M3 vs. M5

[rift321]

So the other day I go over to the local BMW dealership. I start talking w/ this older salesman and we get into this discussion about beemers. I'm a big fan of BMW cuz they built the McLaren's engine.

Anyway, I'm convinced that the M3 is the best driving machine they have (besides the obvious exceptions of the alpina, Z8, etc.). I tell him I love the new M3's and i'm a big fan of them. He then brings me to this couple year-old M5 and he really likes it. I ask what is the better driving machine, and he says the 4-door, black M5, even though the M3 can go faster in less time, and probably has better handling characteristics. I can't really DISAGREE w/ the salesman who's probably been doing his job for a while, but WTF. I'm noticeably oppinionated and ask him whats up with the RX-8 tieing the M3 around the track and costing way less. That kinda ruined my chances for a test drive.

Someone please make me understand this point of view. He said the M5 was more stable at high speeds, but that's like saying a boeing 747 is more stable than an F-22. I had to tell car people about this cuz it pissed me off.

Post it up...[/img]

[nchs09]

i rather have a M3 than a Alpina..... the longer and wider a car is, the more stable
m5 is wider and longer than a m3

[Caplax40]

Move this to car chat!

[nchs09]

^^^ calm the fuk down, ur new here and giving orders

[cho_888]

yes your both new here, i'm waiting for TT to tell me of now

[nchs09]

haha.... so tt will telu off and then jabba will bitch at tt, AND THEN.. who bitches at god jabba? :wink: :mrgreen:

[cho_888]

now jabba dosnt bitch at TT, TT is like jesus. Always knows want god wants.

[DeMoN]

now jabba dosnt bitch at TT, TT is like jesus. Always knows want god wants.

LOL Very nice way to approach the truth.

[nchs09]

ok i got pawned. :wink: ill get you back cho :)

[cho_888]

thanks mate, finally some one who appreiciates my work

[blah]

Jabbas Ex wife is the one that bitches at jabba. She is like Gods pain in the ass :cough cough: crazy ass religious freaks: cough cough:

[ae86_16v]

Different type of car for a different purpose. It might be just the simple truth that he has an family and finds the M5 more comfortable and we are young and sees the M3 is the ultimate sports car.

Both machines are awesome and benchmarks respectively for their class.

Personally I am 22, I wouldn't mind either car. I like the M5 a lot, but the E46 M3 w/ the 19" wheels are just so damn sexy. Titanium Silver M5 or Imola Red M3 please. :)

[kteo2003]

i wouldn't mind either of an M3 with these great 19"wheels....anyone to borrow me some money?????? :roll:

[BMW-M-Power]

The M5 WAS the best drivers machine BMW had, but then when BMW produced the new M3, they took all of the drivers experience from M5 and made them better before adding it to the M3. I myself is a huge BMW fan. Love the german brand, and other german brands for that matter. 8)

[kteo2003]

i think the ultimatedriver's maschine was the first M3.......and the new...id the reincarnation of the leggend..

[twboy1999]

m3 is faster around the track
m3 and m5 has around the same speed from stand still

but on highway that is where m5 shines....
m5 can hang with modena on the highway

[TT]

now jabba dosnt bitch at TT, TT is like jesus. Always knows want god wants.

HAHAHA, when I moved the topic I forgot to reply :D

LMAO cho_888 you made me laugh pretty hard :P

[firdausasri]

Basically shorter wheelbase car like the M3 will have better turn-in upon reaching corners but for a driver enjoyment, a slightly longer wheelbase like M5 is more ooozzes to that. You can enjoy the balance between tail stepping and counter steering hence longer the slide is. Just look for Tiff, he'll tell you the same thing. :)

[coombsie66]

Different type of car for a different purpose. It might be just the simple truth that he has an family and finds the M5 more comfortable and we are young and sees the M3 is the ultimate sports car.

Both machines are awesome and benchmarks respectively for their class.

