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altezza
04-04-2004, 06:39 AM
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MUSTANG RETURNS TO ROAD-RACING, 5.0-LITER ROOTS WITH MUSTANG GT-R CONCEPT

* A tribute to 40 years of performance, Mustang GT-R concept celebrates famous “Yellow Mustangs,” features 440-horsepower “Cammer” crate engine and athletic handling
* Retains 85 percent of 2005 Mustang’s body components and reinforced versions of the race-inspired suspension designs.
* Nearly ready for a variety of series, or to be offer to weekend warriors as an affordable, factory-supplied race package.

NEW YORK, April 7, 2004 – The muscular Ford Mustang GT-R rekindles the legend’s road racing glory and the magic of 5.0-liter Mustangs in a stunning racing concept making its world debut today. The Mustang GT-R signals a potential future race car while honoring four decades of performance glory just days before Mustang’s 40th anniversary.

“The Mustang GT-R blends today’s breathtaking design, Ford Racing’s unmatched history and the most advanced racing technology into the ultimate Mustang,” says J Mays, Ford group vice president, design. “Mustang’s iconic image grew with every checkered flag so we think the Mustang GT-R is an appropriate tribute to the car’s 40th anniversary, and a hint at what’s to come.”

The bright Valencia Orange car – inspired by the famous Grabber Orange 1970 Mustang Boss 302 Trans-Am race cars (the Yellow Mustangs) piloted by race legends, including Parnelli Jones – is a technological showcase that, when peeled back, reveals a number of existing or production-feasible racing parts.

“The Mustang GT-R shows that Ford is back in road racing in a serious way,” says Chris Theodore, Ford vice president of Advance Product Creation.

The Mustang GT-R features Ford Racing’s 440-horsepower “Cammer” crate engine, already affordably available to grassroots racers that could be tuned to produce more than 500 horsepower under certain race series rules. Last year, a tuned 505-horsepower version of the “Cammer” notched world-class performance and endurance credentials by powering a Mustang to victory at the 24 Hours of Daytona race in the Daytona Prototype category.

The race car is engineered to tackle the world’s toughest road and street courses with a stiff structure (based on the all-new 2005 Mustang scheduled for sale this fall), a collection of the most sophisticated racing parts from many racing series and a Formula One-inspired steering wheel. However, the Mustang GT-R could be easily transformed into an affordable, competitive option for grassroots teams as it uses 85 percent of the 2005 Mustang’s body components along, the same suspension setups and the already-attainable “Cammer” powerplant.

“The GT-R is the Mustang racers would build if they weren’t bound by various road racing rules,” says Dan Davis. “We were fortunate to start with a rigid, well-balanced production Mustang that was proved out on the track by some of the same people who, in previous jobs, helped Ford Racing win on Sundays.”

“The Mustang GT-R could be adapted to conform to different series and budgets but, in this variation, it serves as a dream machine. We took the ‘Cammer’ engine from the Ford Racing catalog and built a race car around it with the best parts we’ve researched and tested through our unmatched global racing program.”

While conceptual in spirit, the Mustang GT-R is built by racers and is a capable performer with an eye on stepping up Mustang’s road-racing presence. Several racing series – American LeMans, SCCA Trans-Am, GrandAm Cup and the FIA – could easily accommodate the Mustang GT-R. For example, the car could meet some series rules with basic modifications to the brakes, wheels, tires and body parts.

The Mustang GT-R also hints at a turn-key grassroots racing package that could be retailed through Ford Racing’s parts’ catalog and distribution network.

Engine Dressing

Doug Gaffka’s – design director, Ford Performance Group – design inspiration for the Mustang GT-R was simple: A flexed 2005 Mustang shell to wrap the engine and retain 85 percent of the production car’s solid structure.

"We decided that when a car as good as the 2005 Mustang comes along, we don't need to look much further for a pure race car," he said, noting the Mustang's shell would be dressing for the engine and roll cage.

The carbon fiber hood instantly communicates the car’s performance with a large engine bulge and an unfinished surface that harkens back to the famous yellow Mustangs with black hoods.

The front end is a further evolution of the Mustang GT coupe and convertible concepts that stole the 2003 North American International Auto Show and foreshadowed the design of the 2005 Mustang. The Mustang GT-R features the classic pony in the grille surrounded by modern materials like carbon fiber as well as advanced aerodynamic treatments, such as ground-hugging front and side splitters.

The sides of the Mustang GT-R are accentuated by huge front fender flares that accommodate the racing suspension, 20-inch wheels, racing slicks, and substantial air scoops. The equally large rear fenders house tires that are an inch wider. Considering how quickly 18- and 19-inch tires became standard racing ware in recent years, these tires are a realistic forecast of the next evolution in race rubber. Dual stainless steel exhaust tips jut out of the rear body panel just above the rocker panel on both sides in front of the tires.

The classic Mustang rear quarter windows are blocked out to accommodate the fuel delivery “dry-brake” system on the driver’s side. The doors are fully functional as required by many of the possible racing classes.

The prominent GT-R logo is placed above the front fender and is flanked by the honorary “Mustang” and “40th Anniversary” words. This logo is repeated on the rear.

The prominent composite rear spoiler is probably the most striking design element and meets several road racing sanctioning body rules.

The rear fascia, like the front, is a further expression of the GT concept design with a wider taillamp execution. Endurance racers will instantly recognize the differential cooler mounted between the taillamps with an aluminum grille screen.

Inside, the instrument panel preserves the dramatic styling of the 2005 Mustang in a carbon fiber application for racing. In anticipation of another trend, designers chose a Formula One-style steering wheel with most vehicle controls and gauges integrated, including the tachometer, gear selections, telemetry and warning signals. Only the oil pressure and water temperature gauges are located on the instrument panel.

“Most racers cobble together interiors,” says Gaffka. “The Formula One-style steering wheel significantly reduces dash gauges to help preserve Mustang’s powerful instrument panel, which is the next evolution of our interior design leadership.”

The passenger side houses seat mount tracks for a second seat if needed for would-be thrill seekers seeking first-hand experience of the Mustang GT-R’s performance. The chrome-moly roll cage is attached to all significant points in the body structure, adding significant rigidity to an already stiff body.

