100,000+ just to have an excellent powered and handling automobile that is not a "specialized kit-car" - but rather a daily usable car.

:P

[666fast]

It sure sounds nice!
I like it, I think it's a great car. The only problem is that I can't afford one!
You wouldn't have any videos of it on the gas would you? I'd love to here it scream!

[TT]

Face the facts.. The CTS V is quicker than the current RS6, M5 and E55... --- once again, all the pretentious Europeans can claim is some kind of exclusivity - but when the flag drops, the bullshit stops...


Uhm ;) the usual M5-E55-RS6 driver is not only concerned about lateral G or Ring laptimes ;) and I doubt that telling them that the CTS can be a couple of tenth faster to 100 km/h or a couple of seconds faster at the Ring will make them change their mind ;)
I'm not trying to place myself on one side or another, but well, when you chose to buy an M5, you buy also BMW image and so on ;) and as said by dani, on our market the CTS has no background..

So yes, the CTS could be a "potential" menace, but in practice, it isn't.. it's sad because it would be nice to see a new supersaloon spicing up the segment, but the CTS will probably rule in the States while in Europe nothing will change...

[RC45]

Face the facts.. The CTS V is quicker than the current RS6, M5 and E55... --- once again, all the pretentious Europeans can claim is some kind of exclusivity - but when the flag drops, the bullshit stops...


Uhm ;) the usual M5-E55-RS6 driver is not only concerned about lateral G or Ring laptimes ;) and I doubt that telling them that the CTS can be a couple of tenth faster to 100 km/h or a couple of seconds faster at the Ring will make them change their mind ;)
I'm not trying to place myself on one side or another, but well, when you chose to buy an M5, you buy also BMW image and so on ;) and as said by dani, on our market the CTS has no background..

So yes, the CTS could be a "potential" menace, but in practice, it isn't.. it's sad because it would be nice to see a new supersaloon spicing up the segment, but the CTS will probably rule in the States while in Europe nothing will change...

LOL - :lol: I was really just refering to here ;)

WHo knowa - they might even sell more M5's and E55's in the US than the rest of the world combined.. there are an aweful lot of rich snobby posers around here... so I would not really be worrying too much about them - since I will be out beating the snot out of my CTS-V... :P

[TT]

Yes of course I understand you were referring to "your" local market.. but I think that despite US market is sure more appealing to European manufacturers that Europe is to US ones, still the big German names are still considering their own domestic market as the "important" one :D BTW, beside the american CTS, there is another big hearted car that is trying to fight with the "classics", the Monaro ;) although just in UK so far, but I only see good things in new models entering the fight -> only improvements will come :D

[tuffguy]

i can't download the video... :(

[Schwalbe]

You dont need to convince me RC45 , because I really like the Cadillac CTS-V. As we have already discussed in the topic or you talked about your test drive of the CTS-V, the central point is the "Bang for the Buck". Mostly of us, we love the RS6 and M5, but who can really buy such cars? For me, I envision very seriously to buy a Cadillac CTS-V series used of only two years. The CTS-V is the better rational choice for a fascinated of RWD sedan, with a big motor and manual 6-speed and a reasonable price. :D

Concerning the upcoming powerful motors V-10 and V-12 from the competitors, Cadillac does not have to worry, because GM possesses currently two V8 motors of + 500HP : the LS2 6.0L SFI and the LS7 6.4L SFI. :wink: In addition, several sources like TheCarConnection.com and many Cadillac forums talk about this engine upgraded for 2006.

[FoxFour]

My friend told me this, and I will do some research to back this up, he said that the CTS V chassis had to have some serious reinforcement , especially in the rearward area, to handle the power of the LS-6 powerplant. I wonder how much power that chassis can hold onto reliably?

[Minacious]

That Caddy is a great performer, anyone denying that is a fool. What I assume many don't care for is the styling. That alone will be the deciding factor.

[godspeed06]

i love the styling. i think it is way better than the new bmw styling. the old bmw styling gives it a run for its money though, but now that point is moot.

[Kangaroo Boy]

I'm sorry RC45,But I hate that thing...Its UGLY...

[RC45]

I'm sorry RC45,But I hate that thing...Its UGLY...

Remember that when it kicks your ass on the way to lap you for the third time.. :)

Form once again follows function - and as a driver, not a poser, I would greatly enjoy that level of performance for the price. :)

http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/7394_image.jpg

yep - this sure looks ugly... ;)

http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/7395_image.jpg

Coming and going you realize you just stomped on... :P

[sentra_dude]

It's nice and all...but faster than an E55...I don't know about that. I don't know if you are talking in general terms, or in terms of a drag race, but if you mean drag, the CTS-V will get spanked by the E55...it might be different if there are corners involved, but still, I find it hard to believe that the E55, with nearly 80 more horsepower will get its 'ass kicked'...

Yes, I know the e60 M5 is not out yet, but it will be out soon...and when it comes out, bye-bye CTS-V...at least in stock form, there is no way 400hp can handle 500+hp. :fadein:

[RC45]

It's nice and all...but faster than an E55...I don't know about that. I don't know if you are talking in general terms, or in terms of a drag race, but if you mean drag, the CTS-V will get spanked by the E55...it might be different if there are corners involved, but still, I find it hard to believe that the E55, with nearly 80 more horsepower will get its 'ass kicked'...

