Cowardly Competition ruins Corvette GT1 Program

[79TA]

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/09/corvettes-back-in-alms-in-2009-with-gt1-and-gt2-programs/

In the last two years, the ALMS GT1 Corvettes have rarely had anyone in their own class to compete with. Because of the lack of success and cowardice of Ferarri, Porsche, Viper, and Saleen teams in GT1, Corvette has decided to move down to GT2 after one more shot at the GT1 title at the 24 Hours of LeMans.

[Spiffu]

I don't know why they haven't done this earlier, I'd be embarrassed to be only racing my own team mate in a classed based series.

Hell, I'll look forward to them mixing up the Ferrari vs Porsche war always going on in GT2.

[79TA]

'05 wasn't that long ago. Back then they had decent competition. Then they lost the Viper teams. Then it seemed only the Acemco Saleen was around. Then the DBR9's had a go and enjoyed some success but despite much handicapping in their favor still couldn't take a manufacturer's title.

I should also note that they had plenty of competition at the real event, the 24 Hours of LeMans, each year. Aston nabbed the last two GT1 victories since they had their reliability issues sorted out. If I were running any GT team, I wouldn't be all that satisfied with the 2nd class GT win.

One would think the likes of Ferrari and Porsche could perhaps pose a challenge to the Corvette, especially given the way the owners talk about their production cars. Porsche enjoyed their dominance of GT2 so I can see the reason for their inaction but why Ferrari decided to shoot low is beyond me.

Here's a more thorough story from the ALMS site.

http://www.americanlemans.com/News/Article.aspx?ID=4783

[79TA]

I need to figure out a way to make my Trans Am legal to race in the ALMS GT1 class. Not only will I be guaranteed a podium, but eventually a win!

I think the new Camaro would make an awesome yet slightly humorous entry for the GT2 class. It'd send a nice message to the Porsche, Ferrari, and Panoz competition.

[HeilSvenska]

There's still plenty of competition in the FIA GT1 series. Unfortunately, differences in FIA/ACO restrictions mean that FIA GT1 winner Maserati MC12's not able to fight the Corvettes and Astons in both ALMS and at Le Mans.

[79TA]

It seems the midengined cars are always hindered and over handicapped. The Saleen S7's only really had a shot the first year, but then had all sorts of bugs to work out. The fact that the engine made the power it did while breathing through two holes the size of a quarter is pretty incredible. I'd love to have an unlimited S7R. Even more tragic, is that there were only 15 S7R's ever built!

There were some races where the Acemco S7 had a shot against the C6R's, but the 'vettes pretty much beat it in the turns.

[nthfinity]

its my understanding that the GT1 program is reduced to GT2 because dev. costs are less than 1/4th, while the "outright" speed is not that different... and, w/out competition, it really is pretty pointless anyway.

[79TA]

There's competition everywhere else in the world, just not in the ALMS. Anyway, there's talk of combining the GT classes into one big class anyway so in the long run it might not make a huge difference.

[Spiffu]

Audi is putting P2 cars in next year, and Acura is putting in P1's in as well.

Though none are removing any from respective classes.

[WMUCarGuy]

Audi is putting P2 cars in next year, and Acura is putting in P1's in as well.

Though none are removing any from respective classes.

State your sources on an Audi P2. I see almost NO chance of that happening. Audi is all about winning at Le Mans, the ALMS and LMS are afterthoughts. Winning LMP2 at Le Mans, well doesn't really mean anything, and with the way the regulations are headed (and the way they're currently supposed to be now, LMP1 is for manufacturers, and LMP2 is for privateers, so an Audi LMP2 doesn't really make much sense.

Audi WILL have an all new car next year, and there are rumors that Audi (at least in a full factory sense) may significantly dial back its ALMS/LMS involvment in 2009. I'd expect the car to be a coupe seeing as the aero advantages are quite large, and I'd expect it to be a diesel (althogh I've heard rumblings of going back to the FSI V8 from the R8).

[WMUCarGuy]

And I wouldn't call it "cowardly competition" at all. GT1 just doesn't work in this day and age. You can run a top flite LMP2 program for about the same as a GT1 program, and most teams don't have that kind of capital/would have a hard time convincing sponsors to shell out HUGE cash to be in the GT classes.

Expect to see just 1 GT class from 2010 in ACO competition.

[WMUCarGuy]

There's competition everywhere else in the world, just not in the ALMS. Anyway, there's talk of combining the GT classes into one big class anyway so in the long run it might not make a huge difference.

ALMS and LMS both have pathetic GT1 entry lists.

[79TA]

GT1 has gone downhill everywhere in the last 5 years. ALMS is the worst example with NO competition for the Corvettes in almost every race. LMS isn't on the same level when it comes to lacking competition. If I could get my own car somehow qualified in GT1, I could take a podium.

It's not like GT2 has always been so diverse either. Until Ferrari's arrival, it was just a Porsche vs. Panoz show as far as ALMS was concerned. The addition of Ferarri and upstart privateer teams (Drayson's Aston, Primetime's Viper, and the Richardson Ford GT etc) has made the class suddenly much more interesting.

It wasn't so long ago that Corvettes, Vipers, S7's, and 550's were all competing in the same race.

I'd like to see the pendulum swing back the other way so GT1 was competitive again, but I think it's more likely that there will just be one big GT class in the future. At least that will prevent more capable teams from settling down to become the big fish in the small GT2 pond.