The Mustang GT-R’s body retains 85 percent of the production car’s body components that were stiffened by 30 percent as part of the Mustang’s first full makeover ever. The only modifications include rear-mounted battery pods and a fuel cell relocated to the rear trunk.

The car was built at Saleen Special Vehicles in Troy, Mich. by the same members of the Ford GT “Dream Team” who are building subassemblies and painting body panels for Ford’s first supercar.

The "Five Liter" Is Back

The foundation for the Mustang GT-R's race-prepared 440-horsepower engine is the new 5.0-liter “Cammer” crate engine from Ford Racing Performance Parts. The engine is rooted in the MOD 4.6-liter four-valve V-8 engine family. However, the motor's flanged cylinder liners help provide 94mm (instead of 90.2mm) cylinder bores, creating a full 5.0 liters of piston displacement.

And while the motor employs the SVT Mustang Cobra’s forged crankshaft with six-bolt mains and Manley “H-Beam” connecting rods for superior strength, the high-strength Ford Racing block features design reinforcements and a revised material to add strength and provide high-output durability. The block is specially reinforced in the crankcase web areas for high torque loads.

Other key differences include forged pistons, an 11.0:1 compression ratio, ported heads, higher-lift cams and beehive-shaped valve springs. The crate engine also features higher-flow fuel injectors and a magnesium variable-geometry intake manifold.

The 5.0-liter “Cammer” engine comes with a custom oil pan and features custom fabricated Tri-Y headers and crossover.

Helping put the power to the ground is the Ford Racing-supplied TTC T-56 six-speed transmission linked to the engine through a heavy duty clutch and flywheel assembly. Power exits the transmission through a custom metal matrix composite aluminum driveshaft into a race-specification differential with a 4.56:1 final drive ratio.

The "Cammer" was introduced at the Specialty Equipment Manufacturers Association (SEMA) show in 2002. The engine in the GT-R is identical to the crate engine with the exception of camshaft timing, which was modified to produce more high-end horsepower for track use.

Proven Race Chassis

The Mustang GT-R benefits from the 2005 Mustang’s race-inspired chassis that was developed and tuned by engineers with Ford Racing engineering experience or a passion for weekend track time. The Mustang’s race-bred suspensions, near 50-50 weight distribution and ultra-stiff body structure are just the beginning of Mustang GT-R’s credentials.

“The GT-R is the ultimate expression of the Mustang platform,” said Hau Thai-Tang, 2005 Mustang chief nameplate engineer. “Mustang spans more of the market than almost any other car – from an under-$20,000 V-6 to race-ready car in the $40,000 range. The Mustang GT-R shows how we can expand that unmatched reach with the all-new platform.”

Track time – at drag strips and on road courses – was a critical part of the 2005 Mustang’s development, as chassis engineers pushed prototypes to the limit in search of the perfect power-and-handling blend.

“We spent countless hours refining this car on development drives and at the track,” said Mark Rushbrook, 2005 Mustang vehicle development manager. “The car has been to the Nelson Ledges road course in Ohio several times for 24-hour runs and has spent months on our own straightaways and handling courses at our proving grounds in Arizona, Michigan and Florida.”

Soon after the 2005 Mustang’s world reveal in January, race engineers quickly began building on its solid foundation. The Mustang GT-R concept's chassis was fully stripped down to the body shell to receive custom reinforcement and structural improvements for driver safety on the race track. A roll cage was added along with a Sparco-brand racing seat with a five-point safety harness.

The production suspension geometry is retained but key parts have been replaced in order to reduce weight or provide additional strength for the rigors of racing. Suspension pieces, including the K-member, are made of lightweight chrome-moly tubing. The race-proven dampers are coil-over fully-adjustable units and feature remote reservoirs. A strut tower brace increases structural rigidity.

Rounding out the chassis package are huge race-proven Brembo brakes. The front features 14.3-inch rotors with six-piston calipers, while the rear has 13-inch rotors with four-piston calipers. Linking the whole package to the race track are 20-inch wheels and racing slicks provided by Pirelli. Tire sizes range from 275/35 in front to 305/30 in the rear.

The Mustang GT-R is engineered with modern aerodynamics principles, including a massive front air flow opening and carbon fiber belly pans that reduce underbody air turbulence.

Concept to Reality

While the Mustang GT-R is a concept, the car was engineered to perform at racing speeds with parts available to weekend warriors through the 2004 Ford Racing catalog today.

The 5.0-liter EFI “Cammer” crate engine, including the wiring harness kit, will sell for an MSRP of $14,995. The “Cammer” engine takes the guesswork out of installation projects by offering a choice of several length 5.0-liter,4-valve modular wiring harness kits that are created specifically to cover the most popular engine swap configurations.

What’s more, harness kits – which include the powertrain control module (PCM) – provide all of the necessary electrical connectors, including end terminals, a fuse box, a power distribution box, as well as switch connectors and fuel pump relays.

The role cage, rear spoiler and some chassis components are all being considered for further development.

Solid Foundation

The Mustang GT-R enjoys the strong bloodlines of the 2005 Ford Mustang that was introduced in January as the first Mustang ever with its own dedicated platform. The new platform is six inches longer, 30 percent stiffer and features a sophisticated solid rear axle.

Working on a clean sheet of paper, Mustang’s engineering team could have selected any type of setup at the rear, including an independent suspension. So why choose a solid rear axle? The answer lies in Mustang’s position as America’s muscle car.

“We talked to a lot of Mustang owners and racers when we were developing this program,” said Hau Thai-Tang, Mustang chief nameplate engineer. “They are a very passionate group, and a lot of them told us – very strongly – that the all-new Mustang must have a solid rear axle because of its combination of performance and modification flexibility.”

The new-from-the-ground-up chassis and careful attention to vehicle dynamics give the all-new Mustang world-class ride and handling. With this ultra-rigid structure, Mustang engineers could tune spring, damping and bushing rates to a finer degree than ever possible.

This unrivaled driving excitement will continue to come at an attainable price. The base V-6 model will remain the best real-wheel-drive car for under $20,000, while the Mustang GT will be the most affordable 300-horsepower performance car in the market.

Ford and legions of worldwide fans will celebrate Mustang’s 40th anniversary on April 17, 2004, in Nashville, Tenn. at a birthday party hosted by the Mustang Club of America. The 2005 Mustang will hit showrooms in the fall of 2004. It will be built at the AutoAlliance International assembly facility in Flat Rock, Mich., just miles from its current home at the Dearborn Assembly Plant on the Rouge River.

