The plane us dutch schould buy instead of the jsf crap plane

[pagani]

Saab gripen is the best choice for us dutch the us the joint struik flyer is not
First flight of the Gripen Demo - YouTube


:-):thumbup:

[HeilSvenska]

How the hell do you figure that the Gripen is okay when the F-22 and F-35 are crap?
Gripen is a lot cheaper, but older and less capable. That's the only reason you'd get them.

[pagani]

How the hell do you figure that the Gripen is okay when the F-22 and F-35 are crap?
Gripen is a lot cheaper, but older and less capable. That's the only reason you'd get them.
But the f22 and f35 joint struik fighter are still not fully ready the gripen is ready for action when we get the jsf eventully it will be outdated.
And the griper is 6 miljard euro cheaper than the joint suck fighter and at least as capable as the f22 f35.
The griper is like the ariel atom light fast quick on good handling.
And the f22 f35 are like a the old american muscle cars of years gone by big engine and to much weight and my last reasons are the grip and do stol take off's and landings and can take off from rough roads and it's much better looking than both the f22 and f35.

[HeilSvenska]

But the f22 and f35 joint struik fighter are still not fully ready the gripen is ready for action when we get the jsf eventully it will be outdated.
And the griper is 6 miljard euro cheaper than the joint suck fighter and at least as capable as the f22 f35.
The griper is like the ariel atom light fast quick on good handling.
And the f22 f35 are like a the old american muscle cars of years gone by big engine and to much weight and my last reasons are the grip and do stol take off's and landings and can take off from rough roads and it's much better looking than both the f22 and f35.

F-22 is already in service.

F-35 is brand spanking new, when it comes into service (which is slated for 2011), the Gripen will be outdated by at least 15 years. Not to mention the development of the Gripen began 14 years before the F-35, starting with a much older mindset and technology.

The Gripen is in no way capable as the F-22 or even the F-35. It possesses neither the F-22 and the F-35's stealth capabilities, nor the F-35's flexibility.

The car analogy doesn't work for jet fighters.
Dog fights have no place in modern air-to-air combat. An F-22 will shoot down a Gripen before it can be fully registered on the screen.
And I should have you know that F-35 does not weigh more than the Gripen. In fact, in certain configurations, it's lighter than a normal Gripen.
And the Gripen's STOL is inferior to the F-35's STOVL technology, which makes vertical landing possible.

Gripen is a pretty plane, there's no doubt about that, but it's not designed as an air superiority fighter. That's why it's so much cheaper. If anything, the Eurofighter is more of a challenge, and is much prettier.

[79TA]

I'd say the Gripen never really surpassed a certain plane from 1979. F15 FTW.

[PaulGT2164]

"I'd say the Gripen never really surpassed a certain plane from 1979"

agreed.
F22/F15/F18 FTW

[10000rpmlover]

the grippen is a generation 3 fighter, sure it was developed and used as a generation 4, but in no way did it ever surpass the F-15, or the Mig 29, which would be the ones it would go against, sure it is great and it deserves some mention but please, it would not even hold a candle to an F/A 18 super hornet in maneuverability, weapon systems, and serviceability, by that same token a super hornet wouldn't last 2 seconds in a fight against a F-35 JSF, and then a f-22... let's not even go there, the radar in the F-22 can engage and lock onto any hostile miles before the enemy even knows the F-22 is there... and then if your grippen can ever get close enough, I have a hard time believing it can hang in a dogfight with an F-22, notice that no one, I mean no one claims to have a fighter that can do that yet, not sukhoi, not Mikoyan, not northrop, not grumman, not boeing

[enzoferrari]

You guys dont like the F22 raptor??Its the ultimate plane IMO.F-22 On Modern Marvels - YouTube

[10000rpmlover]

I recorded that modern marvels episode to my DVR, I loved it

[MidEngine4Life]

Nice lookin plane, but can it do this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOmpC7-VDvo

[Mattk]

The F-22 isn't available for export, so you can't even buy it no matter how much you want it. In any case, the F-35 JSF seems to be a more flexible choice for most countries for cost-related reasons.

[pagani]

I'd say the Gripen never really surpassed a certain plane from 1979. F15 FTW.
Wrong

[HeilSvenska]

Wrong
It's more right than you realize. Why do you think a lot more countries are still buying F-15s over Gripens?

[pagani]

It's more right than you realize. Why do you think a lot more countries are still buying F-15s over Gripens?
The f15 is a old a plane by now
And i still think that for the netherlands the gripen a much better plane is than the f35 joint struik flyer
And a proper jet fighter is also a very good dog fighter in my book.
The second choice is the eurofighter.

:-):thumbup:

[HeilSvenska]

The f15 is a old a plane by now
And i still think that for the netherlands the gripen a much better plane is than the f35 joint struik flyer
And a proper jet fighter is also a very good dog fighter in my book.
The second choice is the eurofighter.

:-):thumbup:

So, for personal preference you think Netherlands should get inferior planes? Maybe. It is your money being spent, and Netherlands doesn't have to worry about foreign invasion any time soon.

F-15 is indeed old. But it has been going through constant refits and redesigns, much like the Gripen since it was introduced. But it was designed to be a superiority fighter of time, unlike the Gripen. The question is which one is more effective? An older, but constantly upgraded superiority fighter or a newer mid-range fighter?
*I always thought the F-16 was more of the Gripen rival due to size, price, and configuration.

[pagani]

So, for personal preference you think Netherlands should get inferior planes? Maybe. It is your money being spent, and Netherlands doesn't have to worry about foreign invasion any time soon.

F-15 is indeed old. But it has been going through constant refits and redesigns, much like the Gripen since it was introduced. But it was designed to be a superiority fighter of time, unlike the Gripen. The question is which one is more effective? An older, but constantly upgraded superiority fighter or a newer mid-range fighter?
*I always thought the F-16 was more of the Gripen rival due to size, price, and configuration.
The Netherlands don't need a superiority fighter we are only very small country.
So lighter plane would be better.

[nthfinity]

So lighter plane would be better.

As noted earlier, the JSF F-35 can be less mass than the Grippen.

If an aircraft never see's it's fighter opponent for a dog fight, yet is shot down, who is the victor?

[Mattk]

The Netherlands don't need a superiority fighter we are only very small country.
So lighter plane would be better.
I think a better answer would be that the Netherlands is a neutral country which doesn't need a fifth-generation fighter. The Gripen is a later fourth-generation fighter and would certainly do the job, but on a one-on-one comparison with the F-22 or F-35, it's just not as good simply because it doesn't have as much high technology.

[PaulGT2164]

"The Netherlands don't need a superiority fighter we are only very small country.
So lighter plane would be better."

Because, if someone wants to goto war with your "little country" as you put it, they are only going to send their "lighter" planes right?

"Wrong"

what factual base do you use to draw this conclusion?

the Gripen is a cool plane, dont get me wrong, however it is not as good, capable, proven, or developed as the F15, its is undoubtedly inferior to the F18 and the F22.

"If an aircraft never see's it's fighter opponent for a dog fight, yet is shot down, who is the victor?"

Exactly, modern air combat is not the same as in the "dogfighter" years of pre-radar and radar controlled weapons systems. Early detection and guided weaponary have nearly rendered "air to air dogfighting" obsolete. Granted, on rare occasion, it does happen, but not often enough.

[RC45]

Ah, the Smart-for-2 of the aviation world.

Cute looking plane...

[pagani]

Ah, the Smart-for-2 of the aviation world.

Cute looking plane...
It's the evil twin brother.