Questions about the UK

[philip]

Is it true the UK doesn't have a football (soccer) team at the Olympics?

[philip]

Is it true UK homeowners can not have a gun in their house for self protection?

[Daggernite]

We aint alloud to own guns for any reason. But we are having a knife problem over here.

[RC45]

What about shotguns for shooting clays?

[Mattk]

All shooters go to the Isle of Man. Actually, the last high profile shootings were actually perpetrated by recreational shooters who went and fetched thier guns from their club and shot people.

[pitfield]

All shooters go to the Isle of Man. Actually, the last high profile shootings were actually perpetrated by recreational shooters who went and fetched thier guns from their club and shot people.

Were they really???

IF you want to own a gun you must prove that you need it and must have your worthiness signed off by a doctor. Then the police need to come over and inspect the gun cabinet you must have installed in your home.

Most gun crime seems to come from the South London area, there's a bit of gnang type action there.

[pitfield]

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/reducing-crime/gun-crime/

[Mattk]

Yeah, I heard Nigel Evans speak recently and he mentioned the shootings in passing when he was talking about recreational shooters in England. I didn't check the accuracy afterwards, but it's not exactly something worth making up.

[philip]

Thanks, for the information.

George Harrison (former Beatle) died of throat cancer, but his battle with cancer took a turn for the worse when a lunatic broke into his walled UK home late at night and stabbed George. His wife hit the intruder over the head with a lamp or she might have also been stabbed. George was a pacifist and would never probably had a gun at home for his safety, even after John Lennon was killed in New York by a lunatic with a handgun.

I just was not sure he could have had a gun if he wanted to.

[Mattk]

I didn't know that! How interesting.

[Pokiou]

I'm just curious as to why you would want to ask such questions.. To me and only me it sounds like your taking the micky out of the UK.

[lincoln]

Is it true UK homeowners can not have a gun in their house for self protection?

We're not allowed to protect ourselves at all. A while back a man broke into a second floor flat to feed his drug habit and in the ensuing fight with the two occupants he fell out of the window to his death. Did they get medals? No, they were charged with murder!

I'm just curious as to why you would want to ask such questions.. To me and only me it sounds like your taking the micky out of the UK.

We deserve it! We've gone from being the greatest country on earth to an international joke. Over here if you are lazy, feckless, immoral, criminal, an illigal immigrant, a terrorist or bad for this country in any way you have 'rights'. If you are a car owning, law abiding, tax paying, hard working benefit to society you only have 'responsibilities', go figure.

:?:

[F250]

I've always been amused by how Clarkson, Hammond and May complain about taxes, congestion charges, traffic cameras, etc. but ultimately accept whatever Her Majesty's Government does.

213% total tax on gasoline in Britain! Bloody hell! We'll get through it somehow!

The English government wouldn't dare pass half the laws, taxes and regulation of the last twenty years if the population was armed.

A police offer friend of mine was assigned as laison to the Secret Service when the President of the United States visited Cody, Wyoming. The guys who ride around in black Suburbans behind the Presidential limousine told him, "We need to set up and maintain a 100 yard firearms-free zone around the President at all times."

My friend replied, "You realize that most Cody residents own rifles that are good to 300 yards or more, right?":laugh:

[F250]

Oops!

[styla21]

We deserve it! We've gone from being the greatest country on earth to an international joke. Over here if you are lazy, feckless, immoral, criminal, an illigal immigrant, a terrorist or bad for this country in any way you have 'rights'. If you are a car owning, law abiding, tax paying, hard working benefit to society you only have 'responsibilities', go figure.
Really well said. I feel sadly that Australia gone in the same direction.

[Mattk]

^Much better! At least we maintain an effective immigration policy, rather than the free-for-all that has permeated Europe.

We're not allowed to protect ourselves at all. A while back a man broke into a second floor flat to feed his drug habit and in the ensuing fight with the two occupants he fell out of the window to his death. Did they get medals? No, they were charged with murder!
I doubt the charges stuck unless they chucked the bloke out the window on purpose out of vengeance.

[RC45]

I doubt the charges stuck unless they chucked the bloke out the window on purpose out of vengeance.

Why wouldn't the "charges stick"? The way I understand it, in the UK if those people had not been home in their flat, the drug addict could have claimed it as his home and just squatted there, leaving them homeless.

My sister has been living in the UK for about 4 years now, and she says she is no longer shocked or appalled by the bizarre erosion of the British society any more - she says its more of a dissappointment.

[pitfield]

Erosion? It's just multicultutalism, diversity and (perhaps over) acceptance.