Pricing will be announced closer to launch.

Ford Mustang GTR Concept

TECHNICAL DATA

Body

Lightweight RPS body panels with carbon fiber hood, aero devices, instrument panel, interior door panels and floor heal pads
Engine – Ford Racing 5.0L "Cammer" V8

Configuration V-8, aluminum block, aluminum four-valve cylinder heads, forged aluminum pistons

Bore x Stroke 94 mm bore x 90.0 mm stroke

Displacement 5.0 liters (302 cu in/4995 cc)

Compression ratio 11.0:1

Horsepower 440 @ 7000 rpm

Torque 400 lb-ft @ 5500 rpm

Redline 7000 rpm

Valvetrain Double overhead camshafts, four valves per cylinder

Intake valves Two per cylinder, 38 mm

Exhaust valves Two per cylinder, 32 mm

Throttle body Twin 57 mm
Drivetrain

Transmission Ford Racing/Tremec T-56 6-speed

Rear axle Winters/Ford 9-inch design

Gear ratios

1st 2.97

2nd 2.07

3rd 1.43

4th 1.00

5th .80

6th .62

Final drive 4.56:1

Differential Winters race spec rear differential

Clutch Ford Racing “Cobra R” heavy-duty clutch/flywheel assembly

Driveshaft Metal matrix composite aluminum custom driveshaft

Exhaust Complete stainless steel race exhaust with Tri-Y design headers, crossover and side exit tips
Chassis and Suspension

Chassis Fully reinforced fabrication

Suspension Original production geometry with lightweight chrome-moly tube (aircraft quality) construction

Front Reverse-L independent rigid strut tower brace with lightweight chrome-moly K-member and race-spec anti-sway bar with 1.25-inch box section

Rear Three-link solid axle with dynamic fully adjustable shocks with remote reservoirs and coil over springs, race-spec 1.25-inch panhard rod, and race-spec anti-sway bar
Brakes

Front Brembo Racing 6-piston calipers and 14.3-inch rotors, 1.25-inch thickness

Rear Brembo Racing 4-piston calipers and 13-inch rotors, 1.25-inch thickness

Wheels & Tires

Front Pirelli P275/35/20 racing slicks

20 x 10-inch 5-spoke billet aluminum wheels

Rear Pirelli P315/30/20 racing slicks

20 x 11-inch 5-spoke billet aluminum wheels

MUSTANG RACING HISTORY

The iconic status of the Ford Mustang’s can be attributed to several major factors, including its product hallmarks of great looks and performance combined with affordability as well as it’s starring roles on the big screen. But, for the enthusiasts who have nurtured this image, the legend of Mustang began on the race track and grew quickly during four decades of dominating performances.

The new 440-horsepower Mustang GT-R is a bold expression of this glorious racing success with ties to some of Ford’s most famous racing moments.

In the early sixties, Ford and the other American automakers were “officially” out of racing, but chafing under the self-imposed Automobile Manufacturers Association ban that had begun in 1957. Seeking to boost its image, Ford would ultimately create a formidable racing program in the 1960s that is still thriving today.

That original program included the A.C. Cobra, the GT-40, the 427 and Boss 429 NASCAR and drag racing engines, the double overhead cam Ford Indy engine, the Ford-Cosworth DFV Formula One engine and production cars like the Mustang.

The name Mustang was suggested by executive stylist John Najjar because he was an aficionado of the P-51 Mustang fighter plane of World War II.

The wild-horse theme was adopted almost immediately. The familiar running-horse emblem was plainly visible at Watkins Glen, N.Y., in the fall of 1962. The crowds, on hand for the U.S. Grand Prix Formula One race, were treated to an exhibition of the Mustang I two-seat prototype driven by Dan Gurney.

Not much more than a month after its April 17 introduction, Mustang was on the race track as a pace car leading the 1964 Indianapolis 500. Before the year was out, Mustang was a winner in competition. Mustangs finished first and second in class in the 1964 Tour de France international rally – an auspicious beginning.

The first American assault came in drag racing, initially by individuals and dealer-sponsored teams. Racers squeezed 427 high-riser V-8s into their Mustangs, and the “horses” were off and racing.

By 1965, Ford was involved, with cars competing in the National Hot Rod Association’s (NHRA's) Factory Experimental, or A/FX class ... and the 427-cubic-inch single overhead cam V-8 made a potent powerplant in Holman & Moody’s A/FX Mustangs.

Ten of these Mustangs were built, and five of them qualified in the Factory Stock Eliminator field at the ’65 NHRA Winternationals. Bill Lawton drove his Tasca Ford Mustang A/FX to victory in the car’s very first race.

In 1965, Carroll Shelby responded to Ford’s challenge to build a winning road racing program by introducing the Mustang GT-350 – a stripped down Mustang 2+2 with modified suspension, shocks, steering, brakes and Ford 289-cubic-inch V-8s – for Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) competition.

Jerry Titus, Bob Johnson and Mark Donohue drove GT-350s to national titles in 1965, and the GT-350 went on to win SCCA B-Production national championships for three straight years.

1966 was the inaugural year for the SCCA Trans-Am series, and Mustangs found a new racing home. Jerry Titus in a Shelby-prepared Mustang won the season finale at Riverside. All told, Mustang racers won four of the seven series races as Ford won the manufacturers’ championship.

In the 1967 Trans-Am series, Jerry Titus chalked up four more victories in a Shelby Mustang, won the drivers’ title, and Ford took a second straight manufacturers’ championship. Mustang also won another SCCA B-Production road racing title.

In 1968, while singer Wilson Pickett was asking Mustang Sally to “slow your Mustang down,” Ford introduced the 428 Mustang Cobra Jet.

To performance enthusiasts, 1969 was dominated by the hottest Mustangs ever — 428 Mach 1, Boss 429 and Boss 302. Three modified examples of this fearsome threesome were taken to the Bonneville Salt Flats in search of speed records.

Driven by Mickey Thompson, Danny Ongais, Ray Brock and Bob Ottum, they collected 295 United States Auto Club (USAC)-certified records, including a 24-hour run on a 10-mile course at an average speed of 157 miles an hour.