Personally I am 22, I wouldn't mind either car. I like the M5 a lot, but the E46 M3 w/ the 19" wheels are just so damn sexy. Titanium Silver M5 or Imola Red M3 please. :)

I pass an M3 in that colour and those wheels evey day on the way to college, oh man it does look good!!! Oh and its gotta be lemans blue M5!

I think the M5 sounds nicer than the M3 (not the csl ofcourse!) and if driving experience encompasses the fact that you could comfortably take 4 of ur mates for the extreme driving experience wiv u, then thats got to be a winner for the M5??!?

[rift321]

Man that sucks.... BMW needs to get their act together then. I love the compactness and power of the M3 and the 5 just looks like a boat to me. I just can't invision a car of it's size really taking off like that.


Everso, you should've raced him longer.

Someone who has cash, or at least looks like they do, go to an BMW dealership and take some test drives or something and tell me about it. I want to find out which is better cuz i'm going to own one some day.

[coombsie66]

^^^^ Hmmmmmm, 5 litres, double vanos, loads and loads of lovely lovely torque!!!!!!!
M5 does pull like a stream train once its rolling! A heavy car to get off the line tho.

[StanAE86]

It's a matter of physics. A big mamma' jamma' like the M5 will never handle as well as an M3 with similar modiciations. You just can't do it with an extra 800lbs to lug around, and only 70hp more (E46 M3 with 333hp and E39 M5 with 400hp).

BMWs are the "Ultimate Driving Machine" because everything about the car is designed to bring about driving enjoyment. From the 318 to the Z8, they're all designed to come as close to a 50/50 split in weight difference, but no more than something like a 55/45. The motors are designed to rev and to live at Autobahn speeds without sweat and the chassis and suspension are designed to keep the car hugging the road.

While various cars may match the performance of a BMW, you have to always ask whether track times is the only concern you have. If so, my previous track car, a 1985 Corolla GT-S turbocharged to 230RWHP at 14psi of boost would kill most roadcars on a track and could run down the quarter mile in the 13s. But I wasn't able to drive it around town or to a club. And after stomping an FD RX7 on Buttonwillow Raceway Park, that guy sure didn't wish he had my car instead. But my car served the sole purpose of going fast on the track. Was it the ultimate driving machine then? Well, it was one hell of a track car.

I'm skeptical that an RX8 will rip off the same track times as an M3 on any of the premier road courses around the world. There's a reason you see the M3 in LeMans and the Speed Challenge Cup series. Put the RX8 and an M3 on Laguna Seca or the Nurburgring and I'm sure the M3 will leave the RX8. There is no doubt in my mind. As for price, the question is why is there a market demand that will justify a $55k M3 versus a $30k RX8? Why would a $55k RX8 not sell? Why does a $55k M3 sell? Why would you rather have an M3 than an RX8? I'm not knocking the RX8, but I'd rather have an M3. :D

Back to the orginal question of M3 vs. M5, it's really a matter of matching your taste with the car. Do you want a smaller edgier coupe? Or do you want a larger comfortable saloon? I wasn't choosing between the E46 and E39, I was a generation back and was choosing between the E36 and E34 M cars. At the end of the day, the M5 was the right choice for me. But, either way you go, with a BMW or better yet, with your choice of an M car, you'll be at the pinnacle of motoring enjoyment.

[astonmartinandy]

The m5 I think was really designed for people who wanted an m3 but needed the practicality of a saloon. The m3 would definitely be more of a driving experience and will be a raw experience. Then again both have legendary engines and I don;t think you would be disappointed with either!! The point about an m5 pulling at 130 mp/h is even more proof that the m5 is much more capable of auto-bahnstorming!

[rift321]

in summary...i would take an M5 anyday over an M3.

i think Jeremy Clarkson says it best when he says its embarassing to be in an M3. lol.

you look at the people driving E46 M3s, they're mostly pricks.....M5 drivers are much nicer.

very true... I would feel like a prick driving an M3 although it is a beautiful driving machine. I'm getting the impression that the M5 is more of the conniseur's car. I think it's more tasteful... however, the M3 seems like a much more fun toy :D.

[FerrariFerrari]

Different type of car for a different purpose.

That's exactly what I say. We are comparring apples to oranges here.

