ZR1 vs. GT2 Drag - Autocar

[tforth]

Revenge for the Z06?



Porsche 911 GT2 v Corvette ZR1 - drag race by autocar.co.uk - YouTube

[enzoferrari]

BULLSHIT,I hate this stupid videos from Autocar,stupid driver or Porsche fanatics?
ZR1 Drag Race King - Spanks GTR, 599, and GT2 - YouTube

[RC45]

He bogged the launch of the ZR1.... and they always buggered up the Z06 launches hehe.

The ZR1's tyres love to be on the edge of grip... something Autocar never seems to get right.

I love that MotorTrend video - the puny GT-R is displayed in all ist over-weight under=powered glory - even the GT-2 shows it up.

[tforth]

BULLSHIT,I hate this stupid videos from Autocar,stupid driver or Porsche fanatics?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZlGMX8G3B4

Thing is, Autocar is neither a German nor American publication. Have you ever noticed how 'domestic' cars usually always do better than when compared by mags from other countries? For example:

Jags, Astons, Lotus, etc. excel in autocar, car, evo, etc. comparos
Corvetes, Vipers, Ford GTs and Cadilacs do well in American comparos
the German 'auto motor und sport' is known by some as 'auto mercedes sport'
and then there's Best Motoring's clear bias for Rice Rockets
I would agree that the earlier Z06/GT2 comparo didn't show the vette in its best light, but at least there's is no obvious reason for them to be bias here. It's not like they have rated the GT2 highly in prior reviews either, if you've bothered to read their mag.

[enzoferrari]

I still think this video is a big BS,ZR1 is faster than the GT2,just as the Z06 is faster than a turbo.

[zeus_2011]

I think evo rated the Z06 highly, even pitching it against cars not of the same class (see Issue 89 where they pitch it against the Exige Cup, Noble M400 and 996 GT3RS cars with a track bias for sure), so not sure whether you can say that that particular publication is negatively biased against US cars.

Anyway, regardless of these comparisons the ZR1 looks like an outright hypercar, once again reminding the world thats the US can build a proper sports car rather than just sleek looking dragsters....its just a shame the US auto industry may not be able to build upon these foundations.

[nthfinity]

Last time I checked, Porsche, BMW, VW, Mercedes are all in real trouble too...

That said, I think that the euro publications were tremendously affected by the Ford GT; and have come around quite a bit to our serious sports cars since then. I'm not sure if they purposely have crappy starts, or are totally unused to launching cars with 500-600 ft lbs of torque and rwd w/out launch control.

When they eventually test the 2010 ZR1, it should do better, as it has built in LC...

That said, upon watching both videos...

Autocar are SEVERELY behind the car's capabilities. It's either driver error, or there is something wrong with the car. A ZR1 can do the 1/4 stock in the very low 11's... 11.3-4 is what is generally run. This is at 130-132 mph; which is way off of what Autocar have tested here.

Bias? Maybe... no, its likely; or it's that there is something wrong with that ZR1's engine. The gearbox is very smooth in the ZR1. The fact that they were 6-7 tenths off of what the car can do in a quarter mile is simply HUGE. Even with a poor launch, they could've managed 11.7 @ 130 mph.

Following to the 1 mile mark, a ZR1 is capable of hitting around 190 mph; not the pathetically low 176 mph.
I see no excuse for this video that Autocar put on.

[tforth]

Last time I checked, Porsche, BMW, VW, Mercedes are all in real trouble too...


This is from the associated press:

"FRANKFURT -- Luxury car maker Audi AG said Wednesday its June sales edged higher from last year, lifted in part by strong demand in China and Germany, along with narrower declines in the United States and Europe.
The Ingolstadt-based company, whose brands include the TT, Q7 and A5, sold 91,200 cars in June, up 1.3 percent from the 90,025 it sold in June 2008."

Here's the link: http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2009/07/08/ap6629982.html

Mercedes and BMW are also doing better than they had expected at this point in the year, and furthermore, they're no where near bankruptcy.

Lastly, I would suggest, as I believe someone has already mentioned; the GT2 has launch control, a rear weight bias, track tires and the test surface was stated as being slippery. So, these factors were all in the GT2's favour.

However, if you watched the video you could see that on striaght accel, there wasn't much in it (i.e. the vette was slightly faster, not a lot faster according to the cars that they tested).

[nthfinity]

However, if you watched the video you could see that on striaght accel, there wasn't much in it (i.e. the vette was slightly faster, not a lot faster according to the cars that they tested).

Which is the big problem with the video. The Vette's recorded numbers are nowhere near that of the others in all the other publications, or private owners hands. Not even close; or in the bell curve.

[pagani]

He bogged the launch of the ZR1.... and they always buggered up the Z06 launches hehe.

