Manuals, Doomed?

[Chaos in 1983!]

Everyday automakers come up with other ways of transmitions...auto, smg, paddle, drive by wire,etc...do you think someday we´ll see the end of the manual transmition as we know it? because I think that would be very very sad...

[novass]

I sure hope not. Even if I do decide to buy a new car with an automatic, I would at least like to have the option.

[Imre]

As long as there are such carmakers like TVR there will be also manual gearboxes.But i think big car companies eventually stop making manuals.

[deth]

i dont think they're gonna go anywhere. IMO the reason we're seeing a lot of paddle-shift/semi-autos arund now, is just they're the cool new thing. Its just a fad. As long as there's demand for pure manuals, the manufacturers will continue to make them

[cho_888]

i dam well hope you are right death

[dropot2]

I think that pitily manual transmission will disappear...that will be a disaster for those people who love driving. I think that there's a clear example of this future. Recently I've been in the Motorshow of Ginebra and I see a Citro??n C2 with paddles!!! That shows that the cost of putting this kind of technology is decreasing and I think the tendence is to replace manual transmission with these new devices.
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SUZUKI GV1400 CAVALCADE (http://www.suzuki-tech.com/wiki/Suzuki_GV1400_Cavalcade)

[na2o]

SMG, steptronic, tiptronic, semi-automatic, TCS, ASC, ABS, DSC, valve-tronic.....man ...car companies are gettin new ideas everyday that they're making it hard for ppl to keep up with them

[adlinyusman]

i think a manual transmission will start to be a 'cost' option. ie, you have to pay to have it fitted to your car, which is unfortunate. I've driven/been in almost every single semi automatic system (aside from the vanquish that is), and nothing beats the thrill of driving the manual. Besides nothing beats dipping the clutch and revving the engine while your passing by.

[TT]

Probably one day everybody will drive electric or fuel cell cars, automatic trannies for everybody of course... so let's enjoy our cars now :D

[dropot2]

A positive point of view... :wink: but you've drawn a terrifying future!! :shock:
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Marijuana Vaporizers (http://weedvaporizers.org/)

[TT]

I don't want it to happen, but we have to admit it actually will one day.. maybe not in 5 or 10 years.. more like 50 or even 100 hopefully... but it will happen..

If you think about the situation even only 20 years ago, with catalizers mandatory and so on... it's more than likely to see finally fuell cell cars become the normal thing :(

We could be one of the last generations experiencing the true driving pleasure :D

[italian_stalion_32]

i really hope that that doesnt happend... thats one of the greatest things about a
sports car... although the paddle is a more efficient way, the stick is alot funner

[nejcdolinsek]

No, it won't happen, at least until the clients demand manuals... I think Ferrari will always provide classical transmissions to their customers.

[davmac]

as long as they are cheaper, econocars will always have them.

[BADMIHAI]

as long as they are cheaper, econocars will always have them.



But that's the problem: semi-autos are becoming cheaper and cheaper. I hate semi-autos. Manual all the way!

[TT]

What about Smart? Cheap and small citycar... no manual...
The new C2 with Sensodrive? they are trying to make ppl buy only the cars with it as an option :(

[SPEEDKILLAR]

FUCK manual :!: :!: :!:










No no, just kidding, wanted to cause you guys a heart attack :wink:

[dropot2]

... I think Ferrari will always provide classical transmissions to their customers.

I think the last Ferrari models don't have the option of classical manual transmission. Enzo and Scaglietti they are only built with paddles, no manual...
:(
________
Ducati Multistrada 1000S Ds (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Ducati_Multistrada_1000s_DS)

[Chingachgook]

The future will be horrible wothout manual cars with fly by wire steering, brakes and throttle...I don't want to think to that

[Chaos in 1983!]

IMO sadly they will become obsolete...maybe 50 years or so...but manuals will die...if you take a look at all the new concepts, none of them come with manual trannies...all come with some high tech transmition....

and yes everyday we see more supercars w/o manuals...which is kind of dumb...because in a supercar you´re supposed to be connected to the car more than in any other car...and autos and semi auto ruins the feeling...

