[SPOILER] 2008 German GP

[blue8]

Round 10: Santander German Grand Prix
Hockenheim, Germany

Once again, rain is predicted for the race! I really hope someone other than Hamilton will win a wet race :mrgreen:

Practice 1 Times (damp track)
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:15.537 22
2. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:15.666 + 0.129 19
3. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:15.796 + 0.259 22
4. Alonso Renault (B) 1:16.163 + 0.626 22
5. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:16.327 + 0.790 23
6. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:16.606 + 1.069 27
7. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:16.618 + 1.081 25
8. Heidfeld BMW Sauber (B) 1:16.719 + 1.182 20
9. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:16.821 + 1.284 26
10. Piquet Renault (B) 1:17.063 + 1.526 26
11. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:17.108 + 1.571 18
12. Button Honda (B) 1:17.131 + 1.594 28
13. Glock Toyota (B) 1:17.185 + 1.648 28
14. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:17.268 + 1.731 11
15. Fisichella Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:17.471 + 1.934 30
16. Barrichello Honda (B) 1:17.500 + 1.963 24
17. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:17.556 + 2.019 29
18. Sutil Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:17.784 + 2.247 29
19. Kubica BMW Sauber (B) 1:18.779 + 3.242 8
20. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:21.506 + 5.969 16

In other news, Vettel will officially replace Coulthard in Red Bull next year.

[5vz-fe]

I just hope Ferrari won't screw up again on the strategy.

[blue8]

They would've learned by now probably. The Italian press already flamed them for the last race

Hamilton fastest again (this time on a dry track)
Judging by the practice sessions and the Silverstone race, McLaren have gained some speed (or Ferrari just lost some). Either way, it could make the championship race even more exciting. Ferrari will be seriously regretting the many point-scoring opportunities they missed.

Practice 2 Times:
Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:15.025 37
2. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:15.722 + 0.697 31
3. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:15.760 + 0.735 34
4. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:15.990 + 0.965 37
5. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:16.017 + 0.992 25
6. Alonso Renault (B) 1:16.230 + 1.205 38
7. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:16.355 + 1.330 41
8. Kubica BMW Sauber (B) 1:16.363 + 1.338 36
9. Heidfeld BMW Sauber (B) 1:16.377 + 1.352 40
10. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:16.378 + 1.353 35
11. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:16.422 + 1.397 41
12. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:16.530 + 1.505 45
13. Button Honda (B) 1:16.542 + 1.517 38
14. Barrichello Honda (B) 1:16.677 + 1.652 28
15. Piquet Renault (B) 1:16.734 + 1.709 42
16. Glock Toyota (B) 1:16.781 + 1.756 44
17. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:16.829 + 1.804 21
18. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:16.860 + 1.835 14
19. Sutil Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:17.008 + 1.983 39
20. Fisichella Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:17.047 + 2.022 37

[styla21]

Where's the updates? This thread should be pumping, but seems deserted..

Qualifying was interesting.. As a BMW fan I can't say I was stoked about it. Can't wait for the race!

[Bizi Jones]

well for this thread to actually thrive there's gotta be live coverage of the event....and it seems like that's not the case....TSN is showing the Open, Speed is on FOX again...:rolleyes:

and the other channel is RDS, its in french and I don't get it...heh not that I care to get up at 7 to watch it anyways ;):P

edit...woo hoo...TSN alternate feed is showing it....all is well again :D

[styla21]

No, there just has to be general interest in the race, the teams, even F1 in general.. Which there usually is around here. With only a few hours till race time, I just thought there would be more banter and suggestion going on.

[Kissyface]

If Lewis gets a better start than the rest of the first two rows he can walk away with this race, wet or dry but if someone else gets him at the start he will have to reign in his enthusiasm and hope someone else makes an error of some kind that he can capitalize on if he is to prevail.

Felipe's starting fuel load and tire choice could make the difference between 1st and elsewhere. If he starts on softs and can get Lewis in the first corner regardless of his fuel load (within reason) he could take the win.

Heikki had better make a good start considering he has Trulli beside him and Alonso behind him. Both usually make good starts and have the potential to harry him witless if he loses focus.

Trulli is having a really good year and rarely fails to capitalize when he qualifies well. He might make the podium from 4th like he did in France.

Alonso is pushing himself and Renault to make a decent showing this year. He has to be careful not to push too hard. He has qualified well but the end results aren't there.

Kimi, Kimi, Kimi. Don't know what to say really except that he had better find the setup and race to win.

I don't want to leave Kubica out just because he didn't qualify well but BMW is struggling here and there are two Red Bulls and a Toro Rosso close behind who have a good opportunity to steal their thunder.