The ZR1's tyres love to be on the edge of grip... something Autocar never seems to get right.

I love that MotorTrend video - the puny GT-R is displayed in all ist over-weight under=powered glory - even the GT-2 shows it up.
The gtr has only 480 hp stock
I love see the same test on a roadcourse whit hot laps
Love to see what the results would be

[leblanc2.0]

That said, I think that the euro publications were tremendously affected by the Ford GT; and have come around quite a bit to our serious sports cars since then. I'm not sure if they purposely have crappy starts, or are totally unused to launching cars with 500-600 ft lbs of torque and rwd w/out launch control.


:eek:
No,its only a dark conspiracy from the Europeans to destroy the best of the American cars.

Now sincerely did you saw the same video? I have no doubts the ZR1 is way faster than the Porsche.

You dint like what Henry Catchpole said about the ZR1 in his latest articule?

For me between a GT2 or a ZR1 i would take the Porsche.Why? Because is animal not domesticated,is a force of nature(sounds to poetical lol) is 40 years of improving the bread...

[nthfinity]

:eek:
No,its only a dark conspiracy from the Europeans to destroy the best of the American cars.

Now sincerely did you saw the same video? I have no doubts the ZR1 is way faster than the Porsche.

You dint like what Henry Catchpole said about the ZR1 in his latest articule?

For me between a GT2 or a ZR1 i would take the Porsche.Why? Because is animal not domesticated,is a force of nature(sounds to poetical lol) is 40 years of improving the bread...

Huh? My primary complaint is that they didn't drive the ZR1 with their foot to the floor; trapping a whole 20 mph slower at 1 mile does not equate to what the car can do. I'd understand 5 mph... heck, maybe a bit more if it was really hot and humid. But 20?

[Guibo]

^ A stock ZR1 has trapped 20 mph faster than this in the standing mile?

This test was done on a concrete airstrip, not a decently maintained dragstrip with sticky traction compound laid down. They also don't use rollout like US publications. While the ZR1 performed worse, the GT2 was likewise affected by the surface. That being said, this is the first test to show the ZR1 pulling steadily away from a GT2. In the Motor Trend test, if you look at the data which was re-published in Auto Bild, the GT2 was faster at the higher speeds.

[nthfinity]

^ A stock ZR1 has trapped 20 mph faster than this in the standing mile?

This test was done on a concrete airstrip, not a decently maintained dragstrip with sticky traction compound laid down. They also don't use rollout like US publications. While the ZR1 performed worse, the GT2 was likewise affected by the surface. That being said, this is the first test to show the ZR1 pulling steadily away from a GT2. In the Motor Trend test, if you look at the data which was re-published in Auto Bild, the GT2 was faster at the higher speeds.

Standing mile surfaces ARE NOT drag strip smooth or ideal for launches; but they are air strips not dissimilar to this. Also, standing mile runs aren't generally run with a hard launch, but a easier to control launch; as the net gain is a tiny fraction of a mph with a lot more chance of stress related failure (in the big hp mile cars).

[enzoferrari]

Autocar is crap...........................................per iod

[Guibo]

Standing mile surfaces ARE NOT drag strip smooth or ideal for launches; but they are air strips not dissimilar to this. Also, standing mile runs aren't generally run with a hard launch, but a easier to control launch; as the net gain is a tiny fraction of a mph with a lot more chance of stress related failure (in the big hp mile cars).
NEVER SAID THEY WERE. I'm commenting on the result of this test vs those of US mag tests of the ZR1 ("low 11's").

My standing mile question is a completely different subject. Could you clarify this:
"My primary complaint is that they didn't drive the ZR1 with their foot to the floor; trapping a whole 20 mph slower at 1 mile does not equate to what the car can do."
Are you saying that a stock ZR1 has trapped 20 mph faster in the standing mile?

[RC45]

NEVER SAID THEY WERE. I'm commenting on the result of this test vs those of US mag tests of the ZR1 ("low 11's").

My standing mile question is a completely different subject. Could you clarify this:
"My primary complaint is that they didn't drive the ZR1 with their foot to the floor; trapping a whole 20 mph slower at 1 mile does not equate to what the car can do."
Are you saying that a stock ZR1 has trapped 20 mph faster in the standing mile?

I see you gave up antagonizing my every post and generally coming across like a total dickweed and are after nthfinity now..

What a troll.. can be ban this guy saccount already?

And for the first time in 6 years and reading literally 100,000's of posts (many many being absolutely utter tripe) I have used the "Ignore" button...


This message is hidden because Guibo is on your ignore list.


Ahhhh - bliss ;)

[Guibo]

nthfinity, I'm not "after" you or anybody. I hope that RC's paranoia does not rub off on you. Let's keep this conversation civil. I don't see anything in this thread that is a ban-worthy offense.