Yes, I know the e60 M5 is not out yet, but it will be out soon...and when it comes out, bye-bye CTS-V...at least in stock form, there is no way 400hp can handle 500+hp. :fadein:

Which is the entire point of my post.

The people buying the CTS-V for the perfromance (and there are a lot) will do the very same mods they do to their Z06's.

And these mods very easily take the engine to 550hp (at the crank) and beyond.

When ever I comment about the Z06 stomping other cars I refer to stock - and the same is true for the CTS-V... but bare in mind that very few of these cars remain stock... ;)

While many M5's and E55's get modded - the mods are mostly limited to removing the 155mph governors and adding an exhaust etc.

Why?

Cost - the sheer cost of bumping the AMG and M engines by 100+hp is outrageous - while bumping an LS6f from 400hp to 550hp is a $10,000 head/cam/exhaust/instake affair.

Start playing with displacement upgrades and suddenly you have a 650hp N/A engine... don't even start talking about SC/TC addons that routinely deliver 750+hp.

While a 700 crank HP E55 or M5 is possible - the cost begins approaching NASA levels of commitment.. :)

So - once again, while the "rich boys toys" may appeal some other "normal folks" that may never be able to swing the entry fee - I prefer to participate vs standing on the sidelines dreaming... :P

Enter the 4-door Z06... :twisted:

[blah]

All i need is a black 93 Cobra 5.0 so i can put a Turbo on it, and do the AKA rally. RC you gonna run next year?

[sameerrao]

The car has a 400hp V8 as standard, 14 inch diameter brembo brakes, can pull .91G - 0-60 in 4.6s and does the ¼ mile in 13.1 seconds @ 107 mph and in that "slow bad handling standard form" lapped the Nurburgring faster than the current M5... at 8 min. 19 sec. (and now we shall hear that "the next M5 will kick ass" - well it isn't here yet - is it)

Considering that it is extremely easy and cheap to extract power out of the LS6 - with an extra 120hp over stock, and fancy tyres like the Beemer guys use for Nurburg laptimes - a modified CTS V could go alot faster. (and let's see you add 120hp to an M5, RS6 or E55 for $15,000)

Face the facts.. The CTS V is quicker than the current RS6, M5 and E55... --- once again, all the pretentious Europeans can claim is some kind of exclusivity - but when the flag drops, the bullshit stops...

If money becomes no object, then the "prestige" factor also becomes moot - as can be witnessed by the sheer number of Ferrari and Porsche owners that also own a Z06 - alongside their GT2's, GT3's and 360CS's.

Long gone are the days of having to pay $100,000+ just to have an excellent powered and handling automobile that is not a "specialized kit-car" - but rather a daily usable car.


There is a lot of hyperbole in what you say.. Don't get me wrong - the CTS-V is a great achievement (particularly considering it is an American four door car). But I don't think it is better than the cars you trash - M5, etc...

Specifically,

Nurburgring Laptime:
Is the 8'19'' time you quoted been independently verified? To my knowledge that quote is attributed to John Heinricy (I hope got the name right) - a GM engineer based on their testing.

The lap times as tested by Auto Motor und Sport for comparable cars are:
- Audi RS6 - 8.20 sec
- BMW M3 - 8.22 sec
- BMW M5 - 8.28 sec
- Mercedes E55 AMG (no time available but SL55 AMG has clocked 8.12 sec - the E55 should be close as it weighs less but also has slightly less power).

they have not tested the CTS-V yet.

So basically the Audi and E55 will equal or better than the CTS-V. The M5 is a good showing for a car that is nearly 5 years old. I do not think it is safe to say that the germans have been blown away by the CTS-V.

Tires used at Nurburgring test:

About the tires used in the test - the BMW was shod with Michelin Pilot Sport and Audi with Michelin Conti Sport Contact - pretty normal high performance tires. The Caddy has Goodyear Eagle F1 EMT (run-flat) in the US. The run-flats are sold as the car is w/o a spare tire. So I don't think the statement that the Bimmers used expensive tires really holds water. If Caddy wanted they could have shod it with Pzeros , right??

Acceleration and Braking data quoted by you
R&T got slightly slower numbers than what you posted - 5.0 sec 0-60, 1/4 mile in 13.4 sec and 80-0 in 202 ft.

Comparable data from R&T show:
Audi RS6 - 4.6 sec 0-60, 1/4 mile in 13.1 sec and 80-0 in 202 ft
BMW M3 - 5.0 sec 0-60, 1/4 mile in 13.5 sec and 80-0 in 197 ft
BMW M5 - 4.8 sec 0-60, 1/4 mile in 13.3 sec and 80-0 in 203 ft
Mercedes E55 AMG - 4.2 sec 0-60, 1/4 mile in 12.4 sec and 80-0 in 209 ft

Your numbers match Cadillac's own test data.
Therefore, I see CTs-V in the midpack if not tail end of this group other than its braking.