All in all it has the makings to be one of the most exciting races of the year and could be the turning point for any one of the title contenders. I can hardly wait!

[styla21]

I knew I could count on you Kissy :-P
Agree with your thoughts entirely. I hadn't considered what you said, about Heiki having Alonso / Trulli breathing down his neck.. That could create an interesting start.

I am quite sure that there will be some drama in the event of rain!:twisted: The championship points further makes every passing move, every understeered run-off, every mis-calculation so vital.
Edge-of-the-seat race coming up!

[yellky]

todays morning GP2 race was dry and sunny - no sign of rain :/
too bad, 'cause in the dry race i guess it would be very hard for KUB to jump into top 5..

well, at least i hope the start would be interesting - i'd love to see some HAM-MAS-KOV fight ;)

[yellky]

hell yeah!
KUB is 4th :)
(passed RAI on the start and then both ALO & TRU on the 1st lap)

[go1d1e]

Big wreck by Glock.. Did anyone notice the engine was still running after that huge rear end hit?

[yellky]

HAM goes for 3 stops!
he's still on hard tyres after 2nd pitstop, so it's gonna be interesting :)

and KUB is (virtually) 3rd :thumbup:
(passed KOV in the pits)

[yellky]

shit, McLarens are really fast today - KOV passed KUB :/

go1d1e :: yep, the engine was still running..
good to see GLO's ok

[yellky]

MAS goes for the win! :thumbup:
HAM was behind KOV but (what a big surprise!) passed him easily - team orders? of course not, its illegal..

btw, is PIQ gonna pit or not?

[yellky]

HAM is flying, nice pass over MAS..
and now over PIQ and is 1st again.

RAI just woke up and passed KUB :/
HEI's 4th

[Kissyface]

Oh, the pure joy of seeing Lewis overtake Felipe then Piquet for the lead when all seemed lost. It's not over yet but I couldn't resist an impulse post of sheer awe.

[yellky]

i messed up - HAM didnt pit under SC :)

anyways, what a race!
PIQ 2nd!
HEI 4th!
KUB 7th :/

[xecutioner]

glocks crash was damn scarey and its good to hear that hes ok but damn that was crazy

lewis and mclaren were way to fast for everyone else in today races, a few races back it was mclaren struggling and ferrari so much quicker, its been reversed now with mclaren going really quick and ferrari struggling really bad

nice team orders by mclaren to let lewis threw which kinda sucked but like i said lewis was to quick for everyone and had a good win but if leiws doesnt take out this years world title then i will be very dissappointed with him bc hes a class above anyone else atm until ferrari get there shit together

piquet haha wow great run and very well done in doing better then alonso

massa ummm haha i dunno wats up with this guy and ferrari in the last 2 races//he basically gave the race to lewis at the end and thats it

heidfeld was great in this race..i hope to see more of that

hiekki drove like usual with lil moments in the race where he was quick while lewis was in the pits

kimmi? haha same thing with this guy..i dunno wats up with him n ferrari...ferrari need to take there heads out of there asses or they will be the 3rd quick team after BMW

lol alonso's day was funny..hes lil fight with vettel was a classic and watchin alonso spin was great to

if lewis crashed in a race i reckon that the 2 idiots in ITV would of cried and left the commentary booth

next race has to be one of the most boring tracks in all of F1 racing, get rid of hungary plz

by the way thank god for safety cars which bring back life to a boring race

[Jona]

Heikki just walked past a finnish reporter... "I have nothing to say. I'm not allowed to race for real." (HAM "passing" him)

He was ANGRY.

[yellky]

yeah, i pray for rain in hungaroring (or else i'm not gonna watch that boring race ;))

[yellky]

provisional results:
(should we expect any changes/penalties - VET for fighting with ALO out of pits?, McLaren for team orders?)