[rallyprox]

good point i despize driving automatics. on the otherside of the fencei love driving manuals actually every one that i have driven i was having fun. it is a different feeling while driving a manual compared to driving and automatic. but i was actually hoping that is the future there would be a reaguar manual transmission tht was also linked to paddle shifters and an automatic computer. the computer would be able to control the gear box or turned off for paddle shifters or for the classical stick. i thinkthat this would be an awsome pprtion for fun adn speed since now a days the new automatics shift faster that humans can and you would still be able to select manual and have fun with thge car. the best of both worlds.

[rallyprox]

FUCK manual

i am not sure if you are serious or not but manuals are the best in my opinion which i think very highly of.

[TT]

FUCK manual

i am not sure if you are serious or not but manuals are the best in my opinion which i think very highly of.

If I'm not wrong in his next line he said he was joking :roll:

[rallyprox]

ahahah sorry i did not read that i was blinded by the quote "FUCK manual"

[FerrariFerrari]

You never know what the future holds, but I wouldn't
be so quick to say that it will only be bad. All that is
happening is change. more than a hundred years ago
people were having the same conversation about carriages
verses cars and I'm sure that many people thought
that driving a carriage was much funner and that they
were better, but know more than a hundred years
later were having no less fun in our cars than they had
in there carriages. Who's to say that one day we won't
be traveling around in our own flying crafts having a blast
doing, well, I'm not quite sure what we'll be doing for fun,
but one hundred years ago people had no concept of
power slides so I'm sure we'll invent new fun moves to
do in our flying crafts to.

And don't worry, you will still be able to take a drive
in a car just like you can still take a ride in a hoarse
and buggy today even though they aren't used for trans-
portation anymore.

[ultramanluder]

No manual would really takes the fun out of driving for me, but I don't think it will ever go away. All of these paddle shifters are mostly originated from car manufactures taking Formula 1 technology and putting it into a production car to hype it up. I think it's just a trendy thing now, plus it's for rich people that can afford an exotic but don't know how to drive manuals :D

[TT]

Oh and BTW, as long as used cars will be around, we will have a nice supply of manual cars for years and years :D

[rallyprox]

good point tt i was about to say that and
No manual would really takes the fun out of driving for me, but I don't think it will ever go away. All of these paddle shifters are mostly originated from car manufactures taking Formula 1 technology and putting it into a production car to hype it up. I think it's just a trendy thing now, plus it's for rich people that can afford an exotic but don't know how to drive manuals

arn't you contradicting your self saying "No manual would really takes the fun out of driving for me" then going on to say "but don't know how to drive manuals" if i where you id learn as soon as possible because i would hate to think of what life would be like not knowing how to drive a stick.

[ultramanluder]

good point tt i was about to say that and
No manual would really takes the fun out of driving for me, but I don't think it will ever go away. All of these paddle shifters are mostly originated from car manufactures taking Formula 1 technology and putting it into a production car to hype it up. I think it's just a trendy thing now, plus it's for rich people that can afford an exotic but don't know how to drive manuals

arn't you contradicting your self saying "No manual would really takes the fun out of driving for me" then going on to say "but don't know how to drive manuals" if i where you id learn as soon as possible because i would hate to think of what life would be like not knowing how to drive a stick.

You should really learn how to read people's posts before start flaming them. First you flamed Speedkillar without reading his entire post. Now you're flaming me without reading my post properly. Where in it's for rich people that can afford an exotic but don't know how to drive manuals do you find that I said "I" don't know how to drive manual? :roll:

[rallyprox]

i appologize from now on i wil do my bet to read through each persons post before replying , but in my defence i was not "flaming" you i was meerly trying to tell you that you should learn how to drive a manual befopre posting. i did not mean to be meen to you in any way or anyone else. i appologze again.

[blah]

WE STILL HAVE BMW :shock: :shock: and your American domestics. BMW has the Manual standard on their 5 series, and the M3 its standard too! Damn them though for putting SMG in the M5

[rallyprox]

what the m5 isnt a manual any more? oh well i dont like then new ones anyways even thought they are more powerfull.