I reiterate - the CTS-V is a very good sports sedan but not the best of this group. It certainly wins the bang for the buck though...

However if one wants to bring in the price factor - you can buy a Mitsubishi Evo (handles exceptionally well for an AWD car) and spec it up to easily whip the CTS-V. I mean to say that once the dollar number is brought into consideration - the scope of relevant cars really widens...

I saw the CTS-V myself at the Houston Auto show - I loved the engine, the brake ducts, etc but thought the car looked pretty cheap inside - I mean it is a 50K car we are talking about. I appreciate that they spent money on good quality suspension, brakes and engine but they could have spent some more on improving the look inside.

My favorite in this segment is still the E39 M5. If I had the necessary cash, I would buy a 2 year old used m5 for 52K over a new CTS-V - just because it was and still is phenom in its time...

[RC45]

The car has a 400hp V8 as standard, 14 inch diameter brembo brakes, can pull .91G - 0-60 in 4.6s and does the ¼ mile in 13.1 seconds @ 107 mph and in that "slow bad handling standard form" lapped the Nurburgring faster than the current M5... at 8 min. 19 sec. (and now we shall hear that "the next M5 will kick ass" - well it isn't here yet - is it)

Considering that it is extremely easy and cheap to extract power out of the LS6 - with an extra 120hp over stock, and fancy tyres like the Beemer guys use for Nurburg laptimes - a modified CTS V could go alot faster. (and let's see you add 120hp to an M5, RS6 or E55 for $15,000)

Face the facts.. The CTS V is quicker than the current RS6, M5 and E55... --- once again, all the pretentious Europeans can claim is some kind of exclusivity - but when the flag drops, the bullshit stops...

If money becomes no object, then the "prestige" factor also becomes moot - as can be witnessed by the sheer number of Ferrari and Porsche owners that also own a Z06 - alongside their GT2's, GT3's and 360CS's.

Long gone are the days of having to pay $100,000+ just to have an excellent powered and handling automobile that is not a "specialized kit-car" - but rather a daily usable car.


There is a lot of hyperbole in what you say.. Don't get me wrong - the CTS-V is a great achievement (particularly considering it is an American four door car). But I don't think it is better than the cars you trash - M5, etc...

Specifically,

Nurburgring Laptime:
Is the 8'19'' time you quoted been independently verified? To my knowledge that quote is attributed to John Heinricy (I hope got the name right) - a GM engineer based on their testing.

The lap times as tested by Auto Motor und Sport for comparable cars are:
- Audi RS6 - 8.20 sec
- BMW M3 - 8.22 sec
- BMW M5 - 8.28 sec
- Mercedes E55 AMG (no time available but SL55 AMG has clocked 8.12 sec - the E55 should be close as it weighs less but also has slightly less power).

they have not tested the CTS-V yet.

So basically the Audi and E55 will equal or better than the CTS-V. The M5 is a good showing for a car that is nearly 5 years old. I do not think it is safe to say that the germans have been blown away by the CTS-V.

Tires used at Nurburgring test:

About the tires used in the test - the BMW was shod with Michelin Pilot Sport and Audi with Michelin Conti Sport Contact - pretty normal high performance tires. The Caddy has Goodyear Eagle F1 EMT (run-flat) in the US. The run-flats are sold as the car is w/o a spare tire. So I don't think the statement that the Bimmers used expensive tires really holds water. If Caddy wanted they could have shod it with Pzeros , right??

Acceleration and Braking data quoted by you
R&T got slightly slower numbers than what you posted - 5.0 sec 0-60, 1/4 mile in 13.4 sec and 80-0 in 202 ft.

Comparable data from R&T show:
Audi RS6 - 4.6 sec 0-60, 1/4 mile in 13.1 sec and 80-0 in 202 ft
BMW M3 - 5.0 sec 0-60, 1/4 mile in 13.5 sec and 80-0 in 197 ft
BMW M5 - 4.8 sec 0-60, 1/4 mile in 13.3 sec and 80-0 in 203 ft
Mercedes E55 AMG - 4.2 sec 0-60, 1/4 mile in 12.4 sec and 80-0 in 209 ft

Your numbers match Cadillac's own test data.
Therefore, I see CTs-V in the midpack if not tail end of this group other than its braking.

I reiterate - the CTS-V is a very good sports sedan but not the best of this group. It certainly wins the bang for the buck though...

However if one wants to bring in the price factor - you can buy a Mitsubishi Evo (handles exceptionally well for an AWD car) and spec it up to easily whip the CTS-V. I mean to say that once the dollar number is brought into consideration - the scope of relevant cars really widens...

I saw the CTS-V myself at the Houston Auto show - I loved the engine, the brake ducts, etc but thought the car looked pretty cheap inside - I mean it is a 50K car we are talking about. I appreciate that they spent money on good quality suspension, brakes and engine but they could have spent some more on improving the look inside.

My favorite in this segment is still the E39 M5. If I had the necessary cash, I would buy a 2 year old used m5 for 52K over a new CTS-V - just because it was and still is phenom in its time...

