[SPOILER] 2008 Italian GP

[blue8]

Round 14: Santander Italian Grand Prix
Monza, Italy

Practice 1:
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Sutil Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:32.842 18
2. Barrichello Honda (B) 1:33.428 + 0.586 14
3. Fisichella Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:33.695 + 0.853 19
4. Glock Toyota (B) 1:36.800 + 3.958 13
5. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:36.900 + 4.058 9
6. Alonso Renault (B) 1:36.965 + 4.123 10
7. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:37.142 + 4.300 20
8. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:37.214 + 4.372 13
9. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:37.392 + 4.550 5
10. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:37.754 + 4.912 13
11. Piquet Renault (B) 1:38.057 + 5.215 11
12. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:38.303 + 5.461 7
13. Button Honda (B) 1:39.062 + 6.220 12
14. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:40.233 + 7.391 5
15. Heidfeld BMW Sauber (B) 1
16. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 2
17. Kubica BMW Sauber (B) 1
18. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1
19. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1
20. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1

Don't be fooled by the times. The track was damp at the beginning of the session but heavy rain followed. Glock was the quickest on the wet track.

Practice 2:
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:23.861 31
2. Kubica BMW Sauber (B) 1:23.931 + 0.070 26
3. Heidfeld BMW Sauber (B) 1:23.947 + 0.086 29
4. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:23.983 + 0.122 25
5. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:24.110 + 0.249 33
6. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:24.247 + 0.386 34
7. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:24.365 + 0.504 29
8. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:24.521 + 0.660 35
9. Sutil Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:24.669 + 0.808 22
10. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:24.773 + 0.912 35
11. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:25.100 + 1.239 25
12. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:25.192 + 1.331 39
13. Fisichella Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:25.204 + 1.343 24
14. Barrichello Honda (B) 1:25.296 + 1.435 25
15. Button Honda (B) 1:25.309 + 1.448 34
16. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:25.330 + 1.469 28
17. Glock Toyota (B) 1:25.397 + 1.536 28
18. Alonso Renault (B) 1:25.481 + 1.620 22
19. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:25.753 + 1.892 29
20. Piquet Renault (B) 1:26.195 + 2.334 23

The second session also started with a damp track but conditions steadily improved.

[SHIZL]

does anybody know what the weather will be like there this weekend?.looks like kimi will be with ferrari until 2010 contract extension

[Jona]

Rain is expected.

[styla21]

I was impressed with the BMW lap times! Held P1 and P2 up until 2 minutes remaining of prac..:-)
You can't ever really read into practice lap times though. Any updates on the qualifying / race weather conditions??

[blue8]

Qualifying:
Pos Driver Team Q1 Q2 Q3
1. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:35.464 1:35.837 1:37.555
2. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:35.214 1:35.843 1:37.631
3. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:36.001 1:36.306 1:38.117
4. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:35.543 1:36.175 1:38.445
5. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:35.485 1:35.898 1:38.767
6. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:35.536 1:36.676 1:38.894
7. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:35.906 1:36.008 1:39.152
8. Alonso Renault (B) 1:36.297 1:36.518 1:39.751
9. Glock Toyota (B) 1:35.737 1:36.525 1:39.787
10. Heidfeld BMW Sauber (B) 1:35.709 1:36.626 1:39.906
11. Kubica BMW Sauber (B) 1:35.553 1:36.697
12. Fisichella Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:36.280 1:36.698
13. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:36.485 1:37.284
14. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:35.965 1:37.522
15. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:35.394 1:39.265
16. Barrichello Honda (B) 1:36.510
17. Piquet Renault (B) 1:36.630
18. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:36.653
19. Button Honda (B) 1:37.006
20. Sutil Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:37.417

You're not seeing wrong. Kubica is P11, Raikkonen P14 and Hamilton P15. Those 3 weren't able to set a fast enough time in Q2 as conditions were worsening throughout the session. Vettel is also the youngest in F1 history to secure pole position. What a race we should have tomorrow!