Pos :: No :: Driver :: Team :: Laps :: Time/Retired :: Grid :: Pts
1 :: 22 :: Lewis Hamilton :: McLaren-Mercedes :: 67 :: Winner :: 1 :: 10
2 :: 6 :: Nelsinho Piquet :: Renault :: 67 :: +5.5 secs :: 17 :: 8
3 :: 2 :: Felipe Massa :: Ferrari :: 67 :: +9.3 secs :: 2 :: 6
4 :: 3 :: Nick Heidfeld :: BMW Sauber :: 67 :: +9.8 secs :: 12 :: 5
5 :: 23 :: Heikki Kovalainen :: McLaren-Mercedes :: 67 :: +12.4 secs :: 3 :: 4
6 :: 1 :: Kimi Räikkönen :: Ferrari :: 67 :: +14.4 secs :: 6 :: 3
7 :: 4 :: Robert Kubica :: BMW Sauber :: 67 :: +22.6 secs :: 7 :: 2
8 :: 15 :: Sebastian Vettel :: STR-Ferrari :: 67 :: +33.2 secs :: 9 :: 1
9 :: 11 :: Jarno Trulli :: Toyota :: 67 :: +37.1 secs :: 4
10 :: 7 :: Nico Rosberg :: Williams-Toyota :: 67 :: +37.6 secs :: 13
11 :: 5 :: Fernando Alonso :: Renault :: 67 :: +38.6 secs :: 5
12 :: 14 :: Sebastien Bourdais :: STR-Ferrari :: 67 :: +39.1 secs :: 15
13 :: 9 :: David Coulthard :: Red Bull-Renault :: 67 :: +54.9 secs :: 10
14 :: 21 :: Giancarlo Fisichella :: Force India-Ferrari :: 67 :: +59.0 secs :: 20
15 :: 8 :: Kazuki Nakajima :: Williams-Toyota :: 67 :: +60.0 secs :: 16
16 :: 20 :: Adrian Sutil :: Force India-Ferrari :: 67 :: +69.4 secs :: 19
17 :: 16 :: Jenson Button :: Honda :: 66 :: +1 Lap :: 14
Ret :: 17 :: Rubens Barrichello :: Honda :: 50 :: +17 Laps :: 18
Ret :: 10 :: Mark Webber :: Red Bull-Renault :: 40 :: +27 Laps :: 8
Ret :: 12 :: Timo Glock :: Toyota :: 35 :: Accident :: 11

[toffytofik]

Coulthard should've left before the season start. Apparently he's too old to see other cars on the track. Or too mad?

[Kissyface]

Heikki just walked past a finnish reporter... "I have nothing to say. I'm not allowed to race for real." (HAM "passing" him)

He was ANGRY.


It seemed to me Lewis was visibly restrained on the podium compared to his usual victory jubilation and in the press conference he tap danced somewhat unsuccessfully around the insinuation of team orders by Peter Windsor. It is my belief Lewis would rather have raced Heikki for the position and been more satisfied finishing second or third. It isn't the first time "team persuasion" has been used and I'm sure it has got to be a bitter pill to swallow for everyone involved who has a conscience. What would happen if Lewis refused the open door around Heikki? What if Heikki refused to let him pass? It's all very dodgy and I don't like it. Nonetheless, Hamilton did pass Massa and Piquet fairly which was exciting, but there has got to be some serious tension in the McLaren garage now. The team principals hold all the cards and are going to do what's in their best interest as a matter of instinct sometimes to their eventual detriment. It will be interesting to see the fallout in the days to come.

On another subject, Alonso did just as I thought he would. Tried too hard and got outshined by his less experienced teammate. He is his own worst enemy and I will be disappointed if he gets a better drive next year, he doesn't deserve it.

I was pleased to see Kubica get a good start. Glock's unfortunate accident was the wild card that made all the difference for several drivers better or worse.

This race is going to take some serious study to get a full account of everyone's performance but safe to say for now that McLaren were ready for this one and Ferrari were not. I believe the Prancing Horse will fare better in Hungary.

I really like the Official Formula 1 website results archive but one thing that would be nice to see in the Pit Stop and Qualification listings is to have a notation for the tire compound.

[styla21]

Kissy. You just posted more eloquently, everything I was about to type and more.

Frustrating race as a BMW fan.:-( Glad Glock is ok. :-)
I didn't really understand the ITV commentators putting shit on Massa; he still ended up with a podium. Drivers have to draw a line over how hard to fight - as it can end in a DNF if they get too close.... As experienced in this race, and every other race of the season.

Do you guys have anything further concerning Heiki's orders to move over? I.e his comment, or others commentary on it? Interesting..

[xecutioner]

Kissy. You just posted more eloquently, everything I was about to type and more.

Frustrating race as a BMW fan.:-( Glad Glock is ok. :-)
I didn't really understand the ITV commentators putting shit on Massa; he still ended up with a podium. Drivers have to draw a line over how hard to fight - as it can end in a DNF if they get too close.... As experienced in this race, and every other race of the season.