Your loss - not mine.

Give me a call when you get your M5 - I will be the guy in the CTS-V passing you in the bends, straight aways and open road. :)

[Schwalbe]

I saw the CTS-V myself at the Houston Auto show - I loved the engine, the brake ducts, etc but thought the car looked pretty cheap inside - I mean it is a 50K car we are talking about. I appreciate that they spent money on good quality suspension, brakes and engine but they could have spent some more on improving the look inside.


To put in application the "Bang for the buck" theory, GM like always are cuting in the investment of the interior of the car. I can live with that fact from domestic cars.


Start playing with displacement upgrades and suddenly you have a 650hp N/A engine... don't even start talking about SC/TC addons that routinely deliver 750+hp.


With this kind of equipments bye bye M5 rich boy! :wink:
http://www.lundcadillac.com/Accessories/CTS_Perf_Supercharger_B.jpg

I take advantage of the occasion for presented to you a video that I found between a Cadillac CTS-V Series vs Corvette C5 convertible:

Video: http://www.z06fest.com/MOV06058.MPG

http://www.z06fest.com/pic5.jpg
http://www.z06fest.com/pic4.jpg

[sameerrao]

Give me a call when you get your M5 - I will be the guy in the CTS-V passing you in the bends, straight aways and open road


That may be because you are a better driver and not because you have a better car. :wink:

[RC45]

Give me a call when you get your M5 - I will be the guy in the CTS-V passing you in the bends, straight aways and open road


That may be because you are a better driver and not because you have a better car. :wink:

LOL - :lol: - I doubt it - I am just a weekend warrior with no wars to fight.. ;)

And just to clarify something - I would never buy a CTS-V new - becasue as a GM product the sum of the parts is NOT worth $50,000... :P

But as an upper $30,000's used car - it represents unbelievable performance value for those of us on a budget (read as poor working stiffs.. ;))

[Schwalbe]

And just to clarify something - I would never buy a CTS-V new - becasue as a GM product the sum of the parts is NOT worth $50,000...


Many GM cars possess a average depreciation rate of 49% after only 3 years. Thus, the futures buyers of CTS-V have interest to buy it used. :wink: I base this reflection on my own personal experience. Because, my first car that I bought myself in 1998 was a 1995 Chevy Impala SS. I paid it the half of his origin price. :D

[sameerrao]

LOL - - I doubt it - I am just a weekend warrior with no wars to fight..

And just to clarify something - I would never buy a CTS-V new - becasue as a GM product the sum of the parts is NOT worth $50,000...

But as an upper $30,000's used car - it represents unbelievable performance value for those of us on a budget (read as poor working stiffs.. )


I agree with you 100% on this. No doubt about it - at $30K or so it will be an awesome buy - interior be damned... :) :) :)

BTW, What's the QS in you sig - QS Z06?? Quaker State?

[RC45]

Quick Silver... ;)

[BADMIHAI]

I still think it's a piece of crap. I'll be laughing at you when your doors won't even allign properly when closing, and your interior will be falling apart. GM makes shitty cars, and that's a fact. When you buy the M5 or E55 you get alot more than performance; you get luxury and absolute quality. Reliability is also exceptional for BMW and Mercedes...which I cannot say for Cadillac. Another thing: how long will that modified Cadillac last? I'd say not long. How long until your tranny, or something else fails? ///M and AMG do alot more than just drop in a big engine. They also modify the car to reliabily cope with the added power. This means you can drop the clutch in a M5 or E55 or RS Audi plenty of times and redline it through all the gears, and it'll still idle like a swiss watch every single time. Let's not even talk about maintining value.......

In conclusion, you can take your redneck "Caddy" and shove it up your ass. All up in your ass. :fist: :fist: :wink:

[SFDMALEX]

Anyone can pull off a one off competition crusher. But there are only few companies which always make good cars. BMW always made super saloons, as did Mercedes. For caddy this is a first, so let it be fast...

[Erez]

The M badge will never live in fear! 8) :lol:

[SPEEDKILLAR]

The M badge will never live in fear! 8) :lol:


That's so true................it only shivers when it hears the AMG roar :x


Long live MB AMG(and Brabus :wink: )

[Erez]

hehehe.. now Brabus i like! 8)

[RC45]

I still think it's a piece of crap. I'll be laughing at you when your doors won't even allign properly when closing, and your interior will be falling apart. GM makes shitty cars, and that's a fact. When you buy the M5 or E55 you get alot more than performance; you get luxury and absolute quality. Reliability is also exceptional for BMW and Mercedes...which I cannot say for Cadillac.
A well structured sentnce that reeks of inaccuarcies.. ;)

The "falling apart" is a little bit of an exageration there - after 44,000 miles my interior on the Z06 looks just as plain as it did on day one - but is also in the same great condition - Hyundais and Cavaliers may fall apart - but not the decent ones.. :P

If youhonestly believe every M and AMG car is perfect you are really in denile...


Another thing: how long will that modified Cadillac last? I'd say not long. How long until your tranny, or something else fails?

