Mass Produced Carbon Fiber

[gobs3z]

Carbon-fiber is seen by many in the auto industry as one of the most effective ways of reducing vehicle weight and improving economy (http://www.motorauthority.com/news/industry/report-japanese-firms-developing-carbon-fiber-for-mass-production/#)and emissions levels, but the relative expense of the material means that it’s still reserved for only a handful of high-end production cars. BMW has effectively used carbon-fiber roofs for its M cars to help lower their center of gravity, and Nissan and GM have used the composite material to help save weight for the GT-R and ZR1 supercars.

For most carmakers, mainstream carbon-fiber use is still several years away but a number of Japanese firms, including carbon-specialists Toray Industries and Mitsubishi Rayon, are working closely with Nissan and Honda to develop a new carbon-fiber material for use in mass-produced cars.
According to the Nikkei, the Japanese government will also provide close to $20 million over the next five years for the project. The final goal is to be able to mass produce the material by the mid-2010s and to make vehicles 40% lighter than current models.
Toray currently supplies Nissan with carbon-fiber for its GT-R, 350Z and Infiniti G35 (http://www.motorauthority.com/news/industry/report-japanese-firms-developing-carbon-fiber-for-mass-production/#) and G37 models.
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/industry/report-japanese-firms-developing-carbon-fiber-for-mass-production/#more-6595

The reason i think this is news worthy is that if they can start producing lighter weight cars than we can see a revolution in new sports cars that previously weren't affordable to the likes of me :-) (college loans). But chances are they will find a way to make them heavy again because of "safety" reasons.:thumbdown: Am i being toooo optimistic?

[nthfinity]

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/industry/report-japanese-firms-developing-carbon-fiber-for-mass-production/#more-6595

The reason i think this is news worthy is that if they can start producing lighter weight cars than we can see a revolution in new sports cars that previously weren't affordable to the likes of me :-) (college loans). But chances are they will find a way to make them heavy again because of "safety" reasons.:thumbdown: Am i being toooo optimistic?

History repeats itself in so many ways. I have a few 25 year old auto rags lying around, one of them has interviews with all the heavy hitters of the auto industry asking them what kind of car will exist in 20 years (aka, 1990's)

By and large, they individually said that cars would be getting lighter, and use of light weight materials would replace steel. Smaller cars that are narrower would replace big wide cars, because narrow cars are more aero efficient. These two factors combined would improve fuel efficiency.

Keeping in mind, this was the thought of the 55 mph national speed limit era, and the self imposed gas lines.

DOT crash standards have improved dramatically.. however, there is a point where the government oversteps it's bounds there IMO....

Crashes are now supposed to keep unbelted passengers alive in frontal / side impacts.. not just alive, but w/out serious trauma. Is it not already the law to be belted?

Padestrian safety - crock of shit from the start. The small portion of people who are hit by cars are most often hit by old POS junkers. Trying to affect .1% of the .1% is costing the industry hundreds of millions of $, while style is being hugely affected, not to mention, aerodynamics are being brutalized by increasing the frontal area of the car.

The more this happens, the more the gov. will regulate everything, including the idiot behind the wheel of the car. There will be a point when we aren't allowed to drive our cars anymore...

The car is the symbol of freedom that the west created; and Henry Ford made available to any working man. I fear the day that freedom is taken away.

There is "hope" ;) Gob3z.... use of CF in boring cars will reduce the price of aftermarket components... ;) So making our old yesteryear sports car slighter won't be so expensive :P

[zenvar]

History repeats itself in so many ways. I have a few 25 year old auto rags lying around, one of them has interviews with all the heavy hitters of the auto industry asking them what kind of car will exist in 20 years (aka, 1990's)

By and large, they individually said that cars would be getting lighter, and use of light weight materials would replace steel. Smaller cars that are narrower would replace big wide cars, because narrow cars are more aero efficient. These two factors combined would improve fuel efficiency.

Keeping in mind, this was the thought of the 55 mph national speed limit era, and the self imposed gas lines.

DOT crash standards have improved dramatically.. however, there is a point where the government oversteps it's bounds there IMO....

Crashes are now supposed to keep unbelted passengers alive in frontal / side impacts.. not just alive, but w/out serious trauma. Is it not already the law to be belted?

Padestrian safety - crock of shit from the start. The small portion of people who are hit by cars are most often hit by old POS junkers. Trying to affect .1% of the .1% is costing the industry hundreds of millions of $, while style is being hugely affected, not to mention, aerodynamics are being brutalized by increasing the frontal area of the car.

The more this happens, the more the gov. will regulate everything, including the idiot behind the wheel of the car. There will be a point when we aren't allowed to drive our cars anymore...