Incidently, I heard that they they going to make a modern day E30 M3,
if that's true it will probably be the best driving machine BMW ever made.

[twboy1999]

in summary...i would take an M5 anyday over an M3.

i think Jeremy Clarkson says it best when he says its embarassing to be in an M3. lol.

you look at the people driving E46 M3s, they're mostly pricks.....M5 drivers are much nicer.

very true... I would feel like a prick driving an M3 although it is a beautiful driving machine. I'm getting the impression that the M5 is more of the conniseur's car. I think it's more tasteful... however, the M3 seems like a much more fun toy :D.

i dun get it.. why would u feel like a prick driving a m3??
just dont look cocky like most teenage bmw driver

in toronto.. 70% of the m3 on the road, are ppl who are 25 and under driving it

and for m5. if u go to www.m5board.com u would realize, most ppl that own m5, own exotic cars, ferrari, lambo and etc,, they want m5 because it has good performance and can carrry 5 ppl.
they own sport cars before they own m5..

dunno waht my point was,, but just wanna say waht i said above

[BADMIHAI]

now jabba dosnt bitch at TT, TT is like jesus. Always knows want god wants.


Well..I'm orthodox (only officially...I really don't believe in God), so Jesus is God. God is Jesus (the sun) , the Father, and the Holy Spirit.

back on topic: I like the M3 better, because it's smaller, and lighter. Of course, the M5 is a badass sleeper :)

[rift321]

i agree with the whole feeling like a prick thing w/ the m3 only because of a little generalization.... I was down in Ft.Lauderdale last year and saw some cheap metrosexual peel out in his M3. I just didn't like the look, but i did like the car.

if i was under 30 and had the money for an M3 and an M5, I'd probably get the M3 and put some money into it, because I'm most likely going to be a prick until I'm at least 30. And not liking the guy peel out in Ft. Lauderdale was probably just out of jealousy. :?

I've contradicted myself at least 3 times on this topic. I think i'm done.

[Bigdaddytwon]

One word torque.. in order for the M3 to have the same displacement to weight ratio as the M5 it would have to be running almost a 4litre engine. Yes the M3 does put out more HP/la than the M5, and yes it will beat it (by a second or 2) on the track.. But in day to day driving on the street the M5 will feel faster (i'm guessing you're not going to gut the interior and go pure racing ). basicly the M3 will out corner the M5 hands down.. but the M5 will take it on corner exits every time because while the m3 makes close to its peak hp over a very small rpm range, the M5 will pull hard from anywhere.

When it comes down to it.. yes the m3 is faster but the m5 is easier to drive fast..

[rift321]

the m3 makes close to its peak hp over a very small rpm range, the M5 will pull hard from anywhere

good call man... it's still a boat tho... a sexy boat that's fast and corners well.

[sads]

M3 CSL all the way the cornering would be awsome..... but a V8 down the straght tough personaly i like the M3 stylling more

[kteo2003]

the M5 has a 5.0lt engine with 400bhp.and about 510nm of torgu......
the engine of the M3 is a diamond...has a 3.2lt engine and gives 343bhp for the standard and 360bhp for the csl at 7900rpm....

[Bigdaddytwon]

you know.. i have seen tuners in germay that put the S60 (m5 engine) into the E46 chassis. From what i hear its an amazing swap. That v8 is also capable of 470hp with no internal modifications (see Dinan S2 M5). From what i hear that would be the best of both worlds. But by then you would have a $100k m3..

[CMonakar]

I've driven an E46 M3 and a 540i 6spd (which is lighter than an M5). Based on my experience I would not call the M3 a nimble car. The M3 has less body roll on turn in than the 540i but I still got the sense that I was throwing around a lot of weight. The point being, I wouldn't make a choice between these cars based on agility-they all fall below the bar.

With this in mind I would take the M5 because I think the engine sounds much better than the M3's motor.

[StanAE86]

The tuners didn't actually start putting the V8 motor in the E46 until BMW race teams did it first in the American LeMans Series.