Ford backed two Trans-Am teams in 1969: Carroll Shelby fielded drivers Peter Revson and Horst Kwech, while Bud Moore signed on Parnelli Jones and George Follmer. The teams combined for four victories and were tasting victory at mid-season before a string of accidents.

In 1970, Bud Moore’s team raced against one of the most competitive Trans-Am fields of all time with six factory teams. Jones and Follmer fulfilled the promise of a year earlier by winning six races and the manufacturers’ championship as Jones took the drivers'’ title.

Budget cuts, the oil embargoes and economic recession all contributed to the end of factory backing for Mustang's racing career in the 1970s -- and to the end of the so-called “muscle-car era.”

Of course, it didn't mean that Mustangs stopped racing.

Mustang was a favorite of short-track stock car racers through most of the seventies. In 1972, Dick Trickle raced a Mustang to a national record of 67 short track feature wins in one season.

And in drag racing, drivers like Connie Kalitta, Shirley Muldowney and Don Nicholson kept Mustang in the winner’s circle.

Pro Stock gained popularity, and by 1975 a now-familiar name was in the record books. Bob Glidden had driven a Ford Pinto to his first Pro Stock championship in ’74, and then switched to Mustang for’75, won four national events and his second NHRA championship — Mustang’s first Pro Stock title.

In Ford’s resurgent racing program of the eighties, Mustang figured prominently from the beginning in 1981. In International MotorSports Association (IMSA) GT racing, the turbocharged Miller Mustang, driven by Klaus Ludwig, came within a tenth of a second of winning its first race over the dominant Porsche 935 Turbos. Ludwig proceeded to make the threat a reality with back-to-back victories at Brainerd and Sears Point.

Tom Gloy put a Mustang back in a Trans-Am winner’s circle for the first time in a decade when he won the 1981 season finale at Sears Point.

And, in SCCA road racing, Mustang became the first domestic car ever to win the Showroom Stock a national championship when Ron Smaldone drove his turbo Mustang to victory at Road Atlanta.

By 1984, Ford Division had staked out the IMSA GTO series as the turf for Mustang. Enter Jack Roush, who was to the Mustang in the eighties what Carroll Shelby was in the sixties.

A Roush-prepared Mustang, driven by Willy T. Ribbs and Wally Dallenbach, Jr., won GTO class in the three-hour IMSA ’84 season finale at Daytona. It was the beginning of a Mustang reign as king of GTO.

The following February, Dallenbach, John Jones, and Doc Bundy won GTO class at the Daytona 24 Hours – the first of three consecutive Mustang victories in the season-opening marathon.

John Jones went on to win the’85 GTO drivers’ championship, while nine Mustang victories brought Ford its first road racing manufacturers’ championship since 1970. Three of those wins belonged to Lynn St. James, the first ever for a woman in the series.

The Roush Mustangs carried on the winning tradition in 1986 with eight more GTO wins and another manufacturers’ title for Ford. Scott Pruett scored seven of those wins and claimed the GTO drivers’ championship as well as the GT Endurance Championship, with more than a little help from Bruce Jenner.

In drag racing, Rickie Smith drove his Motorcraft Mustang to the semifinals or better at all 11 races on the International Hot Rod Association (IHRA) schedule, and took the IHRA Pro Stock world championship.

The 1987 Daytona 24 hours and one other victory were Mustang’s GTO total for the year. However, Saleen Autosport Mustangs, campaigned by Steve Saleen and Rick Titus, won the SCCA Escort Endurance SSGT championship.

In its silver anniversary year, Mustang returned to Trans-Am as rookie driver Dorsey Schroeder drove Ford’s “anniversary car,” numbered 25, while Lynn St. James returned to a Mustang. Schroeder won his very first race on his way to six season wins, a drivers’ championship and a leading role in Ford’s first manufacturers’ title since 1970.

In 1997, Tommy Kendall carried on the Trans-Am tradition by piloting his Roush-prepared Mustang to a record 11 consecutive wins as he clinched a third straight driver’s championship.

John Force, perhaps the most dominant racer of a single race series, broke his own NHRA drag racing record by winning his 12th national crown in his Ford Mustang Funny Car in 2002.

While Force continues to dominate the straight-line arena, Roush Racing and Saleen Racing are the most prominent privateers who carry the Mustang road-racing torch into the new century.

The new Mustang GT-R envelopes decades of racing success into a single statement that Mustang will continue to dominate the racing scene.

Ford Motor Company, headquartered in Dearborn, Michigan, is the world’s second largest automaker, with approximately 335,000 employees in 200 markets on six continents. Its automotive brands include Aston Martin, Ford, Jaguar, Land Rover, Lincoln, Mazda, Mercury and Volvo. Its automotive-related services include Ford Credit, Quality Care and Hertz. Ford Motor Company observed its 100th anniversary on June 16, 2003.

SPEEDKILLAR
04-04-2004, 07:10 AM
POWER :!: :!: :!:

T-Bird
04-04-2004, 01:45 PM
other than the exhaust the car is pretty good looking can't wait to see it around

Vansquish
04-04-2004, 02:46 PM
Looks amazing...at first I thought it was a photoshop...couldn't believe that Ford was going to make anything that looked that outrageous...I love it!

RC45
04-04-2004, 03:04 PM
Nice - a "Cobra R" for the next Millenium :D

Evo
04-04-2004, 03:15 PM
looks amazing.
Any interior pix.

gbg
04-04-2004, 04:29 PM
now that's nice :D

got more pics?

SL55 AMG
04-04-2004, 06:31 PM
Thanks for the info and cool prototype but...

I think it is hilarious how FORD and sometimes GM have to fall back on what they once produced, only in a modern form. Cant they set their own standards in the automotive world today, not the ones decades before?

RC45
04-04-2004, 06:57 PM
Thanks for the info and cool prototype but...

I think it is hilarious how FORD and sometimes GM have to fall back on what they once produced, only in a modern form. Cant they set their own standards in the automotive world today, not the ones decades before?

Please elaborate..


* A tribute to 40 years of performance, Mustang GT-R concept celebrates famous “Yellow Mustangs,” features 440-horsepower “Cammer” crate engine and athletic handling
* Retains 85 percent of 2005 Mustang’s body components and reinforced versions of the race-inspired suspension designs.
* Nearly ready for a variety of series, or to be offer to weekend warriors as an affordable, factory-supplied race package.