[Zonda11]

How does "drive by wire" work?

[FerrariFerrari]

Some people on this thread have stated that
pabble shifters are a trend and are hyped and
will soon die off. I couldn't dissagree with you
more. First off they aren't hyped, their advantages
have been proven time and time again. And
if they are indeed better than a manual, and they
are, why would they go away, it just doesn't make
sence. :?

[FerrariFerrari]

How does "drive by wire" work?

Here is an article that should answer your question. :)
http://www.quinion.com/words/turnsofphrase/tp-dri1.htm

[ultramanluder]

Don't get me wrong, it's been proven that electronic shifting is much more efficient than any human being can ever be. But I still think it's somewhat hyped.

[FerrariFerrari]

Don't get me wrong, it's been proven that electronic shifting is much more efficient than any human being can ever be. But I still think it's somewhat hyped.

What are your reasons for thinking it's hyped? :?

[rallyprox]

awsome pic zonda11 would you perhaps have a larger one
and drive by wire from myunderstand works by electronically detercting say the position of the sterign wheel or the paddle shifters an d then the computer uses that infromation to control the gad braked steering shifting etc. the technology was originally developed for use in the f-117 nighthawk i believe because it was so unstable that a pilot would not be able to fly it, and the computer makes tiny adjustments extreemly fast to control the plane in the air

[ultramanluder]

Don't get me wrong, it's been proven that electronic shifting is much more efficient than any human being can ever be. But I still think it's somewhat hyped.

What are your reasons for thinking it's hyped? :?
No reason really, just my own opinion, not worth much. :D

[SFDMALEX]

Guys the problem is that 98% of the population are not car enthusiats like us. As long as Ferrari and Lamborghini are out there, we will have manuals. Hence both Ferrari and Lambo offer manuals with all their cars. Saying that Enzo does not come with a manual is irrelivant since enzo is an F1 car for the road. And there havent been any F1s with H patterns for over 10 years. Lambo offers the Galardo with a stick...

[Zonda11]

awsome pic zonda11 would you perhaps have a larger one
and drive by wire from myunderstand works by electronically detercting say the position of the sterign wheel or the paddle shifters an d then the computer uses that infromation to control the gad braked steering shifting etc. the technology was originally developed for use in the f-117 nighthawk i believe because it was so unstable that a pilot would not be able to fly it, and the computer makes tiny adjustments extreemly fast to control the plane in the air

Ya I have a larger one..... http://www.tomahawks.ca/Jabba/f40lm3.jpg

[Tomerville]

That is an awsome pic Zonda; F40's are gorgeous cars.

[RC45]

Some people on this thread have stated that
pabble shifters are a trend and are hyped and
will soon die off. I couldn't dissagree with you
more. First off they aren't hyped, their advantages
have been proven time and time again. And
if they are indeed better than a manual, and they
are, why would they go away, it just doesn't make
sence. :?

Maybe in nthe world of F1 - but NOT in the real world... every seen the Best Motoring where they put the Evo ??? and 360 and BMW (I think) paddle shifters vs the stick shifters on the same track?

Yes - you guessed it - the paddles lost out big time - for ordinary folks sticks are quicker and easier...

[blah]

Anyways what does the average joe need to shift .0001 of a second for anyways? Its all about bieng one with the car.

[adlinyusman]

... I think Ferrari will always provide classical transmissions to their customers.

I think the last Ferrari models don't have the option of classical manual transmission. Enzo and Scaglietti they are only built with paddles, no manual...
:(

so does the CS and maybe even the upcoming Monza/Mugello.

[Chaos in 1983!]

I really don't need to shift faster than I already do, so I couldn't care less for smg, or paddle shifting in 0.000000001 seconds, carmakers should always offer manuals for their cars...that's why I hate MB...all their top of the range cars are only available in auto...


so does the CS and maybe even the upcoming Monza/Mugello.

what what what...? Monza/Mugello? what's that? new Ferrari?