The M3 GTR was available for a short time in 2002. It was a factory E46 M3 with a 4.0L V8 motor to satisfy the regulations of the AMLS that required a "production car". Factory teams like Team PTG (Prototype Technologies Group) was trouncing Porsche with consistent 1, 2, 3 victories until Porsche started to make noise about the fact that BMW didn't have a factory M3 with a V8, even though they kept saying it was going to be built.

So, from the M factory, BMW punched out the minimum needed to satisfy the regulation and put out a short supply of roadcars with the V8 motors out. The GTR was kicking so much butt in the racing series, that they kept getting more and more weight added to slow them down until BMW pulled out of the series saying that it the GTR with the intake restrictors and additional ballast wasn't competitive anymore. They just came back this past year, but with the standard straight 6.

The purists will say that a "true" M car uses either a 4 cylinder or a straight 6 motor - because that's where it all started with the original M1 and E30 M3. Some were up in arms over the V8 when the E39 M5 came out. But BMW had to keep up with the power push to stay ahead of the game...hence the new E60 M5 which will have a rumored V10 and 500bhp. You can't make that power with a straight 6 and everyone from Benz to Audi to Jag putting out cars with over 400bhp left and right.

If you follow the AMLS series, you'll know that Audi has been kicking everyone's ass with their V8 RS6 SEDAN.

The new CSL uses some of the "tricks" they used for the GTR, including the carbon roof. The GTR was more of a "club racer" type of car with no ammenities, while the CSL is much more of a true "roadcar". In any case, read more about the GTR here:

http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/bmw_m3gtr.asp

http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/07/m3gtrstreet01_01.jpg
http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/07/m3gtrstreet01_inter.jpg
http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/07/m3gtrstreet01_engine.jpg
http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/07/m3gtrstreet01_04.jpg
http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/07/m3_gtr_competi4_800.jpg
http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/07/m3gtr_1.jpg

[coombsie66]

WOW, ive never seen the M3 GTR road car b4, that looks smart! I bet it goes like a well lubed dildo, up jenna jameson as well! Wikid car, no vids i spose!?

[dutchmasterflex]

both are damn nice.. wouldnt mind having either.. but if someone was to offer either car to me, i'd pick the M5 cause it's more expensive.. $30k more than the current M3

[StanAE86]

No vids of a GTR roadcar that I've ever found. I've seen pics of it in Europe and on some of the for sale boards there. I have seen the race car at Laguna Seca, before they left the series.

Dutch: If you're just talking about the cost, a M3 CSL will run you more than an E39 M5 (which is no longer in production). The GTR would run you about the same as some of the finer pracing horse and raging bull cars.

[rift321]

and what a terrible reason to pick one car over another... you're entitled to your opinion, but picking cars based strictly on cost seems stupid to me.

[FerrariFerrari]

and what a terrible reason to pick one car over another... you're entitled to your opinion, but picking cars based strictly on cost seems stupid to me.

I think he meant if someone just gave him the car. I'd do the same and then
sell it.

As for the M3 GTR, I don't see any reason for why it should cost so much,
I mean, it doesn't exactly have a lot of mods done to it, just the bare min-
imum. In fact I am rather dissapointed with it because it seem to be quite
different from the race version. Is it all the carbon fibre that makes it so
expensive?

[Bavarias_Finest]

M3 over M5 are you kidding me thats not even an argument......Go to a BMW forum and tell them you think the M3 is the benchmark over the M5 theyll laugh at you.

M3 E46 ----- 333 bhp
M5 E39 ----- 393 bhp
Z8 ---------- 393 bhp

M5 handling isnt that good...??? Since when..... the four door is an automotive beast and in my opinion looks much better than the M3. The new and improved M5 will have a V10 with 500bhp, continuing its stature atop the BMW pedestol with the Z8. Granted the M3 is a nice car, but to compare it to the M5???