[SHIZL]

wat a moment kimi had at around 9 mins wow prettty close at ascari. wrong tires for a few people

[Mattk]

Weird results! Well done Vettel. He's really finding his feet in the latter stages of this season.

[Strop]

Well done to massa too.....his 10th time in Q2 was great. But Vettel was amazing!!

[Spiffu]

I predict some flying carbon fiber in the first lap.

[Jona]

Today Heikki showed what he is made of. Kovalainen is a brilliant driver, no doubt about it. Hamilton = Rainmeister? Hahahahhah :D

http://www.riemurasia.net/jylppy/media.php?id=45925&c=5

British media is currently quiet. They've been telling that Hamilton is the best thing since sliced bread.. well there you go. They are so biased that italian press looks like a UN convention.

It will be a great race tomorrow. I'm expecting Heikki to take the lead, and there will be a big crash in the first corner. RAI and HAM will be out. Kovalainen will win this, he'll probably make just one pit stop. Vettel is good, but his car doesn't have what it takes to challenge McLaren. Vettel will be a superstar when he'll have the right tools, he is an excellent driver.

Go Finland!

[yellky]

here's what i've heard:


top 10 (or most of 'em) have rain setup (suspension, aero, etc..)
there's a chance for dry race tomorrow



so..:


top 10 can't touch their cars and change anything 'till start, right?
KUB, RAI and HAM can do whatever they want (fuel, setup, etc..), right?

it's gonna be interesting tomorrow :thumbup::thumbup:

[Mattk]

^Yeah, good point, although I'm not sure the setup will necessarily disadvantage them to the extent that Kubica, Raikonnen and Hamilton will have an easy run up the field.

[nthfinity]

here's what i've heard:


top 10 (or most of 'em) have rain setup (suspension, aero, etc..)
there's a chance for dry race tomorrow



so..:


top 10 can't touch their cars and change anything 'till start, right?
KUB, RAI and HAM can do whatever they want (fuel, setup, etc..), right?

it's gonna be interesting tomorrow :thumbup::thumbup:

Can't they make changes between q2 and q3?

[Mattk]

^Yes, the changes made to prepare the car for a race. The Q3 qualifiers (i.e. the top ten) plan for the race immediately after Q2, e.g. fuel strategy. The cars are then locked up for the night immediately after qualifying. Other cars are still free to fiddle about.

[pitfield]

Today Heikki showed what he is made of. Kovalainen is a brilliant driver, no doubt about it. Hamilton = Rainmeister? Hahahahhah :D

http://www.riemurasia.net/jylppy/media.php?id=45925&c=5

British media is currently quiet. They've been telling that Hamilton is the best thing since sliced bread.. well there you go. They are so biased that italian press looks like a UN convention.

It will be a great race tomorrow. I'm expecting Heikki to take the lead, and there will be a big crash in the first corner. RAI and HAM will be out. Kovalainen will win this, he'll probably make just one pit stop. Vettel is good, but his car doesn't have what it takes to challenge McLaren. Vettel will be a superstar when he'll have the right tools, he is an excellent driver.

Go Finland!

British Media is not currently quiet, the unusual qualifying results have been all over the news and in today's newspapers.

[Kissyface]

Hamilton = Rainmeister? Hahahahhah :biggrin:



At lap 33, are you still laughing? ;-)
At lap 40, I am laughing for a very different reason...
Okay, enough gloating.

Race is over. A very interesting race and undisputable proof of Sebastian Vettel's talent and I salute him for a maturity beyond his years and an incredible race weekend.

[SHIZL]

what a great result for vettel u got to like him and a great drive from kubica. im sure hamilton had some ferrrari fans scared until it started drying up and he had to pit again the championship is so crazy right now. ferrari has got to start becoming scared of the constuctors championship dont know how it looks yet but its getting closer every race. ferrari 134, mclaren 129 constructors

[silentm]

man what a race... i was so nervous till the end because i was afraid Vettel might not hold it together but man was i wrong!

i was sooooo happy when he crossed the finish line, such an incredible and historical moment. man this was just epic!