It seems to be a tribute - how is a tribute a throw back? They haven't gone and taken 40 year old engines out of storage and put them in old cars from museums.. they have taken a new chassis, and new engines and simply "packaged and painted it to remind us of the past".

Nothing wrong with doing that.

I guess Mercedes did nothing innovative WRT the Maybach - that is after all a "throwback" to the past... :roll:

If you are going to offer opposing comment and try to encourage discussion, do it with an intelligent fact-based reply - not the incendiary drivel you just posted.

Either way - I will let the rest of the folks offer their supportive and intelligent responses to yours.. :D

SPEEDKILLAR
04-04-2004, 07:10 PM
Thanks for the info and cool prototype but...

I think it is hilarious how FORD and sometimes GM have to fall back on what they once produced, only in a modern form. Cant they set their own standards in the automotive world today, not the ones decades before?

Please elaborate..


* A tribute to 40 years of performance, Mustang GT-R concept celebrates famous “Yellow Mustangs,” features 440-horsepower “Cammer” crate engine and athletic handling
* Retains 85 percent of 2005 Mustang’s body components and reinforced versions of the race-inspired suspension designs.
* Nearly ready for a variety of series, or to be offer to weekend warriors as an affordable, factory-supplied race package.


It seems to be a tribute - how is a tribute a throw back? They haven't gone and taken 40 year old engines out of storage and put them in old cars from museums.. they have taken a new chassis, and new engines and simply "packaged and painted it to remind us of the past".

Nothing wrong with doing that.

I guess Mercedes did nothing innovative WRT the Maybach - that is after all a "throwback" to the past... :roll:

If you are going to offer opposing comment and try to encourage discussion, do it with an intelligent fact-based reply - not the incendiary drivel you just posted.

Either way - I will let the rest of the folks offer their supportive and intelligent responses to yours.. :D

Well I hate to admit it, but I'm gunno have to go with RC45 on this one,
I don't think its a throwback to use a previous model to create a new one,
I think its more a tribute than a throwback.

mit5005
04-04-2004, 07:57 PM
That mustang is incredibla looking. Very radical. And the car just resembles the one of the 60's, nothing more. Styling cues are the only concepts taken from the car in the past. And I have to say that they really got a winner now. Nice pics.

nthfinity
04-04-2004, 08:07 PM
oooooooo ...... aaaaaaaahhhhhh :wink: the future 5.0 is stronger then i had suppositioned earlier in the forums.

the looks are a little on the bling side... id wait to see a solid color in perhaps a devious black :twisted: thanks for the pics, altezza

stracing
04-05-2004, 03:54 AM
i thought this was a joke for a moment
so does this have a rotary in it? with pistons? :mrgreen:

blah
04-05-2004, 02:02 PM
This car would look great in Red, or Black. So RC-45 have you found another stang that you like? Im sure u would still like to stick a LS6. But this car seems great if its true. O and how come no other domestics are followings fords lead and putting the best damn tires in the world on. U gotta love Pirellis.

RC45
04-05-2004, 02:22 PM
So RC-45 have you found another stang that you like?


Well - it is modelled the same way the previous Cobra-R was - NO COMPROMISE... ;)

nthfinity
04-05-2004, 02:35 PM
the 2000 cobra R was simply amazing as far as mustangs go, and, as far as serious sports cars go. the car could nearly go toe to toe with ta z06 of the same year 385hp vs 385 hp... in wonder if this new "R" model has the same active rear dif cooling. its hard to tell from the outside of the vehicle. in my life, ive only seen one Cobra R... id hope to see more of this one tho :)

RC45
04-05-2004, 02:39 PM
In Houston there a couple fo Cobra R's. Every now and again you come across them out and about prowling on Friday or Saturday night.. ;)

Needless to say, I have yet to come across them when I have my Digicam or Video cam - so I will just STFU until I get pics.. :P :lol: LOL

nthfinity
04-05-2004, 02:43 PM
2001 was the first year of 405 hp, second year of the z06?

StanAE86
04-05-2004, 02:49 PM
I just read about this. I like it! I wish I could find some more and bigger pictures though...

RC45
04-05-2004, 02:57 PM
2001 was the first year of 405 hp, second year of the z06?

No - 2001 was the first year Z06 - 385hp, from 2002 through 2004 the LS6 motor is rated at 405hp. I drive a "slow 385hp" Z.. ;)

In 1999 and 2000 there was a FRC Corvette (Fixed Roof Coupe), but it had no performance characterics distinguishing it from the Coupe - except it was available in 6-speed only.

The car had the stock LS1 rated at 345hp.

For 2001 they beefed up the suspension, debuted the LS6, set the transmission up with more aggressive ratios and dropped the LS1 FRC from the lineup - leaving us with the Z06 optioned FRC.

Make sense? ;)

nthfinity
04-05-2004, 03:07 PM
absolutely RC, thanks for the correction

tuffguy
04-05-2004, 03:10 PM
Isn't "GT-R" usually associated with Nissan and the Skyline?

Has Ford ever used GT-R in the past?

RC45
04-05-2004, 03:18 PM
Isn't "GT-R" usually associated with Nissan and the Skyline?

Has Ford ever used GT-R in the past?

Not any more.. if y'all want the name back - let's race for it... ;)

http://www.hoofbeat.net/images/GTR7.jpg
http://www.detnews.com/pix/2004/04/04/biz/b004-MustangGT-R-0404n-4.jpg

nthfinity
04-05-2004, 03:26 PM
im guessing that with Carol Shelby's return, the Cobra nameplate wont be used until thuroughly ready as a GT 350, or ~~praying~~ GT 500. so, im not suprised with the name GTR.

Not any more.. if y'all want the name back - let's race for it...

lol :lol: no kidding

yg60m
04-05-2004, 03:35 PM
This is a nice concept, just hope it won't stay a concept ...

tuffguy
04-05-2004, 03:51 PM
Isn't "GT-R" usually associated with Nissan and the Skyline?

Has Ford ever used GT-R in the past?

Not any more.. if y'all want the name back - let's race for it... ;)
hehe. mine's skyline will rape it.

yet another unoriginal move by ford. i think they used the GT-R badge a little while back too, trying to appeal to the import crowd.

retro GT, retro mustang, retro bronco, retro...