Do you guys have anything further concerning Heiki's orders to move over? I.e his comment, or others commentary on it? Interesting..

if massa was british then they wouldnt of talked about him like they did

i would of loved to see heiki and lewis race

its not the 1st time we have seen him move over this year

i remember the days when ppl where talking about this when ferrari where doing it

i guess mclaren is next

[blue8]

Although I feel bad that Glock has been in another horrible accident this year, it really was the turning point of a boring race. Once the safety car went out, things got more interesting (but not much really). Even the press conference guy admitted that!

Hamilton passing Kovalainen easily did seem suspicious. Next round will be the Hungarian GP and as you remember that was McLaren's meltdown moment lat year with the qualifying pit-stop fiasco. Could it happen again? Team orders or not, I hope the Finn does better in the coming races (but it must be hard when he's clearly no. 2). I got this from another forum. I can't confirm the source.

Kovalainen swallowed the team order (translated from his Finnish interview)
20.07.2008 19:45

Heikki Kovalainen admitted that McLaren said to him that he should let Hambo in front of him on the 51st lap. Kovalainen wasn't angry though.

- It was clear to me that he was faster than me and I couldn't have kept him behind me for many laps. Lewis had a chance to win the race so I have nothing to complain about. I just have to get my own speed better. It's the only medicine, Kovalainen said to MTV3

I'm bothered by McLaren's pace. How did they get so much pace almost suddenly?

I desperately wish for rain in Hungary.

[gobs3z]

I just need to vent on how dumb of a move it was for Massa to think taking the outside line would be a good idea to keep Hami behind him, and then Piquet makes the same mistake. Just a little aggravated.

[SHIZL]

whats up with heikkis car why is his finishes not reflecting his teamates, hamilton was fast there today there was no stopping him his pace was unreal, i think if it stays dry in hungary massa will take it what happend to kimi ?

[5vz-fe]

I am quite disappointed. Ferrari seems to be not improving as fast as the other teams.

[Pokiou]

I'm bothered by McLaren's pace. How did they get so much pace almost suddenly?

I desperately wish for rain in Hungary.


The same way ferrari dominated the last 5 yeats mate.. Its now McLarens time to shine ;)

oh and Hamilton is a awesome driver!

[styla21]

I just need to vent on how dumb of a move it was for Massa to think taking the outside line would be a good idea to keep Hami behind him, and then Piquet makes the same mistake. Just a little aggravated.Agreed. Was he trying to avoid an accident? It was quite weak...

I am quite disappointed. Ferrari seems to be not improving as fast as the other teams.
There hasn't been strong races to demonstrate consistency though.. Rain in Monaco, Rain in Silverstone.. Germany, yes, Ferrari wern't the fastest.. It will be interesting to see how they respond moving forward; a lot can happen in two weeks before a race.

Let's not forget Ferrari were blitzing it, and Mclaren struggling severlely at the start of the season until recently...:-)

[5vz-fe]

Yeah, I am having my fingers crossed. Really want Kimi to win the title back to back.

[Pokiou]

I dont know about you guys BUT i move over in the free way if i beleive the car behind me is faster...
It's commen sense to move out the way of a faster car or even a faster team mate.. WHY in gods name would you wanna hold them back..

[styla21]

I dont know about you guys BUT i move over in the free way if i beleive the car behind me is faster...

Because these guys are racing, on a racetrack, and not on the freeway.
The object of the race is to win, not to come second.
The subject of team orders is an ambiguous one, and likely not one to be resolved easily.

[go1d1e]

Didnt Piquet say something about not putting up a fight incase they took each other out? He said something in the interview after. Also mentioned that if they argued on the too much then massa would of caught up and he could of lost more than one place. Logical thinking..

[styla21]

Didnt Piquet say something about not putting up a fight incase they took each other out? He said something in the interview after. Also mentioned that if they argued on the too much then massa would of caught up and he could of lost more than one place. Logical thinking..
Yes, that is true. Needlessly / aimlessly fighting through corners that potentially will ruin both your races is not considered intelligent racing.

However, defending your line when you are perfectly able to do so is a different scenario. Heiki was asked by his team-mates not to do this, and that is what is being discussed.

[Pokiou]

Because these guys are racing, on a racetrack, and not on the freeway.
The object of the race is to win, not to come second.
The subject of team orders is an ambiguous one, and likely not one to be resolved easily.

who said there was team orders?? you speculating... i believe he came to the conclusion to move over for his team mate.

[gobs3z]

who said there was team orders?? you speculating... i believe he came to the conclusion to move over for his team mate.

Because Ron Dennis was obviously giving the orders with his reactions shown on the tele. Heiki apparently would say in interviews that he was faster than Hami, and would race him, not give up his position.

[Pokiou]

he didnt say anything.... he said i saw hamilton was quicker so i moved over.