[bettlejuice]

Today Heikki showed what he is made of. Kovalainen is a brilliant driver, no doubt about it. Hamilton = Rainmeister? Hahahahhah :D

http://www.riemurasia.net/jylppy/media.php?id=45925&c=5

British media is currently quiet. They've been telling that Hamilton is the best thing since sliced bread.. well there you go. They are so biased that italian press looks like a UN convention.

It will be a great race tomorrow. I'm expecting Heikki to take the lead, and there will be a big crash in the first corner. RAI and HAM will be out. Kovalainen will win this, he'll probably make just one pit stop. Vettel is good, but his car doesn't have what it takes to challenge McLaren. Vettel will be a superstar when he'll have the right tools, he is an excellent driver.

Go Finland!

making results outta others' misery!?! i see some issues there
.............................................
kudos to Vettel, Hamilton and Kubica ... great race

[frnk]

Hamilton had a good drive but he made alot moves which were either mistakes (that no one else made) or what I would rat as overly aggressive moves, especially in the conditions. Pushing Glock off at the curva grande and then bumping wheels with Webber on the entry to rettifilo were both hugely uncomprimising moves which make the Schumacher comparisons seem more and more apt.

A bit of a disappointing race after a great race at Spa and the most exciting qualifying session of the season but a great result for Vettel who is definitely cementing himself as a huge prospect for the future.

[blue8]

Awesome race! Congrats to Vettel for driving a great race!
Pos Driver Team Time
1. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1h26:47.000
2. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes (B) + 12.512
3. Kubica BMW Sauber (B) + 20.471
4. Alonso Renault (B) + 23.903
5. Heidfeld BMW Sauber (B) + 27.748
6. Massa Ferrari (B) + 28.816
7. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) + 29.012
8. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) + 32.048
9. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) + 39.468
10. Piquet Renault (B) + 54.445
11. Glock Toyota (B) + 58.888
12. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) + 1:02.015
13. Trulli Toyota (B) + 1:05.954
14. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) + 1:08.635
15. Button Honda (B) + 1:13.370
16. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) + 1 lap
17. Barrichello Honda (B) + 1 lap
18. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) + 1 lap
19. Sutil Force India-Ferrari (B) + 2 laps

[yellky]

and it was interesting indeed!
great race, i thought it would be impossible for KUB to finish on the podium :-D:-D

i didnt like HAM's driving style - esp. the incident with WEB :thumbdown:


btw, i've just found the proof RAI can smile:
http://www.formula1.com/photos/225x/sutton/2008/d08ita1356.jpg
(that was BEFORE the race)

[styla21]

Appears the F1 press is describing Monza as a "One of the Great Races" and that it showed "why f1 is the greatest sport in the world".
....It was a good race and everything, but I found myself sort of frustrated the whole time. :S

Perhaps it was Hamiltons 3 unnecessarily overly-aggressive moves, or that the highest speed-track in the F1 calendar was being driven at a snails pace the entire time. I expected carnage, lots of rear-end powersliding, and slick overtaking moves. :twisted:

Instead, Nakajima delivered his trademark Kamikaze move into Coulthard, the ITV commentators were doing their usual Hamilton-Fanboy speeches - claming Kimi has had it, and showing off their new cool quote for the day "the Minardi DNA". If I got a $1 for everytime i heard that one last night... I'd have like 20 dollars. :-P

Why must the ITV guys talk-down Heiki's ability - he came 2nd as I recall it, and Hamilton 7th? He outqualified, and outraced his counterpart, but apparantly "isn't a good enough racer to challenge in a race yet". Please! He was blinded by a blizzard of spray, came 2nd. He drove brilliantly. Shut up.:!:

All in all, i'm stoked for Vettel, and for both Redbull teams. They deserved some success, and you could sort of feel it brewing throughout recent time.