RC45
04-05-2004, 04:08 PM
Isn't "GT-R" usually associated with Nissan and the Skyline?

Has Ford ever used GT-R in the past?

Not any more.. if y'all want the name back - let's race for it... ;)
hehe. mine's skyline will rape it.

yet another unoriginal move by ford. i think they used the GT-R badge a little while back too, trying to appeal to the import crowd.

retro GT, retro mustang, retro bronco, retro...

Didn't take long for the Fast and Furious crowd to arrive, did it.

tuffguy
04-05-2004, 04:57 PM
Isn't "GT-R" usually associated with Nissan and the Skyline?

Has Ford ever used GT-R in the past?

Not any more.. if y'all want the name back - let's race for it... ;)
hehe. mine's skyline will rape it.

yet another unoriginal move by ford. i think they used the GT-R badge a little while back too, trying to appeal to the import crowd.

retro GT, retro mustang, retro bronco, retro...
Didn't take long for the Fast and Furious crowd to arrive, did it.
why, because i said that mine's skyline, the *real* GT-R will beat it?

or because i'm not really impressed with ford's current trend of digging into the past?

RC45
04-05-2004, 05:08 PM
why, because i said that mine's skyline, the *real* GT-R will beat it?

or because i'm not really impressed with ford's current trend of digging into the past?

No - because you are an ill-informed ricer-wannabee that has no concept of reality.

Specialiezed tuner cars such as the "Mines Skyline" have their equals from many brands - including tuner Mustangs.

If you want to compare apples for apples, lets compare them - Stock R33/33/34 vs Stock Cobra-R.

Tuned R32/33/34 vs tuned Saleens/Roushes.

But being that you are a F&F/NFS Under Ground graduate, I didn't expect any more or less.

tuffguy
04-05-2004, 05:24 PM
you're an idiot, and full of assumptions. you have no idea what i drive, and you have no idea how i like my cars.

first off, this "GT-R" is by no means "stock". i would consider it "highly tuned".

also, my original question was if ford has used GT-R in the past, or if they're simply doing it for the import crowd. i did not criticize this car or its merits. i'm not the one who said 'let's race for it'. and if we're gonna race for it, why would i choose a stock R34 to go up against this beast?

RC45
04-05-2004, 05:42 PM
you're an idiot, and full of assumptions.
I am also pompous and opinionated.



you have no idea what i drive,

No I don't - What do you drive?


and you have no idea how i like my cars.

Actually I think we have an idea - you don't like them domestic and purpose built to race in the GT class-- I mean you just said so - with your jab at "catering to the import crowd" - right? ;)

I am also guessing since you didn't say something like "Wow nice car, but bad name.." you probably don't like it.. ;)


first off, this "GT-R" is by no means "stock". i would consider it "highly tuned".

Which is what we all know - and the "Mines" Skyline would not own it... they would be able to compete in the GT class - in fact both may need to be detuned to qualify for the GT class limits.


also, my original question was if ford has used GT-R in the past, or if they're simply doing it for the import crowd. i did not criticize this car or its merits. i'm not the one who said 'let's race for it'. and if we're gonna race for it, why would i choose a stock R34 to go up against this beast?
Why would they do this for the import crowd? It is pegged to be a factory provided race car.

And I never criticized the Skyline on it's merits or it's sole claim to the GT-R moniker - I simply said "if you want the name back - let's race for it".

:D

killer66
04-05-2004, 06:09 PM
I cant see the pics

tigerx
04-05-2004, 06:18 PM
I cant see the pics


it's right there, check it, it's not on the main page of this post.

and btw, DAM that's a nice mustang, i especially like the grille :D so nice, i don't like the wing though a little ricey to me, american muscle car shouldn't have rear spoilers. this car kinda remind me of the old BOSS mustang.

tuffguy
04-05-2004, 08:08 PM
RC45 - i think remember ford slapping "GT-R" on something at an autoshow a while back. ford has the focus, and i know that GM's been going pretty hard after the import crowd. didn't they display an autocross version of the grand prix as well?

"catering to the import crowd" should indicate disapproval, not that i'm a fan.

RC45
04-05-2004, 08:22 PM
RC45 - i think remember ford slapping "GT-R" on something at an autoshow a while back. ford has the focus, and i know that GM's been going pretty hard after the import crowd. didn't they display an autocross version of the grand prix as well?

"catering to the import crowd" should indicate disapproval, not that i'm a fan.

So what do you drive?

blah
04-05-2004, 09:40 PM
When did autocross become associated with Imports?

666fast
04-05-2004, 10:45 PM
Lots more pics for those that want them. I think it looks great. The spoiler isn't all that great, but at leasts it's functional. I guess if I were to have one as a street car, the first thing to go would be the spoiler.


http://www.autoindex.org/images/news/806/norm_1_orig.jpg
http://www.autoindex.org/images/news/806/norm_2_orig.jpg
http://www.autoindex.org/images/news/806/norm_3_orig.jpg
http://www.autoindex.org/images/news/806/norm_4_orig.jpg
http://www.autoindex.org/images/news/806/norm_5_orig.jpg
http://www.autoindex.org/images/news/806/norm_6_orig.jpg
http://www.autoindex.org/images/news/806/norm_7_orig.jpg
http://www.autoindex.org/images/news/806/norm_8_orig.jpg
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2004_newyork/mustang/images/1.jpg
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2004_newyork/mustang/images/2.jpg
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2004_newyork/mustang/images/3.jpg
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2004_newyork/mustang/images/B07u3751.jpg
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2004_newyork/mustang/images/MustangGT-RConcept_06.jpg
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2004_newyork/mustang/images/MustangGT-RConcept_32.jpg
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2004_newyork/mustang/images/MustangGT-RConcept_34.jpg
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2004_newyork/mustang/images/rear1.jpg
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2004_newyork/mustang/images/z_undercarriage.jpg
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2004_newyork/mustang/images/z_undercarriage2.jpg
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2004_newyork/mustang/images/z_zbadge.jpg

T-Bird
04-05-2004, 10:50 PM
fuck yes that is a nice looking car they really went all out on the details gotta love the full length headers too. not too many racecars with O2 sensors though. I like the spoiler very Cobra-R like.