As long as the many, many, many modified LS1/LS6 M6 engine/tranny combos in the many, many, many 500+hp modified F-Bodies and Corvettes running around.

The modofied combo ends up better and stronger than stock.

You really need to try to only comment on things you actually know about.. ;)


///M and AMG do alot more than just drop in a big engine. They also modify the car to reliabily cope with the added power. This means you can drop the clutch in a M5 or E55 or RS Audi plenty of times and redline it through all the gears, and it'll still idle like a swiss watch every single time.
This proves you are living in a dream world. The car is "morthan just just drop in a big engine" as well. THAT is the entire point..

Abused M cars and AMG's are MORE likely to have visits back to the delaer for broken parts than their stock bretheren.

You really should try talking to aggressive AMG and M car drivers once in a while - you may be very surprised by what you learn.

And by the way, this is true for ALL high performance cars to varying degrees.


Let's not even talk about maintining value.......

No lets - a car is not an investment - so anytime you can get something at a lower price afterwards the better.

If your "worth" as a human is valued by the "snob-value and newness" of your possesions, you are a very shallow person... (which we already knew. ;))


In conclusion, you can take your redneck "Caddy" and shove it up your ass. All up in your ass. :fist: :fist: :wink:
I am not sure if that is a gay come-on - or a desire to be fucked by the faster car... ;)

[BADMIHAI]

If your "worth" as a human is valued by the "snob-value and newness" of your possesions, you are a very shallow person... (which we already knew. )



Now, now buddy. That's a logical fallacy. I was talking about the car. No need to get personal. :wink:



I am not sure if that is a gay come-on - or a desire to be fucked by the faster car...


I love it when you talk dirty. :twisted:
I must admit the Caddy is pretty fast but, IMO, it falls short of being as good (or better) than an M5 or E55 AMG or RS6.

[RC45]

If your "worth" as a human is valued by the "snob-value and newness" of your possesions, you are a very shallow person... (which we already knew. )



Now, now buddy. That's a logical fallacy. I was talking about the car. No need to get personal. :wink:



I am not sure if that is a gay come-on - or a desire to be fucked by the faster car...


I love it when you talk dirty. :twisted:
I must admit the Caddy is pretty fast but, IMO, it falls short of being as good (or better) than an M5 or E55 AMG or RS6.

:lol: -- nice touch removing the smileys.. :twisted: ;)

The great attraction for those of us that have been smitten with the LS6 is the cheap/easy mods that the CTS-V platform lends itself to.

Think of the CTS-V (and note how I don't call it a caddy - much like we don't refer to the Z06 as a Vette too often... :lol: ;)) as the "redneck" M5.... wait --- You already said that... :twisted: :wink:

[nthfinity]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
LOL x 10^3 :lol: :lol:

well, the Berg-Warner Transmission that GM is using has had some of the very most exquisit testing one can perform on it. with how many performance variants of thier 6 speeds out there, you hear very little about transmissions failing. clutches are another story for the 'abused' or as i more appropriately say, properly used cars... sure it will eat through a clutch plate in 12-20 thousand miles. with the same abuse upon a lesser transmission, you could bet the syncro mesh would be metal salad.

as far as maintainability, and reliability of the LS6.... did you know that GM has the 300 hour full throttle test, and the 'run it til it breaks' test :) it performs amazingly in both tests.

mercedes may have virtually unsurpassed reliability in their performance vehicles (based on R1000's and TGW numbers) but the cost of maintaining it is easily tripple that of the LS6.

oh, and BMW doesnt let the owner change his own oil anymore (unless somehow, you have the special key which is nessisary)

fun factor would be a major part of my decision making process... fuck the compfort... if i have a smile on my face, i know its the right choice. i know i would not have the same fun with triptronic transmission.

R+T doesnt post as consistant accelleration times as Car and Driver, or Motor trend.... and it all depends on track surface, temperature, PW, wind vector, tire choice, and most importantly, driver ability..... also, how beaten up the press car is when you drive it.

the thing i think Caddy got wrong here was the plastic engine cover.... and markup value :roll:

[BADMIHAI]

fun factor would be a major part of my decision making process... fuck the compfort... if i have a smile on my face, i know its the right choice. i know i would not have the same fun with triptronic transmission.



I know what you mean. The thing you must consider is that the people buying an M5, RS6, E55, or one of those "four door Corvette" are usually past 40 years of age, and more "stable" than you and me. I believe the average age of M5 owners is somewhere around 45. At that age (generalization will follow), they'll want the comfort and style (which, to them, might be more important than just straight-line acceleration) offered by Audi, Mercedes and BMW. Not to say the Caddy is a total POS ( I said it above anyway, just to piss off RC :twisted: ), but it lacks alot when it comes to interior design and build quality, when compared to BMW and Mercedes. If you want raw, virtually uncompromised (a little exagerated, I know) performance, you wouldn't go for any of the cars listed above anyway.

[sentra_dude]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
oh, and BMW doesnt let the owner change his own oil anymore (unless somehow, you have the special key which is nessisary)


Serious?!? That's soooo ghey. :roll: Why the hell would they do something like that, do they think their owners are too retarded to change the oil or something?