[Mattk]

The way I understand it, in the UK if those people had not been home in their flat, the drug addict could have claimed it as his home and just squatted there, leaving them homeless.
Need 12 years to pass (JA Pye (Oxford) v Graham) as you can reclaim from a disseissor within the limitations period.

[HeilSvenska]

Erosion? It's just multicultutalism, diversity and (perhaps over) acceptance.
Hahaha. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[RC45]

Need 12 years to pass (JA Pye (Oxford) v Graham) as you can reclaim from a disseissor within the limitations period.

The very idea you have to defend YOUR property from squatters is the ulitmate insult to property ownership or occupation - period.

[MotorWorld]

Erosion? It's just multicultutalism, diversity and (perhaps over) acceptance.

really?

I could of sworn it was the liberal tree hugging lentilist green lesbian hippies who had caused it to become like this >

Over here if you are lazy, feckless, immoral, criminal, an illigal immigrant, a terrorist or bad for this country in any way you have 'rights'. If you are a car owning, law abiding, tax paying, hard working benefit to society you only have 'responsibilities', and can expect to get taxed to hell at every possible turn by the imbeciles calling themselves the government, so that they can pay for little johhny who robbed / raped / murdered to have a free holiday to disneyland and a plasma TV

:-(

[MotorWorld]

Is it true the UK doesn't have a football (soccer) team at the Olympics?

back to original question yes its true, because

at the olympics its "Great Britain" , which encompasses England, Wales, Scotland

but in the football World Cup England, Wales, Scotland all have seperate teams, and they think by having a Great Britain football team at the Olympics then they would be forced to do the same for the World Cup

stupid but true

[Mattk]

The very idea you have to defend YOUR property from squatters is the ulitmate insult to property ownership or occupation - period.
Actually, adverse possession encourages productive use of land. In any case, if you are in the right, the remedy of self-help is avaliable, so you can drag them out yourself, with reasonable force, obviously.

[RC45]

Actually, adverse possession encourages productive use of land. In any case, if you are in the right, the remedy of self-help is avaliable, so you can drag them out yourself, with reasonable force, obviously.

No it does not encourage the "productive use of land".

It simply encourages the lazy and criminal to take over empty housing.

You might have to "occupy" the house for 12 years to "take over the deed" but you can simply walk up to ANY empty dwelling and move in. What a concept.. free housing without having to work a day in your life? ANd then you can go get the electricity and gas turned on - and you are protected by the very laws that do not protect the property owners.

It is then an UPHILL and TIME CONSUMING battle fo rthe RIGHTFUL OWNER to evict the squatter.

This is the reality of such stupid legislation.

If I own a property and choose to leave it vacant, then why shoudl I NOT be able to with MY PROPERTY as I please?

You are still young and gullible matt, and still green and idealistic, but one day after you become a wealthy barrister/attorney/lawyer and you own substantial assets and have a large income, you will suddenly become aware of the threats to YOUR assets and change your tune ;)

Oh to be so young and inncocent again :P

In the meantime, here is some light reading to better arm you with knowledge of your squatters rights.

http://www.urban75.com/Action/squat.html

[Alelanza]

"The owners are supposed to show that they have a right to the place and you don’t, and there are various ways of claiming that they haven’t proved it, haven’t gone through the procedures properly etc. "

LOL! madness!!

" Don’t tell them you’re squatting as they are not obliged to supply you and are increasingly reluctant to do so. Phone ASS for more information if you have problems. "

No shit!
Is this for real? i mean, they are called ASS.....
Certain bits of Trainspotting now make a lot more sense. This is 40% cool, 50% mad and 10% scary

Where i live, you basically can kill anyone inside your premises and claim he/she was trespassing and unless there is proof against you, you will walk free.
Not long ago an inmigrant (not that that should matter) jumped a fence into a car dealership at night, a couple rottweilers grabbed a hold of him and local police couldn't do anything harmful to the dogs as that would have been damage against private property. They tried to help him w/o harming the dogs, needless to say he didn't make it. Mind you, local police only have guns, no fancy taser or the like.

[RC45]

^^ crazy isnt it?

The law actually encourages lazy, layabout, criminal junkies to seek out free digs rather than try make a living ;)

[philip]

I'm just curious as to why you would want to ask such questions.. To me and only me it sounds like your taking the micky out of the UK.

No offense intended. I just finished a non fiction book that takes place in England, I was just making sure, I wasn't being lied to.

Next question, do the police need a warrant issued by a judge showing probably cause, to enter and search you home. Or can they simply present themselves at your door and search you house?