My sympathy award goes to Bourdais, who after a challenging season must have been thrilled to be up the front of the grid, to then have mechanical failure / unexplained stall. :-)

Question: Do you guys think Kimi's season is indeed finished? I realise there are unsurmountable odds against him... But it's never over till its over. How exactly, when its claimed Kimi will "now support Massa" does he do that? Drive into Massa's competitors? Or something more refined like some feedback throughout practice / qualifying? - I thought team orders were no longer allowed? :S

Good race. Bring on Singapore.

[79TA]

For the first time in a long while I found an F1 race entertaining. It was so nice to see someone other than "the usual suspects" be able to be competitive. Great job to Vettel. That kid is definitely going places if he can win a race that young in a non-manufacturer car. I knew F1 as dominated by the factory teams but I didn't realize that a non-factory team hadn't won a race since '03.

It seems Torro Rosso runs well in the rain. Does anyone remember how well Speed was doing in his car in that one rainy race before his incident?

[frnk]

Kimi is behind Kubica in the driver's championship now, I think he's pretty much finished. His role will be to rear gun for Massa and design his strategies around holding up Hamilton on the tracks where they have an advantage. Team orders are illegal now but it doesn't stop teams from controlling their drivers to make sure that the finish is orchestrated in the best way for the championship, they just have to make sure they don't get caught and don't do anything as obvious as the Schumacher/Barrichello days.

[fordgt84]

gr8 race indeed, i'm really happy for vettel. alot of people were cutting chicane's in this race though, i guess hamilton's "incident" at belgium was contagious. speaking of which hamilton did well getting from 15th to 7th, but i must admit, as a hamilton supporter, that some of his moves were a bit dirty :blushing:...anyways i'm very much lookin forward to that night race in singapore, should be interesting

[blue8]

Question: Do you guys think Kimi's season is indeed finished? I realise there are unsurmountable odds against him... But it's never over till its over. How exactly, when its claimed Kimi will "now support Massa" does he do that? Drive into Massa's competitors? Or something more refined like some feedback throughout practice / qualifying? - I thought team orders were no longer allowed? :S

I think Ferrari wants Kimi to play the supporting role now. They won't openly say it as usual.
I've always said that our main interest is the team," explained Domenicali. "Of course, that's the most important thing and the drivers know it. "At this moment, at this stage, you can see that we haven't, in our situation, taken away points from one or the other, and for sure, considering from now up to the end of the season, in the way that it's possible to do, of course Kimi will do his best to be as aggressive as possible but also consider the fact that Felipe is much closer to the leader, Lewis."

But here's what Kimi's response:
Q. Are you going to help Felipe Massa? KR: I don't know. We will see what happens.


I'm not a Hamilton fan but I was actually impressed with his overtaking moves during the races. Sure some were potentially dangerous but it worked anyway. :mrgreen: At least he had the balls to be aggressive. I didn't see anyone else like him there.

[5vz-fe]

Hamilton is making friends.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080915141257.shtml

A week after the Spa-Francorchamps penalty controversy, championship leader Lewis Hamilton's on-track antics are back in the spotlight.

The McLaren driver got involved in some close encounters during Sunday's Italian Grand Prix, including with his old foe and former teammate, Fernando Alonso.

"There was some unnecessary movements he made," the Spaniard told reporters in his native tongue at Monza, "and he repeated them with Glock and Webber. It is his way of racing."

Toyota's Timo Glock was also not pleased when asked about Hamilton's driving.

"I do not know what he was thinking. I was right next to him but he left me no room. Sometimes he drives as though he is completely alone on the track," the German is quoted as saying by RTL.


"The next time I am with him (on track), I will behave with him in exactly the same way," Glock promised.

23-year-old Hamilton also made contact with Red Bull's Mark Webber during a wheel-to-wheel battle with the Australian at the first chicane.