[Tomerville]

I really don't need to shift faster than I already do, so I couldn't care less for smg, or paddle shifting in 0.000000001 seconds, carmakers should always offer manuals for their cars...that's why I hate MB...all their top of the range cars are only available in auto...

Manual all the way...there is a pretty long time from the button is pressed till the actual gear is shifter because pressing the button isn't all that quick. The lag is displayed well in Martin Brundle's Super Car DVD.

[rallyprox]

man i dont know why but i really like the f40 with those y spokes thanks for the pic. and my take on padle shifters, i would take them any day but id first take a regualr stick there is just something more many whith having to drive with one hand while banging through the geers.

[Chaos in 1983!]

of course, paddles must be safer because you don't take your hands off the wheel...but MANUAL RULES!

[BADMIHAI]

That is an awsome pic Zonda; F40's are gorgeous cars.

Yes, it is. I'm pretty sure that car is a F40 replica. I just have a feeling it is. Is it so, Hubie?

[deth]

and lets not forget that a manual transmission can be updated as well ie the zeroshift concept (http://www.pistonheadstv.com/images/ZeroShift_RacecarEng_0204.pdf)

[BADMIHAI]

and lets not forget that a manual transmission can be updated as well ie the zeroshift concept (http://www.pistonheadstv.com/images/ZeroShift_RacecarEng_0204.pdf)

That is seriously impressive!

[jkofinas]

I agree manuals will never be phased out, but the problem is that with traffic being what it is, many people find it difficult to and tiresome to get around in a big city....My advice to them get two cars :wink:

[jkofinas]

really don't need to shift faster than I already do, so I couldn't care less for smg, or paddle shifting in 0.000000001 seconds, carmakers should always offer manuals for their cars...that's why I hate MB...all their top of the range cars are only available in auto...

Hey chaos, Just wondering if the myth that mb doesnt have a manual gearbox b/c it cant handle the torque is true?

[rallyprox]

Yes, it is. I'm pretty sure that car is a F40 replica. I just have a feeling it is. Is it so, Hubie?

omg you might be right looking at the door it looks like it is not ferrari quality and the bottom of the car doesnt look smooth as ferraris usually look.

[Leo_M3]

I really hope that manuals dont die off.

Automatics have already taken the majority of the market and now we have newer types of trannies taking over as well.

Manuals will die and will continue to die however there will always be some cars out there with mannies 8)

[blah]

of course, paddles must be safer because you don't take your hands off the wheel...but MANUAL RULES!

Not when your in a turn, and u have to look down to find the shift paddle button.

[FerrariFerrari]

Maybe in nthe world of F1 - but NOT in the real world... every seen the Best Motoring where they put the Evo ??? and 360 and BMW (I think) paddle shifters vs the stick shifters on the same track?

Yes - you guessed it - the paddles lost out big time - for ordinary folks sticks are quicker and easier...

Hmmm, that is quite an interesting thing. I have not seen
those vids, but For some reason I have sneaky suspicion that
the tests were not fair. :?





I don't see any reason to think that that F40 is a replica.
Perhaps the reason it looks like a replica is that it's the F40
LM. If it is a replica it's a pretty good one, most F40 replicas
have hoods that are way way longer than they're supposed
to be.


and the bottom of the car doesnt look smooth as ferraris usually look.

How the heck did you see that. :? From the angle the photo is
taken from I can't even see the bottom of the car. You must
have extra good eyes.

[DMbaseball1604]

yeah I hope that car manufactuers dont get rid of manuals, it would take away from the driving experience...the only reason there is such a huge demand for formula one style paddle shifts is because thats what they use in F1 and the reason those teams use the paddles is because they are a lot faster..but for pure driving fun manuals are the best thing around

[RC45]

Maybe in nthe world of F1 - but NOT in the real world... every seen the Best Motoring where they put the Evo ??? and 360 and BMW (I think) paddle shifters vs the stick shifters on the same track?

Yes - you guessed it - the paddles lost out big time - for ordinary folks sticks are quicker and easier...

Hmmm, that is quite an interesting thing. I have not seen
those vids, but For some reason I have sneaky suspicion that
the tests were not fair. :?