This involves Mike Jaggar being arrested in the '60's for drug possession. Apparently according to the book an aggressive Police officer made a name for himself by searching famous peoples homes looking for (and finding) drugs (primarily grass).

The book made you feel he did not have a warrant. He just simply found out the addresses of Rockers and showed up and searched their homes without any real probably cause.

[F250]

Wow! A story with Mike Jagger and probably cause!:laugh:

[Mattk]

RC, I agree with your sentiments regarding squatters, a practice which I think is disgusting, but the law stems from old traditions. Back in simpler times, people did not own lots of bits of land. If they did, they probably didn't care about the bits squatters were on. If you left your land vacant and didn't use it, that's unproductive. If someone lives there are maintains the property for you, that's considered healthy (again, per Pye). If you spent 12 years not even bothering to even find out about the condition of your land, let alone make productive use of it, then it would seem you don't want it. If you didn't bother to secure the premises, then that is just dumb.

Also, most squatters leave if they are asked to. That website is a bit dumb. It says there are loads of places to squat, yet tries to put squatters through lots of trouble so they can stay. If an owner rocks up with his certificate of title and a couple of sheriff's constables, I don't think a lot of squatters would

"The owners are supposed to show that they have a right to the place and you don’t, and there are various ways of claiming that they haven’t proved it, haven’t gone through the procedures properly etc. "
Possession gives title against all the world defeasible only by those who have better title. If you own the place, you are untouchable, but you still have to prove you own it, which is pretty easy.

Case law in the UK tends to be softer than in most other countries. For instance, it is easier to defend charges using drunkedness as a defence. Which is silly. No wonder there are so many football hooligans there.

Next question, do the police need a warrant issued by a judge showing probably cause, to enter and search you home. Or can they simply present themselves at your door and search you house?
Policemen cannot enter private property without a warrant unless you let them in, in which case you are either dumb or innocent, and therefore either deserve to go down or have nothing to worry about. The only exception is if they reasonably believe that a crime is taking place or about to take place on your property or they need to cross your property to stop a crime happening.

[philip]

Heres a link to the story about Mick Jagger. In the story they said they had a warrant. In the US I would think you would need a witness coming forward to get a warrant or a sale at the home by an undercover agent.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2004/02/23/711/16467

I believe the same officer also raided George Harrison and Kieth Richards.

[Mattk]

"Marianne, Marianne, don't open the door. It's the police. They're after the weed."

Pretty decent evidence to just bust them right there and then.

[nthfinity]

"Marianne, Marianne, don't open the door. It's the police. They're after the weed."

Pretty decent evidence to just bust them right there and then.

so, why is it they came to the door to begin with? That would fall under entrapment here...

[Mattk]

Well, they had a warrant, didn't they?

[nthfinity]

Well, they had a warrant, didn't they?

after already trespassing without cause.

[Mattk]

^How were they trespassing? They were stooging around outside the house. The warrant was shown to Jagger. Totally above board. The warrant may not have been bona fide, and given policing tactics of those days, it probably wasn't bona fide, but nothing in the story suggests that.

[lincoln]

Next question, do the police need a warrant issued by a judge showing probably cause, to enter and search you home. Or can they simply present themselves at your door and search you house?

In a word, NO!

Ths is from the Times July 20, 2008

"There are more than 1,000 laws and regulations which permit officials to force entry into homes, cars and business premises, a report commissioned by Gordon Brown has found.
The publication of the first comprehensive list of laws available to police, council staff and other inspectors will renew concerns about the erosion of civil liberties."

The Times, April 23, 2007

Harriet the Cow must have been surprised when at 9:30am on January 10 her peaceful field in Herefordshire was invaded by ten government officials and 12 police officers. This hit squad had erected a road block to seal off the area and used bolt-cutters to force their way into the enclosure. They had not asked permission to enter, nor did they need to. Under the Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathies Regulations 2006 - one of the State’s 266 statutory powers to enter private property - they were perfectly within their rights to force their way on to private land without the occupier’s consent and without a magistrate’s warrant.

I could go on and on but you get the idea. At least I'm still free to write this (looks nervously over his shoulder).:crying:

[Mattk]

One would have thought the owner rather relieved at the alacrity with which the authorities responded to the potential threat of the transmission of bovine spongiform encephalitis, which when manifested in humans can result in the crippling Creutzfeld Jacob Disease.

But whatever happened to manners? Power or no power, it's pretty rude to just barge in. If they'd bothered to tell the owner that he had a potentially diseased cow in his possession, he'd be more than willing to assist.