"I made sure I covered my inside spot, but I didn't want to stay there on the wet patch or I wouldn't have made the corner," the Briton explained afterwards. "He just clipped my front wheel and went on."

[HeilSvenska]

Wow... A Minardi-level team with Minardi-origin actually won a race...

Good for Vettel. It shows that you need some guts to pull off a heroic victory, especially since you're in the bottom tier and you have little to lose. But man, 12 second lead at the end is very commendable.

Good for Kovaleinen as well.

What's happening to Kimi? Ferrari must not suit him well.

[nthfinity]

Styla, i generally agree with you.

The race win was well deserved to Vettel.. and everything beyond that was pretty much boring. Hamilton made some gutsy moves, and seemed to always have the slip-stream in a straight after some turn, or chicane... some luck; which really helped him. Once his slipstream luck ended, his speed ended. It was bound to work for a while... but cannot guarantee a race win, or podium.

Kimi "showed" whats up by setting so many fast laps, and the fast lap of the race with his "hard to drive" ferrari.

[Mattk]

An awesome result for Vettel. He has really shown that he can cut it with the big boys. With a top-level car, he'll be challenging for more wins in the future. Nice speedy driving by Kubica, Raikonnen and Hamilton. A pity Raikonnen couldn't get that point.

Massa is now just one point behind Hamilton. He is thirteen ahead of Kubica in third and twenty ahead of Raikonnen in fourth. It seems the title fight will be between Massa and Hamilton. I don't think anyone else will be able to win it from here.

[SafirXP]

Great drive from Vettel and Lewis. I especially enoyed the way Lewis tackled Glock, Alonso & Webber. More fun when drivers get more nasty with each other, than the usual dull, boring races.

Can't wait to see Vettel out perform Webber on every circuit next year, thats a given! :D

[Mattk]

After finishing first, Vettel is now actually a few points ahead of Webber! Out of all active drivers, Webber has had the second most points without a win, and the second most starts without a win. Only Heidfeld has a more unenviable record.

[bezmiegs]

thats just what F1 needs... aggressive drivers. Everybody is far too polite in F1. Thats why they are racing drivers, they have petrol in their weins. ;)

[Mattk]

^Perhaps you have forgotten that motorsports was never meant to be aggressive. It was an arena for aristocrats to test out their new cars. Formula One, to me, stands above the other races as being less aggressive and more gentlemanly and sedate. If you want aggression, watch other motorsports.

[styla21]

^Perhaps you have forgotten that motorsports was never meant to be aggressive. It was an arena for aristocrats to test out their new cars. Formula One, to me, stands above the other races as being less aggressive and more gentlemanly and sedate. If you want aggression, watch other motorsports.
Monster trucks ftw :mrgreen:

[bezmiegs]

^Perhaps you have forgotten that motorsports was never meant to be aggressive. It was an arena for aristocrats to test out their new cars. Formula One, to me, stands above the other races as being less aggressive and more gentlemanly and sedate. If you want aggression, watch other motorsports.

You may be right, but F1 is a long way from testing new cars. F1 is a show and a glamorous one at that, and to be a sucessfull show it needs to have agression or at least rivalship, othervise all that is left is a bunch of formulas going round a track with no one overtaking. Motorsport has always been about speed and who can get to the finish faster, and that cannot happen without agression of some kind, the only thing is that the agression should be left on the track.

[frnk]

I think aggression is definitely a big part of any high level motorsport, F1 included. Modern F1 if anything is less aggressive than its 70s counterpart due to safety and sponsorship concerns, stories of James Hunt hitting people who ran him off the road or Alan Jone's brutal and highly aggressive driving style in the ground-effect era are what defines F1 as the premier motorsport.

In the case of Hamilton, obviously I think he was toeing the line a little, especially with his wheelbang on Webber in the heaviest braking zone on the entire track. Obviously in the modern safety obsessed climate that kind of driving is not something that is often seen or endorsed by teams and sponsors.