Look for yourself:

http://www.racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=75&p=3

[rallyprox]

Ok I did not know it was a LM, actually i did not know there was a LM version, I thought it was just a reace version.. But as far as i know the Lm version still has the black molding around the front of the car? I am right now comparing a known real f40 against this one and there is a few other small differences like the hood latch is red on this one and hte normal f40 it is black. And another quite noticable thing is the reer wing which is not the stock wing but i am not sure if the LM is supposed to have this wing. I have noticed a similar wing on a few different f40s but didnt think much of it. Also the windows which i am pretty sure on the race version do not rool down but have a slide back portion which i am not sure if the LM is this way or not. These are a few things i noticed. Correct me if i am wrong.

[FerrariFerrari]

Ok I did not know it was a LM, actually i did not know there was a LM version, I thought it was just a reace version.. But as far as i know the Lm version still has the black molding around the front of the car? I am right now comparing a known real f40 against this one and there is a few other small differences like the hood latch is red on this one and hte normal f40 it is black. And another quite noticable thing is the reer wing which is not the stock wing but i am not sure if the LM is supposed to have this wing. I have noticed a similar wing on a few different f40s but didnt think much of it. Also the windows which i am pretty sure on the race version do not rool down but have a slide back portion which i am not sure if the LM is this way or not. These are a few things i noticed. Correct me if i am wrong.

Actually now that I look at it I don't think that it's an LM. It has some
LM parts but there are several serious differences like the small air
intake just aft of the big one that goes between the door and the rear
fender which is not on the LM and you're right about the black molding.
And now that I think of it I do remember seing a very spectacular replica
Ferrari F40 at a car show that looked just like this one. :?: I'll try and
find soom pics of this replica.

[rallyprox]

awsome detective work

[RC45]

ACtually you are both wrong.. ;)

That is (I am 100%) sure Roland Linders Ferrari F40 - which was rebuilt from a burned wreck and resurrected as an LM. ;)

[rallyprox]

resurrected as an LM.

Wouldn't that mean we are right in saying that it is not a LM though?

And how are you sure it is Roland Linders wrecked f40?

[RC45]

resurrected as an LM.

Wouldn't that mean we are right in saying that it is not a LM though?

And how are you sure it is Roland Linders wrecked f40?

For one thing - his name is one the window.. ;) and second there are lots of pics of that car on the net..

Recognize it?

http://www.z06vette.com/gallery/data/500/3648f40lm.jpg

http://www.fast-autos.net/ferrari/ferrarif40lm.html

[rallyprox]

ahaha after all of my keen inspections i missed the name in the window. oh well it is of little matter to i don't have the money to buy one anyways. Even though his name is in the bottom corner of the window my mind is not yet made up wether it is real or not.

[RC45]

ahaha after all of my keen inspections i missed the name in the window. oh well it is of little matter to i don't have the money to buy one anyways. Even though his name is in the bottom corner of the window my mind is not yet made up wether it is real or not.

Did you actually visit the link to the page with pictures (including your one) of the car?

Do a google search on his name and F40 and you will find articles about his rebuild of the car.. ;)

[rallyprox]

oh sorry i didnt realizt hta twas a link i thought it was just your profile i am looking now

[rallyprox]

i see his car now and i noticed that the LM also have large vents in the hood. which the regualr f40 doesnt have. They are awsome every tiem i see them i think they are more awsome. I now believe you that it is a real f40 LM.

[SFDMALEX]

ohh and those who say that paddles are the fastest way around are wrong. They are essential if F1 because things just change to rapidly but in GTs and road cars thats not the case.


H pattern is way better when it comes to braking and engine braking in particullar. If you are heading down a straight and aproache a hair pin, you got from 6th to 4th to 2nd, and trust me, thats way faster then going down gear at the time. Plus your just way freeir with manual. You can up shift two gears a time etc etc etc.

If you put a very good driver in a manual against a very good one in F1 they will both have the same time or the manual will win.

In a race you need full control. You need to be able to manupilate the car the way you want it....