[rift321]

Yes, the new M3's compare with the E39 M5's. I doubt that anyone would say that an m3 is a benchmark over an m5 stock. that's not a debate. I think the debate has become BMW-irrelevant: would you like a 2-door coupe or a 4-door sedan? They are both fast cars. The E39, i'm sure, would be comparable to the m3, but the new m5, if what you say is true, would move it completely out of the class. And thanks for the specs on the Z8....? :|


continuing its stature atop the BMW pedestol with the Z8. Granted the M3 is a nice car, but to compare it to the M5???


Yes, and the 325i is on the bottom. Now that we have the BMW hierarchy out of the way, I would like to say that I understand everyone's position that with everything considered (tastefulness, practicality, power, handling, and top speed) the M5 is objectively superior. However, as a 19-year-old, I would like to have an M3 more than an M5 simply because it suits me more.

In an M3, I could pick up immature, snotty 18-year-old girls, while in the M5, I'd have better luck with 29-year-old women who have money. And I could still probably mess my pants driving the M3 on a track. :D

How about this.... getting road head from a blond southern college student on spring break in an M3 while driving fast on a freeway in florida, and then, that night, fucking a more mature 30ish woman in the back seat of your other car, an M5.

[bmwfreak]

Both cars are icons. Legends. ANd they're not even 10 years old. I want both.

But gievn a strict brief to pick only one? The M5. its styling has aged alot more gracefully than the 'younger' 3 -series M, has more space, is more comortable, and is a one of a kind.

Granted the M3, and to a greater extent, the M3 CSL, are driving excellence embodied. 343Bhp/360Bhp from 3.2 litres of straight six tradition. Nurburgring lap times, 0-60 times, etc. braking, visual appeal.

The M5, is a different beast. But remember, it is still a beast, nonetheless. V8 Roar, a top end that can go to 180Mph unrestricted, and FOUR doors. With a practical boot. (actually, the M3 has a practical boot too, to behonest).

But the M5 is just so much more...suave, as opposed to the M3 being a punk with a spray can. I love both cars, and for the tradition they both represent. But An M5 would be my choice.

[twboy1999]

M3 over M5 are you kidding me thats not even an argument......Go to a BMW forum and tell them you think the M3 is the benchmark over the M5 theyll laugh at you.

M3 E46 ----- 333 bhp
M5 E39 ----- 393 bhp
Z8 ---------- 393 bhp

M5 handling isnt that good...??? Since when..... the four door is an automotive beast and in my opinion looks much better than the M3. The new and improved M5 will have a V10 with 500bhp, continuing its stature atop the BMW pedestol with the Z8. Granted the M3 is a nice car, but to compare it to the M5???

m3 is the bench mark for the luxury coupe, and m5 was and probably still the bench mark for 4 door sedan


i personally like the look of m3 over m5,, just more aggresive
even thogh it is not as fast as m5 on the highway,, but fast enough for me^^

[Tsjilp]

You can compare the M3 with a ferrari 360 modena and the M5 with a ferrari 575 ...

[davmac]

I like the m3 better just b/c it's a coupe. Both great cars.

[twboy1999]

You can compare the M3 with a ferrari 360 modena and the M5 with a ferrari 575 ...


????????????????????????????????????? :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

first 360 and e46m3 are not in the same leauge in terms of performance, categories, and price

same as 575

e46m3 is a luxury coupe, and 360 is a exotic sports car....

and m5=4 door
575=2 door


btw,,, the Ferraris 360 will rape a m3
and 575 will rape a m5

but m5 can hang with 360 on high way

[mcostalos]

Does anyone know where i can get that lap time chart they featured in Top Gear's last season. In the videos i have, you can see parts of it like, the M3, 350Z, and RX8 all lapped at 1 min 31.8 sec. I want to see how the M5 and Z4 compared.

Thanks,
Michael

[Tsjilp]

my point was: to see the difference between a M3 and M5 you can compare them with the 360 and 575 ....how the 360 and 575 are different ... different purposes ...

i said:
the difference between m3 and m5 is the same as 360 and 575

I didn't say that M3 = 360 and M5 = 575 certainly not !

[twboy1999]

oops
my bad
didnt read carefully

need reading glasses

LOL

[SPEEDKILLAR]

M3 for sure, because it has the right size
i love the short but wide hood ,damn looks good