[BADMIHAI]

Why the hell would they do something like that, do they think their owners are too retarded to change the oil or something?


I don't see M5 owners changing their oil by themselves anyway. Changing the oil by yourself isn't really worth the time spent anymore...especially with all the pollution laws.

[nthfinity]

I don't see M5 owners changing their oil by themselves anyway. Changing the oil by yourself isn't really worth the time spent anymore...especially with all the pollution laws.


ive never asked an m5 owner, i found out from a friend who has a normal 3 series... not even an M badge

yes, thats gay to not be able to be macho and change your own oil


which, to them, might be more important than just straight-line acceleration


isnt it the CTS-V which out handles the big amg merc?
i think you have it backwards that the merc is the faster in the straight... faster then a Ferrari 360...

[moan786]

I still think it's a piece of crap. I'll be laughing at you when your doors won't even allign properly when closing, and your interior will be falling apart. GM makes shitty cars, and that's a fact. When you buy the M5 or E55 you get alot more than performance; you get luxury and absolute quality. Reliability is also exceptional for BMW and Mercedes...which I cannot say for Cadillac. Another thing: how long will that modified Cadillac last? I'd say not long. How long until your tranny, or something else fails? ///M and AMG do alot more than just drop in a big engine. They also modify the car to reliabily cope with the added power. This means you can drop the clutch in a M5 or E55 or RS Audi plenty of times and redline it through all the gears, and it'll still idle like a swiss watch every single time. Let's not even talk about maintining value.......

In conclusion, you can take your redneck "Caddy" and shove it up your ass. All up in your ass. :fist: :fist: :wink:


LOL ^^^^^^^ :lol:


my personal opinion is that the Caddy is a performance bargain and should cater to those after some serious performance with relative practicality , but as for the looks ewwww yukhh it looks like a brick on wheels....

[blah]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
oh, and BMW doesnt let the owner change his own oil anymore (unless somehow, you have the special key which is nessisary)


Serious?!? That's soooo ghey. :roll: Why the hell would they do something like that, do they think their owners are too retarded to change the oil or something?

you know the BMW owners would fuck up some how. Or maybe even get their ashcroft dirty... Ata ta ATATATA, my good man what is this OIL change you speak off, isnt their a mexican we can get to do this. :while sipping a martini at 3 PM:

But anyways i would take the CTS-V and trade it for a Z06 as im sure ive said already, i aint got time to wait for 3 other people to put their seatbelts on, yelling at me to slow down, watch out, you cant take a turn that fast. also those 3 extra people will offset my cars handleing and performance capabilities.

[RC45]

But anyways i would take the CTS-V and trade it for a Z06 as im sure ive said already, i aint got time to wait for 3 other people to put their seatbelts on, yelling at me to slow down, watch out, you cant take a turn that fast. also those 3 extra people will offset my cars handleing and performance capabilities.

:twisted: :lol: - :D

[SFDMALEX]

Ohh and why does everyone say thats its ugly? I like the look. Its more agressive :twisted:

[coombsie66]

..... also, how beaten up the press car is when you drive it.


Oh please, the press car handlers and prepers (i know personally the alfa romeo one for britain) would be shot (well probably just sacked) if they provided any of the serious testing mags/programs with a less than fully tweeked, top notch example. Yes it may be covered in scratches and stone chips, but u know that its gunna be sorted mechanically. For example the alfa 147 GTA had its rear antiroll bar changed numerous times to tune the handling for the Top gear test track.

Sorry, but i had to comment on that. :wink:

And my opinion on the CTS-V, it does look better in those other pics (dull grey) RC45 provided, but im guessing that aint stock.
So yes for someone looking for a good platform to work on and modify, the CTS-V does seem like a good choice.
But as has been said, the M5 has been out for donkeys now, and watever you say, u know that the new M5 aint far away :wink: .
All round super saloon, cruising bruiser M5 gets it imo, modifying platform and sleeper potential, yeah CTS-V. I bet it'll never come to england anyway! :P

[Tomerville]

Once the tuned CTS V's start hitting the streets, it will became quite clear, that you will need to drop ANOTHER $40,000 on your already expensive AMG or M sedan to run with the "big dog"...


YEAH! thats what im talking about!

[RC45]

..... also, how beaten up the press car is when you drive it.


Oh please, the press car handlers and prepers (i know personally the alfa romeo one for britain) would be shot (well probably just sacked) if they provided any of the serious testing mags/programs with a less than fully tweeked, top notch example. Yes it may be covered in scratches and stone chips, but u know that its gunna be sorted mechanically. For example the alfa 147 GTA had its rear antiroll bar changed numerous times to tune the handling for the Top gear test track.