SL55 AMG
04-05-2004, 11:02 PM
wow very nice set of pictures, and in reference to my previous post it wasn't to upset anyone just my opinion, and to elaborate further i mainly have an issue with the styling of the cars, this and the GT40 resemble too much their predecessors for me thats all, but hell everyone else seems to like them, i am just one of those few :wink: . Nice to see these future concepts compared to the cars :roll: they produce now

RC45
04-05-2004, 11:30 PM
wow very nice set of pictures, and in reference to my previous post it wasn't to upset anyone just my opinion, and to elaborate further i mainly have an issue with the styling of the cars, this and the GT40 resemble too much their predecessors for me thats all, but hell everyone else seems to like them, i am just one of those few :wink: . Nice to see these future concepts compared to the cars :roll: they produce now

Hey - no problem - everyone is entitled to their own opinion.. ;)

...just be sure you can stand the heat of the ensuing debate after you make you opinion know... LOL :lol:

dutchmasterflex
04-06-2004, 01:24 AM
dead picture links? or is that just me..

RC45
04-06-2004, 01:34 AM
dead picture links? or is that just me..

They have been reposted on page 2 - I guess you didn't bother to follow the discussion either... ;)

StanAE86
04-07-2004, 02:23 AM
Damn...thanks for all the pics. The thing definately rocks.

Just a side note, as for comparisons of apples to apples and Mine's Skyline to the Mustang GT-R, I see the Mustang as a factory car since it's being produced by Ford, straight out of the box, even though it's basically a race car. If you want to compare it to Mine's Skyline, then you have to let a tuner get a hold of the Mustang and pump it more...it would definately be one heck of a shoot out!

hemi_fan
04-07-2004, 04:49 PM
I think it looks really good, except the spoiler makes it look kinda like a Honda. lol

tigerx
04-07-2004, 05:01 PM
go to www.highresautoimages.com for high resolution picture of this car, the original boss mustang also have the spoiler. this car is like a reincarnation of the boss. Can't wait for more info

HeilSvenska
04-07-2004, 07:15 PM
Rather strange...even the suffix GTR doesn't really work with a mustang...

Sp00ln
04-07-2004, 07:28 PM
God that thing is BAD ASS

possessed_beaver
04-08-2004, 12:44 AM
God that thing is BAD ASS

i don't see it winning any beauty contests either.

tigerx
04-08-2004, 03:40 PM
Rather strange...even the suffix GTR doesn't really work with a mustang...


wut do you mean it don't work with a mustang????


i don't see it winning any beauty contests either.


it did in my world ;)
this is a beautiful car except for the big spoiler

RC45
04-08-2004, 07:37 PM
Actually - as with the 2000 Conbra-R - the functional spoiler makes the car... ;)

novass
04-08-2004, 07:46 PM
I like it except for the exhaust. The wing I dont mind so much because its at least functional and you have a beefy V8 to back it up as opposed to the normal fart cannon UFO with a wing that vibrates at anything over 10mph. Other than that, paint it black and thats one Mustang I wouldnt mind driving...and I dont say that very much LOL

EDIT: On second thought, I looked at the photos again and I quite like the orange with the carbon hood. Still dont like the exhaust though, if that were mine I would just dump it at the axle, shave the spot smooth and go tear some shit up.

RC45
04-08-2004, 08:45 PM
Nah - you want that side exhaust to melt the plastic body panels of the do-gooder hybrid parked next to you at the lights... ;)

novass
04-08-2004, 08:51 PM
LOL With the exhaust aimed at the ground I figured a few good high rpm revs would be enough to just rattle the panels off.

nthfinity
04-09-2004, 12:57 AM
some more pics from the new york auto show..... :) !!!!
http://a137.g.akamai.net/n/137/3538/20040407231032/www.cars.com/features/autoshows/2004/newyork/coverage/images/ford_mustang_gtr_concept_frontangle_jf_430.jpghttp ://a137.g.akamai.net/n/137/3538/20040407231032/www.cars.com/features/autoshows/2004/newyork/coverage/images/ford_mustang_gtr_concept_side2_jf_430.jpg
http://a137.g.akamai.net/n/137/3538/20040407231032/www.cars.com/features/autoshows/2004/newyork/coverage/images/ford_mustang_gtr_concept_side1_jf_430.jpghttp://a137.g.akamai.net/n/137/3538/20040407231032/www.cars.com/features/autoshows/2004/newyork/coverage/images/ford_mustang_gtr_concept_frontangleaction_mfr_430. jpg

blah
04-09-2004, 03:38 AM
Hey RC what you think of the Cammer? its pushing more power than ur precious LS1/LS2/LS6?

RC45
04-09-2004, 06:19 AM
Hey RC what you think of the Cammer? its pushing more power than ur precious LS1/LS2/LS6?

It's not yet for sale and isn't on the street yet... don't compare our old to your new... ;)

blah
04-09-2004, 07:33 AM
Suck my ass. 0X :wink: also ur LS2 is new. so again suck my ass. :twisted:

RC45
04-09-2004, 08:11 AM
Suck my ass. 0X :wink: also ur LS2 is new. so again suck my ass. :twisted:

Your point? The LS2 is the "hairdressers" coupe and vert motor.. not the upcoming Z06 motor...

...besides - what's the point of the cammer anyway - if the regular 'stang can't turn worth a damn anyway :D - hell even the "SVT Slowbra" struggles to turn left after the 1/4 mile run - what's it gonna do through a set of S-bends... ??? ;)

nthfinity
04-09-2004, 01:53 PM
blah wrote:
Suck my ass. also ur LS2 is new. so again suck my ass.


Your point? The LS2 is the "hairdressers" coupe and vert motor.. not the upcoming Z06 motor...

...besides - what's the point of the cammer anyway - if the regular 'stang can't turn worth a damn anyway - hell even the "SVT Slowbra" struggles to turn left after the 1/4 mile run - what's it gonna do through a set of S-bends... ???


hmm..... slow down for them of course :wink: and im quite sure the "hairdressers" coupe isnt for hairdressers in 6 speed configuration :mrgreen:

the "camer" engine is availiable now for a small price of almost 15,000 $ usd....... soo, what if i put it in my jeep :twisted:

blah
04-09-2004, 03:42 PM
Suck my ass. 0X :wink: also ur LS2 is new. so again suck my ass. :twisted:

Your point? The LS2 is the "hairdressers" coupe and vert motor.. not the upcoming Z06 motor...