The car is the symbol of freedom that the west created; and Henry Ford made available to any working man. I fear the day that freedom is taken away.

There is "hope" ;) Gob3z.... use of CF in boring cars will reduce the price of aftermarket components... ;) So making our old yesteryear sports car slighter won't be so expensive :P

I so agree with you...not saying the government is the only evil here, but they are the ones with the power to enforce their say. I would love for cars to lighter, not just for the mileage savings, but lighter cars are fun to throw around :-D

[gobs3z]

I'm glad you're seeing some positives out of this, but you're right. The ignorance of out government is screwing crap up when the real problem is how freaking easy it is to get a license.

[pagani]

I'm glad you're seeing some positives out of this, but you're right. The ignorance of out government is screwing crap up when the real problem is how freaking easy it is to get a license.
Getting the driving license in the netherlands is much harder.

[zenvar]

I'm glad you're seeing some positives out of this, but you're right. The ignorance of out government is screwing crap up when the real problem is how freaking easy it is to get a license.


Yeah, it is scary how easy it is to get a license here. Or even to keep one. But the chances of that changing are slim...how many people are going to vote to make their lives harder, even if it makes sense? The whole situation is made even scarier by the fact that I have niece that is going to start driving here in a month or so. Hope for the best, is about all you can do.

[Pokiou]

History repeats itself in so many ways. I have a few 25 year old auto rags lying around, one of them has interviews with all the heavy hitters of the auto industry asking them what kind of car will exist in 20 years (aka, 1990's)

By and large, they individually said that cars would be getting lighter, and use of light weight materials would replace steel. Smaller cars that are narrower would replace big wide cars, because narrow cars are more aero efficient. These two factors combined would improve fuel efficiency.

Keeping in mind, this was the thought of the 55 mph national speed limit era, and the self imposed gas lines.

DOT crash standards have improved dramatically.. however, there is a point where the government oversteps it's bounds there IMO....

Crashes are now supposed to keep unbelted passengers alive in frontal / side impacts.. not just alive, but w/out serious trauma. Is it not already the law to be belted?

Padestrian safety - crock of shit from the start. The small portion of people who are hit by cars are most often hit by old POS junkers. Trying to affect .1% of the .1% is costing the industry hundreds of millions of $, while style is being hugely affected, not to mention, aerodynamics are being brutalized by increasing the frontal area of the car.

The more this happens, the more the gov. will regulate everything, including the idiot behind the wheel of the car. There will be a point when we aren't allowed to drive our cars anymore...

The car is the symbol of freedom that the west created; and Henry Ford made available to any working man. I fear the day that freedom is taken away.

There is "hope" ;) Gob3z.... use of CF in boring cars will reduce the price of aftermarket components... ;) So making our old yesteryear sports car slighter won't be so expensive :P

you forgot the
/end rant

[Evo8]

What I don't get is what's stopping them from using fiberglass, right now.

Fiberglass is significantly cheaper - as low as $40/kg, as opposed to over $300/kg for carbon fibre - and only about 25% weaker, which is still much stronger and lighter than aluminium and titanium.

[nthfinity]

This qoute is from todays autoblog:

If you were looking at carbon fiber as the magical lightweight solution to the parallel automotive woes of low power-to-weight ratios and high fuel consumption, we have some potentially disappointing news for you. Two of the world's largest suppliers of carbon fiber have announced that they are raising their prices. And not by a little, either, with the going rate for the high-tech material rising by 10 to 30 percent in one shot.

The simultaneous announcement from Toray Industries Inc. (the #1 supplier of carbon fiber) and Mitsubishi Rayon Co. (the third largest) marks the first time both companies have universally raised their prices at the same time. The development would border on price-fixing if not for the fact that the second biggest carbon fiber manufacturer, Teijin Ltd., didn't participate. However Teijin is expected to announce its own price hike sometime this week, as well.

[RC45]

^^ its a good thing I got my order in for the CF undertray and wing then ;)

[79TA]

How carbon neutral is carbon fiber production? Perhaps some greenie will start figuring out how long it would take the weight savings to make up for its carbon footprint that resulted from production. Well that was cynical. blah, lol

[FoxFour]

How carbon neutral is carbon fiber production? Perhaps some greenie will start figuring out how long it would take the weight savings to make up for its carbon footprint that resulted from production. Well that was cynical. blah, lol
It's not very carbon neutral at all. A lot of the sealants and other chemical used to create as well as the sealants used to seal the parts between dissimilar material are not earth-friendly at all. Matter of fact, a lot of the sealers used are highly carcinogenic.
Also, breathing the carbon fiber dust can get in your lungs and stay there for the rest of your life. Not of importance in the finished product, but when making parts, just think how much dust can get in the air. Hopefully, a lot of companies are investing in proper filtration equipment.