Sorry, but i had to comment on that. :wink:

And my opinion on the CTS-V, it does look better in those other pics (dull grey) RC45 provided, but im guessing that aint stock.
So yes for someone looking for a good platform to work on and modify, the CTS-V does seem like a good choice.
But as has been said, the M5 has been out for donkeys now, and watever you say, u know that the new M5 aint far away :wink: .
All round super saloon, cruising bruiser M5 gets it imo, modifying platform and sleeper potential, yeah CTS-V. I bet it'll never come to england anyway! :P

Well - when the C&D guys got hold of the CTS-V to test, instead of getting the leaking rear tyre fixed before they tried to do all their tests, they simply complained about the cars handling and acceleration issues with a leaking rear tyre... :roll:

Couple that level of mental deficiency with these same clowns claiming that "the car wheels spins too much when we turn off traction control and nail the gas" - I doubt they could tell the difference between a well prepped car and a pedal cart.

[blah]

i dont respect C&D or MT for that matter, i do still like Road and Track, but i like edmunds.com alot they seem to have very unbiased reviews on automobiles. I also like MM&FF they can definately drive a car. I also lost all respect for Hot Rod magazine, how can you call yourself a hotrod magazine and only pull off a 13.3 out of a 03 Cobra vs a 13.2 you got on a STi, then the cobra only finish 2 seconds behind the sti on the road course.

[Schwalbe]

my personal opinion is that the Caddy is a performance bargain and should cater to those after some serious performance with relative practicality , but as for the looks ewwww yukhh it looks like a brick on wheels....


It's false, this CTS-V haves a superb look. Me, I really like the "Edge design style's", this look is aggressive and when the car is painted black, it's like a F-117 Stealth Fighter on wheels. :twisted:


Couple that level of mental deficiency with these same clowns claiming that "the car wheels spins too much when we turn off traction control and nail the gas" - I doubt they could tell the difference between a well prepped car and a pedal cart.


Haha LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

It's true, I read this C/D article's call: " Is Cadillac's bad boy really a Bimmer beater?" by the clown Tony Swan . (C/D March 2004). Two essential elements of a good road track test is lacked: 1- a car in perfect condition, and 2- a professional pilot. :wink:

[coombsie66]

^^ Yeah, sorry i didnt take into consideration some of the ass clowns they get to review the cars performance. :wink:

[sameerrao]

First of all to extract 120 hp from the RS6 for $15 000 would not be a big problem, for the other two I can speak but the Audi will be 120 hp stronger for that amount of money for sure.....


AWE has a kit for the RS6 that gives about 550 hp for $2850

[RC45]

First of all to extract 120 hp from the RS6 for $15 000 would not be a big problem, for the other two I can speak but the Audi will be 120 hp stronger for that amount of money for sure.....


AWE has a kit for the RS6 that gives about 550 hp for $2850

This I do not believe - please provide the link to any performance upgrade for a high performance German engine that pushed power to 550hp for $2850.

I had to go there.. but pics or stfu... ;)

The only inof I have seen is 520 crank HP.. (on a specific car).. let's see the "general trend".. :P

[sameerrao]

I have seen people quote output between 520 - 550 HP/PS... but 520HP/538 hp is available for under $3000. I don't have the price for 550PS Sportec RS550

AWE tuning - 520hp/538 lb/ft tq
http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/gallery/rs6/index.cfm

Sportec 550
http://www.mtm-online.de/presseberichte/au_rs6_3.pdf
http://www.audirs4.org/files/cardb/sportec_rs550/004.jpg
http://www.audirs4.org/files/cardb/sportec_rs550/003.jpg
http://www.audirs4.org/files/cardb/sportec_rs550/001.jpg

[RC45]

I have seen people quote output between 520 - 550 HP/PS... but 520HP/538 hp is available for under $3000. I don't have the price for 550PS Sportec RS550

AWE tuning - 520hp/538 lb/ft tq
http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/gallery/rs6/index.cfm

Sportec 550
http://www.mtm-online.de/presseberichte/au_rs6_3.pdf
http://www.audirs4.org/files/cardb/sportec_rs550/004.jpg
http://www.audirs4.org/files/cardb/sportec_rs550/003.jpg
http://www.audirs4.org/files/cardb/sportec_rs550/001.jpg

Are there many of these cars around?

[sameerrao]

The tuners are still trying to figure out how to unlock all the potential from the RS6 - Its still early days.

Sportec USA does not mention the RS550 on their US website yet...
http://www.tanakusa.com/web2003/sportec_03_a6.htm

For some reason there is a huge price difference between the chip offered in the USA and in Europe. It is much cheaper in the US....

I know for my car - Audi S4, the engine upgrade options and costs are:
1. Stock - 250hp/258lb/ft
2. Stage 1 - (chip only) - 318hp/382lb-ft - $600
3. Stage 2 - (chip + catback exhaust) - Adds about 20 hp + 10 lb/ft - another $1000
4. Stage 3 (Stage 2 + K04 turbos + assoc. plumbing) - 412/482hp - another $6000

So $1800-2000 will give me 70 hp and 130 lb/ft of torque (93 octane) - all from a humble little 2.7 litre engine - I except a whole more from a 4.2 litre in the RS6.