And yes, I maintain that a manufacturer that is as highly regarded as Ferrari shooting low for second tier racing is cowardly. It's not as if they have no competition in GT2, but the likes of Flying Lizard and Farnbacher Loles aren't as imposing as the Pratt & Miller factory 'vettes. I suppose it's because this is one of those series where other cars aren't handicapped for not being red. As much as I enjoy watching Melo and Risi Competizione prevail over the Porsches, that team should be capable of running in GT1. For goodness sake, they had to downsize the F430's engine to 4 litres in order to qualify down to GT2 standards.

[Woohoo]

"Cowardly competition"? Are you serious?

Porsche has 16 overall wins at Le Mans. Ferrari is the most sucessful team in F1 history.

GM has a few class wins at Le Mans.

I don't know...

[graywolf624]

GM has a few class wins at Le Mans.
Bit more then a few there man.. Try 5. Not to mention 7 consecutive alms championships. I don't know about cowardly but from a worldwide perspective corvette has been gt1 for almost a decade.

Corvette racing has won 71 percent of all events theyve run in since their founding in 1999. Thats 71 races.

[Spiffu]

Won Sebring multiple times, won Le mans multiple times. (just not that past two times)

[79TA]

"Cowardly competition"? Are you serious?

Porsche has 16 overall wins at Le Mans. Ferrari is the most sucessful team in F1 history.

GM has a few class wins at Le Mans.

I don't know...

Are you serious? I don't remember F1 being mentioned in this thread although I do have my doubts about how relevant ultra light open wheel cars are to the world today. Sports car endurance racing is the topic here . . .

Ferrari can't seem to be bothered to seriously compete in sports car racing anymore. Why Porsche is content to be the big fish in the small GT2 pond is beyond me. We're talking about current times, not the past where Ferrari's lost to the likes of GT40's and Cobras. ;-)

[Spiffu]

Porsche overall is the most winning est mark in motorsports history if you're taking all forms of racing it has participated in. And by a wide margin.

Over 28,000 victories in over five decades.

[SHIZL]

hopefully it gets saved somehow love that class, would prefer gt1,gt2 over p1,p2 classes anyday

[79TA]

Porsche overall is the most winning est mark in motorsports history if you're taking all forms of racing it has participated in. And by a wide margin.

Over 28,000 victories in over five decades.

Yep. I think their win in the Dakar back in the day was pretty awesome. It just makes it that much more surprising that they wouldn't step up to GT1. Granted, their Penske P2 cars often give the P1 cars in ALMS a run for their money when the restrictions are right.

[Woohoo]

Are you serious? I don't remember F1 being mentioned in this thread although I do have my doubts about how relevant ultra light open wheel cars are to the world today. Sports car endurance racing is the topic here . . .

Ferrari can't seem to be bothered to seriously compete in sports car racing anymore. Why Porsche is content to be the big fish in the small GT2 pond is beyond me. We're talking about current times, not the past where Ferrari's lost to the likes of GT40's and Cobras. ;-)

So how many overall wins does Ferrari have in Le Mans?
How many for GM? BTW what happened to their LMP1 program

Until you call everyone that doesn't race in a GT class cowards,maybe you should look at what they achieved in the past,what they are doing now and compare that to a GT class.

[79TA]

awwww, boooo hoooo. Ferrari has 9, all well in the past when there were no large North American manufacturer efforts at LeMans. I thought I made it clear that we were talking about modern times. Is that all Ferrari fans can do is reference F1 and the past? Ferrari hasn't had an overall LeMans win since 1965 and that streak of "dominance" was brought to an end by an angry whim of Mr. Ford.

I very much respect various manufacturers for what they have accomplished in the past, but Ferrari rests on its laurels far too much these days considering how highly regarded they are. These prestigious histories make it more surprising that such manufacturers are unwilling to compete at the highest level of GT racing, especially when lowly GM is the only one to compete against in ALMS GT1. They obviously want to be a part of it given their GT2 entries, but they want nothing to do with the 'vettes. I've got to give Prodrive hand for not backing down and getting their reliability up to where they could take back to back GT1 wins at the 24 Hours of LeMans.


GM's LMP1 program was a long shot to begin with and didn't have enough success to continue against the stiff Audi competition. Also, consider GM, along with other major automakers, is in a tight spot financially so it's hard enough for them to support a GT1 team. I'm not calling Audi cowardly at all, rather this is mostly directed towards Porsche and Ferrari, both of which have the resources, history, and prestige that would suggest they dominate GT1. Instead, they are happy to beat up on the small upstart teams like the LG Corvette, Primetime Viper and the Drayson Aston Martin.

http://www.badboyvettes.com/main/content/images/stpetewin.jpg

[HeilSvenska]

GM's LMP1 program was a long shot to begin with and didn't have enough success to continue against the stiff Audi competition.
Maybe Ferrari thought that it just didn't have what it takes to face the stiff Corvette competition and quit. :mrgreen:

Instead, they are happy to beat up on the small upstart teams like the LG Corvette, Primetime Viper and the Drayson Aston Martin.
Ferrari and Porsche have been in GT2 class years before these teams joined. But I see what you mean. Ferrari and Porsche easily have enough resources for full fledged GT1 programs, yet somehow they must consider it less cost-effective.

I really don't know what to make of it. Maserati's ruling FIA series in Europe, but isn't allowed in ACO races. Aston Martin's factory team is extremely competitive, but they only run at Le Mans, presumably due to cost. Corvettes are dominant everywhere as always. I'd be sad to see GT1 class go, but as long as manufacturers still participate, I won't be too disappointed. I wonder what kind of effect this will have on FIA's GT1 class as well.

[79TA]

It wasn't that long ago that Ferrari 550's were competing in GT1 classes.

[silentm]

i'm not sure if it was a 575 or a 550 that competed at the Brno race just a couple of weeks ago