...besides - what's the point of the cammer anyway - if the regular 'stang can't turn worth a damn anyway :D - hell even the "SVT Slowbra" struggles to turn left after the 1/4 mile run - what's it gonna do through a set of S-bends... ??? ;)

Once again u forget to acknowledge the fact of the Cobra badge. And the 4.6 liter has needed to be replaced for a long time. And its not my fault that americans cars cant handle, and once they reach any turns they just blow the fuck up. I mean i saw a Chevy trying to turn right the other day, and i saw a huge explosion, stupid person he tried to take the turn at 15 mph wtf was he thinking. Also so now the Corvette is a hairdressers car? I thought the Boxster was.

RC45
04-09-2004, 04:08 PM
blah wrote:
Suck my ass. also ur LS2 is new. so again suck my ass.


Your point? The LS2 is the "hairdressers" coupe and vert motor.. not the upcoming Z06 motor...

...besides - what's the point of the cammer anyway - if the regular 'stang can't turn worth a damn anyway - hell even the "SVT Slowbra" struggles to turn left after the 1/4 mile run - what's it gonna do through a set of S-bends... ???


hmm..... slow down for them of course :wink: and im quite sure the "hairdressers" coupe isnt for hairdressers in 6 speed configuration :mrgreen:

the "camer" engine is availiable now for a small price of almost 15,000 $ usd....... soo, what if i put it in my jeep :twisted:

I will put a $6,000 LS6 in MY jeep - and still have $9,000 for mods... ;)

nthfinity
04-09-2004, 09:16 PM
I will put a $6,000 LS6 in MY jeep - and still have $9,000 for mods...


obviosly i was kidding..... with 15000$$ i woudn't likely be driving a jeep...

no doubt the camer is a good engine...... and the LS6 is proven good.

RC45
04-09-2004, 09:29 PM
I will put a $6,000 LS6 in MY jeep - and still have $9,000 for mods...


obviosly i was kidding..... with 15000$$ i woudn't likely be driving a jeep...

no doubt the camer is a good engine...... and the LS6 is proven good.

Yep - you see this last issue of Hot Rod, they had the 3 Ford showcars used to diplay use for their new cammer crate motor?

An F100 (I seem to recall) Panel Vane Delivery (in UPS colours), a Mustang (again I am sure) and a V8 Focus... :twisted: :twisted:

chest3r
04-13-2004, 06:07 PM
WOW!!!!

This car is absolutly AMAZING :shock: :shock: :shock:
The normal one was good but this is even better

blah
04-13-2004, 07:04 PM
a man could do big things with a V-8 Focus :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Akmon
04-18-2004, 03:33 AM
This car is so cool,so powerfull,so beautifull,I just love
it

Sm@ck
04-18-2004, 04:12 AM
I like it alot, I cant wait to see it on the streets! I really hope they will make it like this...

My fear is, at one point someone at Ford (some exec, or marketing man) will come along and say "what no airconditioning, no cup holders, no carpet, no radio etc..." eventually this thing will be like a corvette. Still a fast sports car, but more a "comfortable heavy sportscar" (like a Porsche 911). As opposed to being a 911 GT-3, a TVR.....
Concept cars always look sexy, but once the carmakers plan to release teh car, they become more realistic, and start cutting corners...
We will see, what I see now I definetly like.

blah
04-18-2004, 04:30 AM
i dont get ur corvette analogy/ :?

Sm@ck
04-18-2004, 09:52 AM
i dont get ur corvette analogy/ :?

I am sorry, I am not a native english speaker. What I meant to say with the analogy.

Right now the Ford concept, is like a Porsche GT-3, or BMW M3 CSL, these cars are reduced to the minimum (actually the Ford concept takes it further, no carpets, etc...). So they really have a very light sports car.

However I believe that if they will sell/produce the car, the car will end up more like a Corvette or Porsche 911. In that from teh outside the car will still look similiar, but the inside will be made a lot more comfortable, less raw. They will add more comfortable seats, and possibly aircoditoning etc. This however will make the car more heavier, and make this car less sporty, imo. It will appear to a greater crowd, but would make the car less intresting for me.

RC45
04-18-2004, 10:00 AM
i dont get ur corvette analogy/ :?

I am sorry, I am not a native english speaker. What I meant to say with the analogy.

Right now the Ford concept, is like a Porsche GT-3, or BMW M3 CSL, these cars are reduced to the minimum (actually the Ford concept takes it further, no carpets, etc...). So they really have a very light sports car.

However I believe that if they will sell/produce the car, the car will end up more like a Corvette or Porsche 911. In that from teh outside the car will still look similiar, but the inside will be made a lot more comfortable, less raw. They will add more comfortable seats, and possibly aircoditoning etc. This however will make the car more heavier, and make this car less sporty, imo. It will appear to a greater crowd, but would make the car less intresting for me.

But that is the whole point of the Z06 and the 911 Turbo and the F360 - fantastic performance while retaining enough user friendlyness - making them usable as daily drivers[.

Remember the GT-R Mustang is a "race car version" of the street Mustang - which even in GT form is overweight and is not best handeling coupe on the road.

You have you analogy backwards - the fact that they have to take the Mustang and strip it completely bare of all usable features and modify it into a "race car" just to compete (performance wise) with the likes of the Z06 and 911 Turbo and F360 actually show how good the Z06 and 911 and 360 are in those terms.

This does not detract from the GT-R being a nice car - it is just the reality of using the Mustang as the base for "super car performance".

The last full race-spec Cobra-R in 2000 is the same story - they had to hand-build 300 cars that were essentially street legal GT race cars - just to get a Mustang that could compete with the Viper GTS and the Z06.

Make sense?

bmagni
04-22-2004, 03:51 PM
FINALLY FORD IS DOING SOMETHING GOOD

Schwalbe
04-23-2004, 02:03 PM
a man could do big things with a V-8 Focus :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

This is not a Focus V8, but this video shows a Focus Cosworth RWD. :)

http://www.lueneburg.net/vereine/fo...ossie_focus.wmv

Schwalbe
04-23-2004, 02:07 PM
Oops sorry this is the good link:

http://www.lueneburg.net/vereine/fordclub/layout/download/a1_cossie_focus.wmv