[RC45]

Sure enough - these cars may exist, but I have yet to run across a fast Audi on the street.. ;)

[sameerrao]

Really? I am surprised. You must be getting the blue rinse Audi drivers in your neighbourhood. Not representative of the whole marque.... :D Seriously, I find most S4 guys drive pretty fast - though not as overtly or in-your-face as those reckless teens driving integras with fart can exhausts prowling up and down Westheimer where I live ...

[SilverPhoenix]

Really? I am surprised. You must be getting the blue rinse Audi drivers in your neighbourhood. Not representative of the whole marque.... :D Seriously, I find most S4 guys drive pretty fast - though not as overtly or in-your-face as those reckless teens driving integras with fart can exhausts prowling up and down Westheimer where I live ...

well compared to RC45's Z06 S4's aren't that fast hehe

[sameerrao]

well compared to RC45's Z06 S4's aren't that fast hehe


No question about that. I wasn't trying to compare the two anyway..

[RC45]

well compared to RC45's Z06 S4's aren't that fast hehe


No question about that. I wasn't trying to compare the two anyway..

:twisted: ;)

[4RCD3S4]

The CTS-V is an awesome car. Saw the silver one in person at a local dealership, really has strong road presence. The combo of that LS-6 and such a fundamentaly good chassis (The V6 CTS thing beat EVERYTHING else in this month's R&T comparo, including the new 5-er and the E class) that it basically 0wnz j00 8)

And for the record, there's a CTS in Milwaukee (my home city) with a Buick Grand National motor in it that runs 11's in the 1/4 mile. Very impressive car

[T-Bird]

Cheese Head! where does the car run?

[gtx28]

And for the record, there's a CTS in Milwaukee (my home city) with a Buick Grand National motor in it that runs 11's in the 1/4 mile. Very impressive car

I have the article in Gm High-Tech Performance about that car, they end the article with the question does the owner have more balls for tearing appart a 40k brand new car, or dropping a 15 yo motor in it. Lol either way hes pullin a 11.42 at 121mph, on a full 1/4 track not a lame 1/8th track. 436ftlbs torque, and 419 hp, and the guy claims to drive it often. If you guys want ill try and scan it. Either way a hot caddy.

[aj887]

Along with the cts-v chrysler is going to have it's own performance sedan. If you read this month's issue of Motor Trend it says that Chrysler will be realasing a 300 series called the SRT-8 which will have the 5.7 liter hemi bored out to 6.1 and it will be producing 425hp.

[gtx28]

nice i look forward to seeing that car,srt-8 huh sounds nice,i like the 300c so far, two people in my neighborhood have purchased new 300c cars.

[Tyrek]

Honestly though, if you're in the market for a super sedan, you cant beat the Germans. I'm from Oz and even though we build cars of similar, or even greater power, but they still are not up to an E55 or M5.

[patrickwd]

Why i rather have a German car:

$50,000 v8 american car interior:
http://auto.consumerguide.com/images/autoreview/lrg/03123191990001LRG.jpg

$50,000 v8 german car interior:
http://www.rs6.com/gfx/media/gallery/other/016l.jpg

[RC45]

Why i rather have a German car:

$50,000 v8 american car interior:
http://auto.consumerguide.com/images/autoreview/lrg/03123191990001LRG.jpg

$50,000 v8 german car interior:
http://www.rs6.com/gfx/media/gallery/other/016l.jpg

Actually that's a stock C5 interior... and you can get one right now new off the lot for about $37,000 here in Houston - so your point being?

The "$50,000" Z06 is selling for about $45,000 at current discounts (new car price) and the interior is all black (or black and red) and quite purposeful looking.

Again, why compare a 2 door coupe to a luxo sedan?

[PATo355]

Well RC45 its selling at 45k , but it was AT 50k , and as most American cars they look incredible shit ! , a friends dad has an Impala , a car that cost the same as a C-Class for example and the interior is simply horrible , and that is A MAYOR problem with american cars , i think Cadillac new cars are way better ...

[RC45]

Well RC45 its selling at 45k , but it was AT 50k , and as most American cars they look incredible shit ! , a friends dad has an Impala , a car that cost the same as a C-Class for example and the interior is simply horrible , and that is A MAYOR problem with american cars , i think Cadillac new cars are way better ...

Not quite.

An optioned Impala is a $28,000 car - the entry C-sedan is about $33,000 - a mildy optioned C-class sedan is a $38 - $40,000 car.

http://www.chevrolet.com/impala/#ss

http://www.mbusa.com/brand/index.jsp

The Impala is a generic family sedan - a 4-door shit-bucket grocery getter - sorry if anyone thought otherwise.

The C-class is a Mercedes-Benz.

No one said the US shit-bucket family cars are good lookers.

[pagani]

I am not a huge bmw or amg fan.
Still think the CTS-V is far better than the new bmw m5 or a new amg merc.
The ctc-v has a american v8 with lots of power and torque plus i hope with lots of tuning parts if the afmarket tuners got hold of the cts-v.
:twisted: :wink:

[Tomerville]

Wow, why is it that people have such trouble making comparissons between cars!?

[amanthapar]

okay ............... but overall m5 and merc is better ...

[ludwig14]

even cadilac isnt too sure about how well its gonna do i saw the road and track thing they had on tv