[tforth]

Autocar is crap...........................................per iod

So which do you prefer? Motortrend:-P or Hot Rod :laugh:?

[nthfinity]

NEVER SAID THEY WERE. I'm commenting on the result of this test vs those of US mag tests of the ZR1 ("low 11's").
My contention regards trap speed more than time specifically... still, they are lagging behind even considering the bad launch



Are you saying that a stock ZR1 has trapped 20 mph faster in the standing mile?
A +60 hp ZR1 ran the standing mile at 186 mph. 640 hp FGT's run about 190. Obviously, the GT's have lower driveline losses. So 20 mph is wrong That said, their results are definitely very far off the bell curve.

[pitfield]

[QUOTE=enzoferrari;868296]BULLSHIT,I hate this stupid videos from Autocar,stupid driver or Porsche fanatics?
ZR1 Drag Race King - Spanks GTR, 599, and GT2 - YouTube[/QUOTE

Oh yeah, Autocar, what a bunch of dickheads. Grow up.

Just because America has built it's first decent car doesn't mean it has to be better than everything else in every area, it's an amazing piece of kit definitely, bit brash but definitely fantastic.

[zeus_2011]

God forbid people in the US get their hands on EVO magazine (issue 133), we'll see nukes flying over all our cities over here!!!!:-P

page 93:
"....the ZR1 is the car that everyone knew within the first 50yds was going to be in last place. Even pulling out of a lay-by, each of the far flung corners of the Vette seems to have its own agenda."

Oh dear :ohmy:

[pitfield]

Oh shit, Nuclear War Music Video - YouTube

[enzoferrari]

So which do you prefer? Motortrend or Hot Rod ?
I prefer the one with real results based on facts and this is the second time I see a very stupid video from AutoShit, facts are facts, maybe your sister would go like WOW the porsche is faster than the Corvette and it would be acceptable but I believe most of us know the facts.

[enzoferrari]

2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 Test - YouTube

[Guibo]

My contention regards trap speed more than time specifically... still, they are lagging behind even considering the bad launch

Couldn't a bad surface also affect the trap speed? The GT2 has trapped 3-4 mph faster than that in previous tests. Or, are we saying something is wrong with that GT2 as well? The bad surface continues on down everwhere on that track, and since a ZR1 can break loose even in 3rd gear on an asphault surface...

Here's what Autocar wrote regarding this test:
"Firstly, the number of test tracks in the UK that a) have a suitably long straight and b) allow side by side running is limited. And on this occasion Bruntingthorpe worked best with our schedule. Trouble is Brunters, great though it is, doesn't have the world's best surface for standing starts. If we'd gone to Santa Pod for instance, I reckon there's a good chance both cars (and almost certainly the Vette) would have gone quicker. But we couldn't."

A +60 hp ZR1 ran the standing mile at 186 mph. 640 hp FGT's run about 190. Obviously, the GT's have lower driveline losses. So 20 mph is wrong That said, their results are definitely very far off the bell curve.
Wait, let's just stick to Corvettes. Now you are saying a modified Corvette with +60 hp (that's 700 hp) does the standing mile at 186 mph. That's 9 mph faster than this ZR1. What does that say about how a stock ZR1 would do? What are some other stock ZR1 standing mile speeds? Show me some sources, and links, so that I can have a better understanding of this bell curve.

[tforth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQaas5NbIlw

So Motortrend it is for you... Now, would you say the clip that you've posted is a review or an advertisement? At least Autocar just ran one car against the other and said this is what happened with these cars, drivers and track. There wasn't all the other emotional BS.

BTW, I started buying car mags in 1984. I believe my first was a Road and Track, followed by Car and Driver. I even had a subscription to Motor Trend for one year. Never again. Even back then, they were by far the worst rag out there (even among the American mags:-P).

I prefer 'evo', 'Autocar', 'sport auto' - the German one (they actually have the best test set-up of any rag, in that among many other tests they run at the Ring & Hockenheim!), and occasionally 'car'. Rarely do pick up an American mag. They just aren't written by entusiasts.

[enzoferrari]

^^^LOL, Motortrend is not bad i see nothing wrong, where is the BS ??It's just a ZR1 video maybe I should post the same video but with the GT2,599,GTR, where they are being review just like the ZR1 with the same emotion,I do have a big collection of magazines too, whatever you choose don't read BS please,ZR1 is faster than GT2 and I think numbers dont lie, so you think Motortrend is a bad Magazine? why? just because you dont like what you read. lol

[nthfinity]

Motor trend did choose the Mustang II as COTY (it sold quite well, and was the "right car at the right time" but history didn't vindicate it )

[tforth]

Motor trend did choose the Mustang II as COTY (it sold quite well, and was the "right car at the right time" but history didn't vindicate it )

Thanks - I wasn't aware of that one :-)